12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Chari]

And none of that requires him liking a certain gender.

It does. Being male means no romance with him.
Even if he was into dudes, he still would either have to break up or keep the player as a lover. No heir - no marriage

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yep. MWarden could've just been stuck with the lover on the side script like everyone but F!Cousland. Have an extra line in the babies dialogue "We obviously can't have children even without the taint..." and there you go.

Yep.

 

It does. Being male means no romance with him.
Even if he was into dudes, he still would either have to break up or keep the player as a lover. No heir - no marriage

Exactly. A pointless limitation.

So...exactly the same that happens with female Wardens.

[Kalyppso]

It does. Being male means no romance with him.
Even if he was into dudes, he still would either have to break up or keep the player as a lover. No heir - no marriage

 
 

Yep. MWarden could've just been stuck with the lover on the side script like everyone but F!Cousland. Have an extra line in the babies dialogue "We obviously can't have children even without the taint..." and there you go.

I think Ryzaki has you covered Chari. (;

[Vapaa]

Still a pretty emotional moment. I don't even like Ashley and Kaidan, but so much drama felt amazing. Terrible and amazing

 

"emotional" ?

 

I didn't even get it was a "choose one, leave the other" situation, and when I saw the blast, I actually reloaded to save the one I wanted.

And when I saw Kaidan defending the bomb, still alive, I was like "yep, could totally have saved him".

 

Yeah, emotional

[Chari]

I think Ryzaki has you covered Chari. (;

Nah. It still is a difference, an additional approach to romance
Not to mention that you have forgotten that there also would be a difference between female and male Cousland. An interesting one as well, since male Cousland actually can possibly become the king
Now just imagine a situation if Alistair stayed as a grey warden instead of a king, and his lover took his place. Awkward XD

[Chari]

"emotional" ?

I didn't even get it was a "choose one, leave the other" situation, and when I saw the blast, I actually reloaded to save the one I wanted.
And when I saw Kaidan defending the bomb, still alive, I was like "yep, could totally have saved him".

Yeah, emotional

I recall my frustration when I learned I couldn't save them both. I felt like I let them down as a commander. One of the most emotionally powerful hits in the game for me. I am grateful to Bioware for creating it

[Vapaa]

I recall my frustration when I learned I couldn't save them both. I felt like I let them down as a commander. One of the most emotionally powerful hits in the game for me. I am grateful to Bioware for creating it

 

I just though it was bad game design.

The Suicide mission was Virmire done right, even if there was a few WTF moments.

[Kalyppso]

Nah. It still is a difference, an additional approach to romance
Not to mention that you have forgotten that there also would be a difference between female and male Cousland. An interesting one as well, since male Cousland actually can possibly become the king
Now just imagine a situation if Alistair stayed as a grey warden instead of a king, and his lover took his place. Awkward XD

It is a difference. I don't think you realize that to what degree it is awkward or whether or not it is awkward, is a matter of opinion though ... and not fact. There could totally be a King and a King-Regent in this fictitious universe - why not? However, Alistair would have to be king because of bloodlines, mWarden would have to settle in as a glorified consort and consultant - but again, why not? d:

[karushna5]

All games are scripted. RPGs or not. Games are not about wish fulfilment. Hard choices make game more interesting and more realistic, hitting player's feelings hard, but in an artistic manner

Many games are about wish fullfillment, and I think many many people DO play games for escapism. Hard choices are great and all, but DA2 was an example of it being overused. Evil templars or Evil mages, eh. Also, "realism" is rarely real. And hard choices that always are tragic are just as heavy handed as things always ending well. I have stopped reading books, or watch movies because the amount of grimdark was too high. Not because it was depressing, but because it was ludicrous. It almost seemed a parody of itself. A tale of Unfortunate Events for adults except it takes itself seriously.

Kaiden vs Ashley, And Bhelen vs Harrowmont, Quarians vs Geth, especially die or (there should have been a harsher option, but die or allow another to die instead of sleep w/ potential LI) I think are good ones used sparingly to give them more umph.

Bad ones are kill kid or kill mom to complete main quest. It sucks and is really bad and is so arbitrary with the same action, its like for some reason by plot you have to beat a puppy to death, or shoot a kitten. I think it is fairly arbitrary to pick between two equally bad options for the same outcome. Another bad one is evil mages or evil templars, who each turn on you. I like keep vs villiage, because you are choosing which one to save, not which one to destroy personally and they have different outcomes. One is making a hard choice, and the other is forcing you to make a bad choice for no reason than grimdarkness. Also one gives a player the feeling of choice, while the other forces something on you, and your character, which can make you feel helpless, which isnt fun in an rpg.

Not every choice needs a way out, but if at least some of them do and that the main plot CAN be happy, through some smart choices and handy skills, then yes, they make the game memorable. But all darkness, everything is bad vs worse than you get something just as ludicrous

[Ryzaki]

Nah. It still is a difference, an additional approach to romance
Not to mention that you have forgotten that there also would be a difference between female and male Cousland. An interesting one as well, since male Cousland actually can possibly become the king
Now just imagine a situation if Alistair stayed as a grey warden instead of a king, and his lover took his place. Awkward XD

 

Probably would have to have him hardened to accept being your lover on the side much like Leliana. But isn't that something you want? Clear gender differences?

I don't see how it's any less awkward than Alistair with a mistress. Or less awkward than Hardened King Alistair married to Anora with living Loghain.

 

@Karu: Agreed. It gets to the point where I don't give a damn anymore and want the whole place nuked from orbit. Games are primarily an entertainment medium. If it's not doing that for me there's no reason for me to play. I mean sheesh. At least let me play a complete psycho who'd fit in with the crapsack world. But noooo that might ruin the precious railroad angst. Ra forbid.

[Chari]

I just though it was bad game design.

No one is perfect unless Mary Sue. Even Shepard makes mistakes

[Kalyppso]

I recall my frustration when I learned I couldn't save them both. I felt like I let them down as a commander. One of the most emotionally powerful hits in the game for me. I am grateful to Bioware for creating it

I just though it was bad game design.

I did not think it bad game design. I really felt it worked well for the story. I was romancing Kaidan up to that point and thought I might get a shot of my Shepard mourning him at some point ... but that never really happened because flirting wasn't the same as a romance flag up until the almost kiss you can share with whoever after Virmire. I liked this choice. I do not feel it negatively or positively influenced the accessibility of the romances and positively influenced the execution of the romances (survivor guilt, etc.).

[Vapaa]

No one is perfect unless Mary Sue. Even Shepard makes mistakes

 

It wasn't a mistake on Shepard's part, it would if not helping the salarian team had an impact on the teamate that was with them but it didn't, and it just created a plot hole.

[Ryzaki]

It wasn't a mistake on Shepard's part, it would if not helping the salarian team had an impact on the teamate that was with them but it didn't, and it just created a plot hole.

 

Pretty sure the devs wished they had left being able to save them in given how sloppily Kaidan & Ashley are done in ME2 and ME3. Which is odd because Wrex and Wreav is done well. But they have Ashley and Kaidan acting way too similar in ME2 (Kaidan for one you'd think would be far more reasonable and willing to hear Shep out) then in ME3 Ashley's...well Ashley in ME3. And meh.

[Chari]

Probably would have to have him hardened to accept being your lover on the side much like Leliana. But isn't that something you want? Clear gender differences?
I don't see how it's any less awkward than Alistair with a mistress. Or less awkward than Hardened King Alistair married to Anora with living Loghain.

@Karu: Agreed. It gets to the point where I don't give a damn anymore and want the whole place nuked from orbit. Games are primarily an entertainment medium. If it's not doing that for me there's no reason for me to play. I mean sheesh. At least let me play a complete psycho who'd fit in with the crapsack world. But noooo that might ruin the precious railroad angst. Ra forbid.

A new type of awkward :3 though unhardened Alistair would probably feel even relieved

If everything obeyed a player's every demand then no one would take the game seriously. Some boudaries have to be there

[Divine Justinia V]

I'm so glad I got Mcdonalds to watch this

[Chari]

I'm so glad I got Mcdonalds to watch this

Now I feel hungry

[In Exile]

Nope. To some extent - yes, but not without boundaries. Otherwise most games would end at the beginning with "And so they lived ever happily after"

Still a pretty emotional moment. I don't even like Ashley and Kaidan, but so much drama felt amazing. Terrible and amazing

 

Wish fulfillment is not the same thing as a happy ending. You can have a game that's about nothing more than power fantasy and still have it end in a pretty melancholy manner. 

The Witcher 1-2 are great examples: they're pure power fantasy in terms of who Geralt is and what he does, but the setting and outcomes are all pretty dark to pure grimdark. 

[Ryzaki]

A new type of awkward :3 though unhardened Alistair would probably feel even relieved

If everything obeyed a player's every demand then no one would take the game seriously. Some boudaries have to be there

 

 

He does feel relieved unhardened. There's a dialogue saying such.

 

That doesn't entail the LIs having to be restricted to one gender. They could easily be open to both genders and your actions during the game close them off to you. In fact I prefer that way. That way if you're missing out on an LI its because of your in game decisions. They still show clear preferences for certain characters (more noble, more ruthless, more cunning, so on) and we don't get wut inducing crap like Tali dating Cerberus golden boy Shep who turned Veetor over to be tortured or Alistair romancing a bloodmage slaver who bats her eyes at him cause female undermining characterization.

[Chari]

He does feel relieved unhardened. There's a dialogue saying such.

That doesn't entail the LIs having to be restricted to one gender. They could easily be open to both genders and your actions during the game close them off to you. In fact I prefer that way. That way if you're missing out on an LI its because of your in game decisions. They still show clear preferences for certain characters (more noble, more ruthless, more cunning, so on) and we don't get wut inducing crap like Tali dating Cerberus golden boy Shep who turned Veetor over to be tortured or Alistair romancing a bloodmage slaver who bats her eyes at him cause female undermining characterization.

People have preferences, the west hasn't fought so hard for them to be accepted so in the end they are simply handwaved as unimportant
That's the life. Rejection is an important part of any relationship type

[Chari]

Wish fulfillment is not the same thing as a happy ending. You can have a game that's about nothing more than power fantasy and still have it end in a pretty melancholy manner.
The Witcher 1-2 are great examples: they're pure power fantasy in terms of who Geralt is and what he does, but the setting and outcomes are all pretty dark to pure grimdark.

witcher is definitely not a wish fulfilment. Even with all stupid fan service. You don't have much choice and boundaries are much more restricting than in DA or ME
Plus Geralt is a character of a book, he already has a set personality and definitely a set sexuality

[Vapaa]

If everything obeyed a player's every demand then no one would take the game seriously. Some boudaries have to be there

 

So steamrolling over Alistair by telling him who he'll marry and who he'll sleep with in order to have a child he'll never met because I needed it, is okay.

But 4 romances bi, noooo, that's definitively obeying player's ever command !

 

[Shark17676]

I honestly still don't understand the arguments against "player-sexuality".  Why should anyone care about what happens in someone else's game?

[Milan92]

Does anyone else want a dramatic kissing in the rain scene?

With the Inquisitor hanging upside down?

This is not Spider-Man!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I honestly still don't understand the arguments against "player-sexuality".  Why should anyone care about what happens in someone else's game?

Because apparently "This person is clearly *insert sexual orientation here*" > "This person seems to be *insert sexual orientation here*".