12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Krytie]

As I mentioned on the previous page, as far as I can remember a male warden can tell Zevran quite frankly that they are not interested in men, regardless of whether they are an elf or not. It would be strange if all elves are bisexual but PC elves can be an exception, and far more likely that the Devs just made a lot of bisexual elven NPC's and no straight or gay ones, which is why we need to start seeing some variety. 

 

That just reminded me that I hope, if we end up in a "gotta turn em down" situation, you have options. I don't want to say I'm not interested in "gender" when I am, but not that particular person.

[Ianamus]

That just reminded me that I hope, if we end up in a "gotta turn em down" situation, you have options. I don't want to say I'm not interested in "gender" when I am, but not that particular person.

 

This was my problem with turning Anders down in DA2. As a male Hawke It felt like I had the option to either flirt with him or implying that I was not interested in men and get angry about his flirting, neither of which fit if I wanted to go on to romance Fenris. 

 

I have nothing against "I'm not interested in x" responses, so long as more neutral rejections are available as well. 

[dragondreamer]

Hah, not really serious about this but...

 

Huon and Nessa are married, and in an o/s relationship. Whether that means they are straight or bisexual, without comfirmation, it is up in the air. However, it is still an opposite sex relationship among two elves.

(and I probably have spelled their names wrong. )

 

Jethann was married to a woman and we know he's totally straight.     I could argue that most elves are bisexual while a few are either gay or straight.  Dalish and City Elves have arranged marriages for reproductive purposes.  There's more than one example from both the Dalish and City camps of elves unhappy with whomever they were hitched up with.  

[Maria Caliban]

How do you know I'm not talking about my female Warden's inability to flirt with a female npc?

A female Warden doesn't flirt with another woman, so that other woman must be straight?

I specifically picked male because Cullen and Anders seem to be the go-to 'bisexuality can only be a retcon' characters.
 

Given the way that game was made, I think it's not an illogical deduction that if you have a female warden who can sleep with a male npc and a male warden can't sleep with that same npc, the devs intended that npc to be straight. I'm not saying that is in any way, shape, or form, a reflection of reality, but I would wager it is a reflection of the dev's intentions.

The developer's intention has changed every game of the series.

It would be strange if all elves are bisexual but PC elves can be an exception...

Unless this were a BioWare game where the PC is almost always an exception.

[Deviija]

They never said there would be lesbians, gay men, straight men, or straight women. They said there would be straight, gay, and bisexual characters.

If there's a gay man and a straight woman, but everyone else is bisexual, that would fit.

 

This is something I have been pointing out and reminding folks too in various spaces.  It is worth keeping in mind.  The comment is saying there will be straight, bi, and gay characters in general -- not that there is an equal spread among them.  It *could* very well be an equal spread.  But the comment can still hold true even if they only had one bi woman and a lesbian woman, and all straight men.  Not that I'd want that whatsoever.  

 

 

 

Why is elves being bisexual a bad formula? They're not humans, perhaps that's the way elven sexuality works.

 

It wouldn't be a bad formula to with elves, imo.  It could also work for humans as well, being that this is a fantasy world in a fantasy setting that is not Earth, and thus does not need to follow any of our sexual orientation ratios.  

[Maria Caliban]

It wouldn't be a bad formula to with elves, imo.  It could also work for humans as well, being that this is a fantasy world in a fantasy setting that is not Earth, and thus does not need to follow any of our sexual orientation ratios.

I've thought the same, but whenever I suggest people in Thedas are largely bisexual, I'm told that this is simply too unrealistic.

[Darth Krytie]

I've thought the same, but whenever I suggest people in Thedas are largely bisexual, I'm told that this is simply too unrealistic.

 

I think so, too. Thedas is Thedas. Demanding that their sexual orientation ratio is similar to ours is weird given the amount of differences. Moreover, it's weird since I'm positive that we don't know for sure what our own sexual orientation ratio really is.

[Ianamus]

I've thought the same, but whenever I suggest people in Thedas are largely bisexual, I'm told that this is simply too unrealistic.

 

It's not "unrealistic", but not represented that way in the games. Outside of the party and brothels heterosexual pairings still seem to be far more common. 

 

Considering that a larger proportion of people nowadays identity as bisexual or homosexual as opposed to several decades ago I think that the larger proportion of bisexual people in Thedas could simply be due to the lack of any real stigma about homosexual relationships. 

[MCG]

Bioware have constantly stressed they want to make it more "realistic" though, or in a sense more like how our world is today in some regard. They've acknowledged that there are people of one orientation, so why not acknowledge that not 50% of the world is bi-sexual. I'm not suggesting that many in Thedas are in-fact bi-sexual, but what I mean is is that there should be less same-sex relationships that heterosexual ones overall in the end.

[Deviija]

I've thought the same, but whenever I suggest people in Thedas are largely bisexual, I'm told that this is simply too unrealistic.

 

I've run into that many times as well.  That "realistic" word.  Always popping up in fictional fantasy and sci-fi discussions when it pertains to sexuality.  You'd think people were biased with how often it happens.

[Darth Krytie]

It's not unrealistic, but not represented that way in the games. Outside of the party and brothels heterosexual pairings still seem to be far more common. 

 

Considering that a larger proportion of people nowadays identity as bisexual as opposed to several decades ago I think that the larger proportion of bisexual people in Thedas could simply be due to the lack of any real stigma about homosexual relationships. 

 

If they're predominantly bisexual, how would you know if they were in an O/S relationship? The fact that most of the relationships we see are O/S tells us absolutely nothing about whether those people are bisexual.

[Sporothrix]

They never said there would be lesbians, gay men, straight men, or straight women. They said there would be straight, gay, and bisexual characters.

If there's a gay man and a straight woman, but everyone else is bisexual, that would fit.

And would be a slap in the face of players whose sexuality has been ignored (and judging from the road so far, wanna bet it would be lesbians?).

 

 

Why is elves being bisexual a bad formula? They're not humans, perhaps that's the way elven sexuality works.

 

Because it would deprive their players of element of choice about very important matter regarding their characters. Which wouldn't be as bad if it was stated from the get-go, but if we're going to learn about something like that years after first game in that universe has been made, which means that my head fics about my lesbian elf characters, including poor elven gal from Denerim living in a lie, forced to conceal, don't feel and to marry a man against her will, suddenly became totally illegitimate, then it would be a kick in the gut and a sign of complete lack of respect from devs.

[Ianamus]

If they're predominantly bisexual, how would you know if they were in an O/S relationship? The fact that most of the relationships we see are O/S tells us absolutely nothing about whether those people are bisexual.

 

If Thedas was predominantly bisexual there would be a lot more s/s couples than we see in the games. 

 

There really aren't that many at all. 

[Deviija]

If they're predominantly bisexual, how would you know if they were in an O/S relationship? The fact that most of the relationships we see are O/S tells us absolutely nothing about whether those people are bisexual.

 

Indeed.  A bisexual woman does not stop being a bisexual woman if she marries a man.  She is in a heterosexual relationship with a man, but a relationship is not a sexual orientation.  She is still a bisexual person.

 

If 50% of Thedas humans were bisexual, then running into men and women as couples would still not be unusual.  That would not mean all these couples are comprised of heterosexual people, however.  

[s-jay2676]

I don't see how having Cassandra straight somehow invalidates female Inquisitors. Particularly given that most female players are, presumably, straight. 

 

If anything the lead male companion being male only would send a clear sign that the male Inquisitor is the only "real" option. 

Right now, I don't think there is a male companion who is as important as Cassandra seems to be. And if the most important companion is only available to male Inquisitors, then yes, I think that sends a clear message, because the female Inquisitors are "stuck" with a less important character.

 

Btw, female players aren't the only ones that play female characters.

 

Edit: Spelling

[Sporothrix]

If Thedas was predominantly bisexual there would be a lot more s/s couples than we see in the games. 

 

There really aren't that many at all. 

 

Yup, and I love how people keep quoting some text about homosexual activity being accepted in Thedas. It seems to be "accepted" like in modern Japan - as long as you're going to settle down with opposite sex spouse and start a family, there's not much concern about your "phase".

[Ianamus]

 

Indeed.  A bisexual woman does not stop being a bisexual woman if she marries a man.  She is in a heterosexual relationship with a man, but a relationship is not a sexual orientation.  She is still a bisexual person.

 

If 50% of Thedas humans were bisexual, then running into men and women as couples would still not be unusual.  That would not mean all these couples are comprised of heterosexual people, however.  

 

I don't see where the sudden implication that I think all people in m/f relationships are heterosexual came from. My argument was that the vast, vast majority of couples we see in the games are m/f, making it incredibly unlikely that Thedas is predominantly bisexual. 

 

There are a grand total of 2 male/male couples in the Dragon age games, so excuse me for having a difficult time believing that Thedas is "predominantly bisexual". There are that many on my street.

[In Exile]

I don't see where the sudden implication that I think all people in m/f relationships are heterosexual came from. My argument was that the vast, vast majority of couples we see in the games are m/f, making it incredibly unlikely that Thedas is predominantly bisexual. 

 

There are a grand total of 2 male/male couples in the Dragon age games, so excuse me for having a difficult time believing that Thedas is "predominantly bisexual". There are that many on my street.

 

It is perfectly possible to be an M/F relationship and also have M/M sex and F/F sex. That being said, what M/M couples have we actually seen in DA:O? Harren and Wade do not mention their sexuality in-game, despite developer comments. 

[Ianamus]

It is perfectly possible to be an M/F relationship and also have M/M sex and F/F sex. That being said, what M/M couples have we actually seen in DA:O? Harren and Wade do not mention their sexuality in-game, despite developer comments. 

 

Wade/Herren and Anders/Karl are the only male couples I'm aware of in the Dragon Age games, hence my skepticism that the proportion of bisexual people in Thedas is significantly higher than real life.

 

I'm more than aware that it's possible to be in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender and still be bisexual, but with so few apparent relationships between two men or women in the games It doesn't seem to be the case.

[Hellion Rex]

Yup, and I love how people keep quoting some text about homosexual activity being accepted in Thedas. It seems to be "accepted" like in modern Japan - as long as you're going to settle down with opposite sex spouse and start a family, there's not much concern about your "phase".

It's called the World of Thedas, lore, and 2 novels. Perhaps you should try reading them?

[Sporothrix]

I've thought the same, but whenever I suggest people in Thedas are largely bisexual, I'm told that this is simply too unrealistic.

If we're talking about humans, then it is unrealistic, because they're still supposed to be the same species as in the real world. We could as well give them pointy ears and ability to breathe under water and call them humans - no one would buy it.

 

Unless, of course, you believe that humans IRL as "largely bisexual". Which, for reasons I described earlier, is basically form of erasure of other sexual minorities (straight people are still majority so they're not really harmed by such claims) and it actually helps homophobes in spreading their damaging message (for example, Lisa Diamond, who created "sexual fluidity theory", which, as it may look for people who didn't study it, seems similar to claims about universal bisexuality, admitted that her work is used by "ex-gay groups" in their propaganda).

[stuffystuffs]

 

Because it would deprive their players of element of choice about very important matter regarding their characters. Which wouldn't be as bad if it was stated from the get-go, but if we're going to learn about something like that years after first game in that universe has been made, which means that my head fics about my lesbian elf characters, including poor elven gal from Denerim living in a lie, forced to conceal, don't feel and to marry a man against her will, suddenly became totally illegitimate, then it would be a kick in the gut and a sign of complete lack of respect from devs.

 

I don't think anyone is saying elves can't be gay (or straight).

 

My female city elf is quite gay as will be my dalish inquisitor.

[In Exile]

Wade/Herren and Anders/Karl are the only male couples I'm aware of in the Dragon Age games, hence my skepticism that the proportion of bisexual people in Thedas is significantly higher than real life.

 

I forgot about Anders/Karl, but that's probably because Anders is never a character I could romance with a PC of any gender. 

 

Bioware's underrepresentation of sexualities doesn't mean that the setting doesn't overly represent bisexuals. Not that they've ever portrayed sexuality as part of anyone's identity in DA:O or DA2, IMO, even with Isabella and Zevran. 

[pallascedar]

Except it isn't, though. We've seen straight elves and we've seen gay elves.

 

As for why It's "bad", well, I wouldn't call it bad but I would say it's getting a little repetitive. I'd just like to see something different.

 

Where have you seen gay elves? Because I haven't seen any. (Briala I guess, but she isn't in game.)

 

And we've seen three total bisexual elves, two of them existed within a game in which every love interest was bisexual. So... Zevran makes our "trend". If Alistair had been bisexual I doubt anyone would be talking about the "trend of bisexual blonde men" and hoping that Cullen would break the trend.

 

I also (and I'm responding to other posts in the thread here) don't think I've ever heard of this "bisexual elf trope" outside of DA. Maybe it's because elves are lithe and there's a societal association of homosexuality with a more slender/hairless body type, but in all the fantasy that I've read (and I have purposefully sought out all the good fantasy that I can with gay characters) I don't think there's any trend of elves being any less straight than humans.

[Ianamus]

 

I forgot about Anders/Karl, but that's probably because Anders is never a character I could romance with a PC of any gender. 

 

Bioware's underrepresentation of sexualities doesn't mean that the setting doesn't overly represent bisexuals. Not that they've ever portrayed sexuality as part of anyone's identity in DA:O or DA2, IMO, even with Isabella and Zevran. 

 

The games have an overabundance of bisexual characters compared to homosexual characters, certainly, and that's a gripe I've always had. That said, I believe that Thedas as a setting has a large spread of all different sexualities. I don't believe that bisexual people are the majority and straight/ homosexual people are a minority.