12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Deviija]

Here's an excerpt from the demonstrations of the game they were doing at E3 in 2009, for the journalists (full article here):

 

 

The behind-closed-doors presentation of Dragon Age promised to show us two things: The nature of romance in the game, and the first reveal of a combat scene featuring a dragon. Let’s deal with the “romance” first. I don’t know whether it was a deliberately ironic choice of wording to introduce the clip. What we saw went something like this:

Our hero – one of the Grey Wardens, the group to which players will belong in an effort to fight back against the Blight, and the evil Arch Demon bringing it about – has a present for a lady, Morrigan. It’s a magical book that she has been looking for. She’s going to be very pleased to receive it. Once it’s dragged from our inventory to hers, she responds with some of the most excruciatingly dreadful flirtation I’ve ever seen. The acting is very weak, my face screwed up as I wrote the word “AWFUL” on my pad in the dark. She’s dressed as you might imagine a girl would appear on the cover of a 1980s D&D book, wearing what appear to be a couple of straps of material, most of her breasts hanging out. We can respond to her elephantine attempts at flirting by suggesting we’re open to her ideas. Once we’ve ambiguously agreed to her advances a couple of times, it cuts to a glimpse of an awkward sex scene that saw everyone in the room burst out laughing. Possibly not the desired reaction.

This all took place in a camp – something you can create at any time while wandering the game’s open spaces, a place to recoup, get some sleep, and chat with your companions. And indeed **** them all, apparently. Because as we emerged from our night with Morrigan, we went over to chat with the slightly more modestly dressed redhead Leliana, who it turns out is apparently our girlfriend. Leliana’s voice makes Morrigan’s seem Shakespearian. The delivery is so deeply weird, stunted and childish. Unsurprisingly she’s upset at our bedroom antics, and protests. But not with any vigour or passion, but rather damply complains that it’s not particularly nice of us to go sleeping with other women right in front of her. Acknowledging that she can’t necessarily stop us from sleeping around, she meekly asks that we either stick just with her, or have the grace to break up with her as we continue our conquests. We choose to tell her that we love her really. She immediately capitulates and welcomes us back into her arms, before you’ve washed the smell of the last woman off you. So romantic!

 

The date published is June 2009.  So yes, Morrigan and Leliana were outed as romances five months ahead of the November release date.  If they told us the romances come E3 for Inquisition, I wouldn't be overly surprised.  

[Avaflame]

I love my BioWare games, I do, and a large part of that is because of the characterisation, enhanced by the ability to romance, enhanced by the ability to express romantic and sexual interest in my own gender as I do in real life. So I can fully understand the love and appreciation people have for picking up a Bioware game and being able to fully insert themselves into a game without fear of being marginalised and discriminated against. What I do not understand is the level of aggression and the sense of entitlement some people seem to get in all of these topics. Just because it is a roleplaying game does not mean you should get absolutely everything you want. Whether Cassandra is straight, bisexual or homosexual is not an injustice to anyone. It just is. It is not the writers obligation to make sure that everybody gets their cake and eats it too; to demand otherwise almost seems to me like a slight on their integrity as writers.

As to how I feel about the set sexualities: I am glad they are implementing them, even if it means not being able to romance the character I want to as the gender I would prefer. People in this thread have mentioned the issues a lot of people had with the all-inclusive method of DA2 as a result of intolerance or ignorance toward bisexuals. For me, at least, this was not the case. While I can admit to maybe being a little bi-phobic in real life due to self-esteem issues, I have no qualms with bisexual characters or romancing them in video games. I love Leliana and Zevran in Origins, and if Alistair and Zevran had been switched, I would have had no problem romancing Alistair as a man knowing that he can also be romanced by women. In DA2 however, I felt the romances were kind of empty because I felt there was LESS acknowledgement of my character and my sexuality. I was just this grey, bland character whom everybody just automatically wanted. Or that is how it felt, anyway.

So even if I do not get the exact romance that I set out wanting in Inquisition, I am happy that I will finally feel like I can roleplay a truly gay character and have it mean something. I know a lot of people do not see it the way I do, but I feel this is a more inclusive ideologically ethical way of approaching romances in games. I will also admit a little vindictive side of me pleased that for once there is a little something in it just for me, that people will have to play as a gay character to share in instead of the other way around.

Ramble finished.

[Han Shot First]

Why is it that people think that Cassandra has to be available to male PCs? Why can't it be Vivienne, Sera or ScribeGirl that is the straight option?

 

What does Cassandra has that they do not?  Before it was officially announced she was an LI, most people though she wasn't going to be available at all.

 

 

Probably because Cassandra is now officially announced as a LI, and she seemed to have something romantic going on with a male character in Dawn of the Seeker.

 

That isn't to say that Cassandra couldn't be bi of course, but the anime is probably why most people assume she'll be one of the romance options for male characters. 

[Avaflame]

Yep. In her introduction trailer, it shows parts of her romance scene.

Spoiler

 

Spoilered for NSFW content.

Unrelated note: I miss the Character trailers, I was so hoping they would bring them back for Inquisition.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Unrelated note: I miss the Character trailers, I was so hoping they would bring them back for Inquisition.

At least we kind of have them in the form of Follower Fridays. Granted we only have one so far, but still.

[stuffystuffs]

Here's an excerpt from the demonstrations of the game they were doing at E3 in 2009, for the journalists (full article here):

 

 

The date published is June 2009.  So yes, Morrigan and Leliana were outed as romances five months ahead of the November release date.  If they told us the romances come E3 for Inquisition, I wouldn't be overly surprised.  

 

Oh those were the days when the romance characters were so deep and realistic 

[Deviija]

 I felt the romances were kind of empty because I felt there was LESS acknowledgement of my character and my sexuality. I was just this grey, bland character whom everybody just automatically wanted. Or that is how it felt, anyway.

 

 

Wouldn't this be more of a failing on behalf of the writing (and lack of certain content) than it is having bisexual LIs in and of themselves?  You could have characters allow you to discuss your sexuality/sexual preference outside of your LIs.  You could have people acknowledge it.  You could have roleplay dialogue options that allowed you more defining characterization.  I am not trying to engage in debate, I am interested in hearing your thoughts.  

[Farewell]

I wonder how many straight people would still prefer having straight, bi and gay characters if Cass and Cullen ended up gay.

I would.

[In Exile]

Wouldn't this be more of a failing on behalf of the writing (and lack of certain content) than it is having bisexual LIs in and of themselves?  You could have characters allow you to discuss your sexuality/sexual preference outside of your LIs.  You could have people acknowledge it.  You could have roleplay dialogue options that allowed you more defining characterization.  I am not trying to engage in debate, I am interested in hearing your thoughts.  

 

This is a tangent on your post, but how would DA - as a setting - be able to follow up on character sexuality? Since Bioware is (rightly) not creating a world that is prejudiced, so that discrimination based on sexuality is not a thing, where would S/S elements come from? All that I can think of is a discussion on children, whether the PC/NPC wants one, options, etc. But that's all i can see. 

 

Edit: I was missing an important "not". 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This is a tangent on your post, but how would DA - as a setting - be able to follow up on character sexuality? Since Bioware is (rightly) not creating a world that is prejudiced, so that discrimination based on sexuality is a thing, where would S/S elements come from? All that I can think of is a discussion on children, whether the PC/NPC wants one, options, etc. But that's all i can see. 

Yeah, we've only had two people really respond negatively to it, Oghren and Gamlen, and their response was just "So, which one of you guys is the girl in the relationship?"

[Avaflame]

Wouldn't this be more of a failing on behalf of the writing (and lack of certain content) than it is having bisexual LIs in and of themselves?  You could have characters allow you to discuss your sexuality/sexual preference outside of your LIs.  You could have people acknowledge it.  You could have roleplay dialogue options that allowed you more defining characterization.  I am not trying to engage in debate, I am interested in hearing your thoughts.  

Yes, it would be. But to me that would still be "set" sexualities - just all bisexual. To me it wasn't that everyone was bisexual; they didn't come across as bisexual to me. Nor pansexual. More like amorphous blobs (in terms of romance, though I did have some issues with the characterisation in DA2 in general as well).

To be honest, however, I think I would still be a little irked if everyone were bisexual because it would come across to me as being bisexual for practicality's sake, which it most likely would be. I remember in the lead up to DA2 wondering which out of Anders and Fenris would be available to a male PC and being disappointed when I found out it was both. I can't pinpoint exactly why, but while it's a contentious point I think a part of it was that I found it unrealistic and therefore, unbelievable.

But yes, if every companion was bisexual it wouldn't bother me as long as they still interacted with me differently depending on my gender and were limited in the availability as a romance option further than just whether or not I'm a jerk to them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I remember in the lead up to DA2 wondering which out of Anders and Fenris would be available to a male PC and being disappointed when I found out it was both. I can't pinpoint exactly why, but while it's a contentious point I think a part of it was that I found it unrealistic and therefore, unbelievable.

Two guys being bisexual in a group was unrealistic to you?

[In Exile]

But yes, if every companion was bisexual it wouldn't bother me as long as they still interacted with me differently depending on my gender and were limited in the availability as a romance option further than just whether or not I'm a jerk to them.

 

Not to reiterate my question, but how would they react differently? What would that involve? Why would they react differently? 

[Maria Caliban]

Probably because Cassandra is now officially announced as a LI, and she seemed to have something romantic going on with a male character in Dawn of the Seeker.
 
That isn't to say that Cassandra couldn't be bi of course, but the anime is probably why most people assume she'll be one of the romance options for male characters.

Er, no.

List of reasons why I think Cassandra will be available to a dudequisitor:
Arie
Jahera
Viconia
Bastila
Aribeth
Silk Fox
Dawn Star
Morrigan
Anora
Leliana
Liara
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Tali
Isabela
Merrill

Also see: Every woman you can have a one-night stand with.
Also also see: The Old Republic

What are the examples of romancable female characters not being available to men?
Samantha - lol
Juhani - lol x 2

[Hellion Rex]

Er, no.

List of reasons why I think Cassandra will be available to a dudequisitor:
Arie
Jahera
Viconia
Bastila
Aribeth
Silk Fox
Dawn Star
Morrigan
Anora
Leliana
Liara
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Tali
Isabela
Merrill

Also see: Every woman you can have a one-night stand with.
Also also see: The Old Republic

What are the examples of romancable female characters not being available to men?
Samantha - lol
Jahani - lol x 2

Damn...that many? Jesus, that's ridiculous.

[stuffystuffs]

Damn...that many? Jesus, that's ridiculous.

 

Good thing she didn't list out all the ones from The Old Republic.

 

The list would double.

[Hellion Rex]

Good thing she didn't list out all the ones from The Old Republic.

 

The list would double.

O___O

 

wut

[Avaflame]

Two guys being bisexual in a group was unrealistic to you?

I said it was a contentious point. And no, two bisexual guys in a group is not unrealistic to me. Two bisexual guys in a random group of six seemed unrealistic to me. In my life, in the twenty years before I moved to Edmonton at least, I've had a total of one gay friend and one gay co-worker and zero lesbian or bisexual personal acquaintances (that I know of). While now that is no longer true, when DA2 was coming out it was, whether that's a reflection on me being sheltered or Australia being less sexually accepting and therefore less forthcoming than Canadian society or me just being an outlying piece of data when it comes to meeting sexual minorities.

However, that was not my point and I made it clear that was for me, personally. My issue was not that they were both available to both genders, but the implementation and inferred reasoning behind it.

[stuffystuffs]

O___O

 

wut

 

I think that game had like 12ish female companion romances across all the classes plus plenty of hookups/one night stands/npc romances.

 

So maybe not quite double but yeah...it was a lot.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I said it was a contentious point. And no, two bisexual guys in a group is not unrealistic to me. Two bisexual guys in a random group of six seemed unrealistic to me. In my life, in the twenty years before I moved to Edmonton at least, I've had a total of one gay friend and one gay co-worker and zero lesbian or bisexual personal acquaintances (that I know of). While now that is no longer true, when DA2 was coming out it was, whether that's a reflection on me being sheltered or Australia being less sexually accepting and therefore less forthcoming than Canadian society or me just being an outlying piece of data when it comes to meeting sexual minorities.

However, that was not my point and I made it clear that was for me, personally. My issue was not that they were both available to both genders, but the implementation and inferred reasoning behind it.

Since there was only 4 LI, they had to be available to all sexual orientations. Otherwise each orientation would get 1 choice(bisexuals get 2). 

[Vapaa]

Two bisexual guys in a random group of six seemed unrealistic to me.

 

Couldn't agree more ! It was totally beliveble to have a Fereldan-Orlesian Kirkwall guard captain, a Dalish outcast bloodmage, a half-possessed Grey warden mage, a Lyrium-enhancer Teviner elf slave, a shaved storyteller dawrf, and a sex-focused pirate following the same person...but 4 bisexuals, I REPEAT FOUR BISEXUALS, is where I totally draw my line in the sand, goddamit !

 

[jncicesp]

However, that was not my point and I made it clear that was for me, personally. My issue was not that they were both available to both genders, but the implementation and inferred reasoning behind it.

Do they really have any reasoning behind having gender restrictions beyond them just wanting them to be there?

Paying attention to it to much would upset you either way.

[Hellion Rex]

 Two bisexual guys in a random group of six seemed unrealistic to me.

And two bisexuals gals is more realistic? What kind of twisted logic is that?

[Avaflame]

Not to reiterate my question, but how would they react differently? What would that involve? Why would they react differently? 

I don't think there's a specific way how, or what it would entail. In terms of why, because it's human nature and it adds a personal touch. I don't speak to everybody the exact same way. I gauge people off of their behaviour, appearance, acquaintances and surroundings and base my interactions with them from that. In a video game all they have to distinguish our character (for the most part) that the game can recognise is gender, race and class. So I want reactivity based on those things. What I don't want is an army of Lucy-Liu bots as my companions.

[Maria Caliban]

And two bisexuals gals is more realistic? What kind of twisted logic is that?

If pornography has taught me anything, it's that if there's one bisexual woman, there's sure to be a second close by.