12496 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

I am curious as to people' s thoughts/predictions regarding the quality of NCP romances.

I am hoping they will be as rich as companion romances , but I am afraid thet will be kind of meh...I have no real basis to feel that way other than past bioware NCP romances have kind of sucked.

They can never be on same level as companions because they won't be with the proitaganist for large stretches of the game. Even if they follow along in camp rather than remaining at skyhold where you'd expect them to be they aren't going to be present during any quests. So not equivalent/not substitutable for removing choice in companion romances.

[ladyoflate]

Thedas used to be pretty sexist in past. Sure it took less time to become more neutral... Just one dead martyr, one dwarfess who cut out her own tongue and one woman who got burned... Anyway, just because Bioware writes bad guys it doesn't mean they share their opinions

 

Their JESUS is a woman. That would have a heck of an impact. Moreso than what we see.

[Chari]

Their JESUS is a woman. That would have a heck of an impact. Moreso than what we see.

Yeah. Jesus plus Joan d'Arc. Still, if Gamlen and Oghren are any indications (as much as I adore them), sexism is still there. Bioware aren't evil for putting it in some characters

[Shaen Mac Tir]

They could have chosen differently, and they should have. 

 

Should they? Really? OK now you are acting entitled.

I mean come on, people, DA is not a pretty fairy-tale about everyone being tolerant and peaceful and happy. There are wars, there is hate, there is racism, ignorance, fear, stupidity and power-hunger. It's a dark, adult fantasy, and it doesn't matter if the world of Thedas doesn't exist. The writers chose what they chose. If you feel that it's wrong, well... don't read/watch/play those kind of things. Or write your own game where gender, race and class wouldn't matter.

Oh, and something else. If a character in the game calls you femShep a stripper, it's the problem of the character, who is being stupid/trolling you/rude/hateful. It's not the writers who are all those thing. Don't forget that.

[Mes]

They don't do it because they enjoy it. They do it because that's kind of problems women in Thedas and ME have to work with. Thedas has slavery, blood magic, no surprise it has sexism or even molesters.
Thedas may be a fantasy world, but people in it are somwtimes still flawed, cruel and merciless

 

Sorry just had to jump in and say - the whole sexism against women in DA thing is not consistent with lore. If you think it is, please point me to some examples because I don't have any. 

 

But honestly... What bothers me most is that it's just casual sexism. It's not there for any reason. It's just sprinkled in like some perverse seasoning. There is no "feminist movement" in Thedas, no one trying to spread awareness of gender equality, there is nothing. And then your own character says "I'm braver than both of you, and I'm a woman!"... Just.... what?

 

It just occurred to me literally 5 minutes ago that I tend to play as male characters to avoid sexism. *sigh*

[Mes]

Anyway GAWD if we must have sexism why can't it be toward men for once? 

 

Not saying I think that's a good idea. But I'm sick of this assumption that sexism toward women is "the norm" and goes hand in hand with war, fantasy, etc.

[Deviija]

Funny how excusable and permissible sexism and racism becomes in fictional fantasy and fictional sci-fi worlds when it comes to women and people of color, because, "that's just the way things are/the way things were on Earth/what makes it realistic." 

 

No one has argued that DA (or fantasy and sci-fi in general) should be rainbows and sunshine.  If someone truly believes that is what this discussion boils down to, then I'd recommend re-reading people's posts.  

[Shaen Mac Tir]

It's not there for any reason.

 

It's there for a reason. The world has it's own history, traditions and etc., and even different countries do.

For example, there is strong sexism in Antiva and Rivaine, there is mild sexism in Orlais (which was struggled againsy by Aveline) and Orzammar (Silent Sisters).

There is some hints of sexism in Ferelden and other coutries, but not the exact amount of it than, say, in Antiva.

sexism toward women is "the norm"

 

Who said it was the norm? It is not the norm for our society, It could be considered the norm for another. The "norm" is not always a good and fair thing, you know, it's just the thing that is considered acceptable by the majority.

BTW, there is sexism for the men, really. The Chantry

Funny how excusable and permissible sexism and racism becomes in fictional fantasy and fictional sci-fi worlds

 

Oh? If you are against sexism and racism in fictional worlds, why are you not against, say, slavery? Or violence? Or ignorance at all?

Nobody here is saying ANYTHING about how the writers shouldn't have put slavery and violance in the game. Nobody here asks "Why did you make elves to be so hated because of their race? It's wrong!" No, the only things that botheres the society is that they PC will not get what they want because of these reasons.

So I suppose it's quite selfish.

[Mes]

Funny how excusable and permissible sexism and racism becomes in fictional fantasy and fictional sci-fi worlds when it comes to women and people of color, because, "that's just the way things are/the way things were on Earth/what makes it realistic." 

 

 

Yeah, bingo. It's like sexism toward women is some ingredient that magically makes every fictional world feel complete.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Yeah, bingo. It's like sexism toward women is some ingredient that magically makes every fictional world feel complete.

 

Bullshit. It doesn't make it "complete". It's inserted into the world (or is not) because the writer decided to do so. Maybe to show the variety or cultures (which can not and should not be all the same) maybe to show the women's struggle to overcome the oppression they are showered with in the writer's universe.

My point is, the games (movies, books, etc.) are a piece of art. And the artist has the right to portray any kind of reality, and the fans are surely not the ones which can tell them "Hey, I don't like your world, I think it's unfair, and you should make it according to my wishes!"

I am yet to hear a more senseless request than this one.

[Chari]

Sorry just had to jump in and say - the whole sexism against women in DA thing is not consistent with lore. If you think it is, please point me to some examples because I don't have any.

But honestly... What bothers me most is that it's just casual sexism. It's not there for any reason. It's just sprinkled in like some perverse seasoning. There is no "feminist movement" in Thedas, no one trying to spread awareness of gender equality, there is nothing. And then your own character says "I'm braver than both of you, and I'm a woman!"... Just.... what?

It just occurred to me literally 5 minutes ago that I tend to play as male characters to avoid sexism. *sigh*

Aveline the knight, the first Silent sister, dwarven system, qunari etc.

Discrimination is a psychological and even biological phenomenon. It doesn't matter how liberal society is, there always will be a group of mistreated folk. Skin, sex, style, skin or hair colour.
We have traditional roles in Thedas, stereotypes and biases. People think with categories, they stereotype because that's how our brains work. Some are intelligent enough to analyse information. Most will follow familiar patterns.
Qunari? Evil. Elf? Thief. Dwarf? Greedy. Man? Abusive. Woman? Housewife.
We can fight it and keep it at bay, but to some extinct discrimination will always be in us. Just instead of mistreating one group of people we will mistreat another one.
Sex is one of the vital traits of any biological creature, one the most vital on facts. So of course even in Thedas there will be biases.

[Deviija]

 

My point is, the games (movies, books, etc.) are a piece of art. And the artist has the right to portray any kind of reality, and the fans are surely not the ones which can tell them "Hey, I don't like your world, I think it's unfair, and you should make it according to my wishes!"

 

 

A writer can write whatever they wish.  That does not make what they write beyond critique, analysis, and/or discussion.  

[Shaen Mac Tir]

That does not make what they write beyond critique, analysis, and/or discussion.  

 

It doesn't, surely. You can critique all you want But you shouldn't demand that the writers do whatever you want with their world. You shouldn't imply that the writers cannot or should not do this or that.

Okay this conversation is going off topic and somewhat sad, so I'll jsut shut up now.

How about we stop discussing sexism and etc. and discuss... well... the romances?

[Ryzaki]

 

 

 

 

A writer can write whatever they wish.  That does not make what they write beyond critique, analysis, and/or discussion.  

 

 

Exactly. You're free to write whatever you want and if you put in a public space people are free to read it and call it garbage.

 

 

Sorry just had to jump in and say - the whole sexism against women in DA thing is not consistent with lore. If you think it is, please point me to some examples because I don't have any. 

 

But honestly... What bothers me most is that it's just casual sexism. It's not there for any reason. It's just sprinkled in like some perverse seasoning. There is no "feminist movement" in Thedas, no one trying to spread awareness of gender equality, there is nothing. And then your own character says "I'm braver than both of you, and I'm a woman!"... Just.... what?

 

It just occurred to me literally 5 minutes ago that I tend to play as male characters to avoid sexism. *sigh*

 

Same. Most of it's the casual unintentional condescending remarks that get me. At least the obvious Get in the kitchen! I can dismiss as an idiot but subtle crap like "you're really strong for a woman!" or "She's competent and female!" just...it irritates the hell out of me. BW games are MUCH better about this than most but they slip up too. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with people pointing this out. We have as much right to make requests of what's in the game as everyone else.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

You're free to write whatever you want and if you put in a public space people are free to read it and call it garbage.

 

Sure And the writer is free to say "Oh well, it's MY world, isn't it?" I just can't see why all the counter-productive whining is overwhelming this thread. The Bioware said their word. They already heard your critisism. Why repeat the same things over and over again?...

No answer so far.

[The Qun & the Damned]

Hmm. Alright, I'll try my hand at this wonderful guessing game, first, to pull out obvious and speculated non-romancables

Cole - DG makes a good point about this one, though the same could be said about Fenris, but at least Cole can see into reason.

Feathers - who knows what's going on there and how long before his calling, though if he were romanceable, I could see it ending tragically.

Leliana - If hardened, maybe a Zevrisabela moment?

Varric - emotionally unavailable and even if we resolved things that went down with Bianca, it'll probably be a long time before anyone can ho it up with the paragon of manliness

Vivienne - I'd be heartbroken if she wasn't romancable, but I wouldn't whine if she isn't either

Solas - By the Old Gods and the New, please be a LI!

 

• Cullen  - Romance confirmed - Straight, more than likely. I played that origin and the dude stutters at the mere thought of entering the Blooming Rose
• Cass (she'll probably murder us if we called her that) - Romance confirmed - Bi I assume, she's rather tickled by the romantic aspect of Hawke (male or lady) beating the Arishok in single combat, other than that, just pulling specs out my ass.
• Iron Bull - hopefully romanceable by either gender, not based on speculation, I just want to climb that like a tree.
• DHMG/Dorian - gay, (don't murder me, ladies, though I'd Tevinter his magister any day of the week)
• Solas - if a romance, pansexual, though I'd be surprised if he was exclusively into either or seeing as to how often elves are portrayed as fairly pansexual
• Sera - bi or lesbian, she's a cool cat as far as she's described, but we'll see
• Scribbles - straight (they're not going to NPC zone the token lesbian again, right?)

 

And just like that, I've pulled all I can out of my own ass, farewell.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Cole - DG makes a good point about this one, though the same could be said about Fenris, but at least Cole can see into reason.

Feathers - who knows what's going on there and how long before his calling, though if he were romanceable, I could see it ending tragically.

 

...adn just like that, the guys I'd like to romance are unavaliable. Again.

Oh well, then.

[Ryzaki]

Sure And the writer is free to say "Oh well, it's MY world, isn't it?" I just can't see why all the counter-productive whining is overwhelming this thread. The Bioware said their word. They already heard your critisism. Why repeat the same things over and over again?...

No answer so far.

 

Of course they are. And then people are free to take their business elsewhere.

 

Also if the whining bothers you...why not just leave the thread? You can do that you know? You're not being forced to read the thread. And if you are I suggest calling the police.

 

Doesn't mean they'll never answer though. And even if they aren't maybe I enjoy grousing with fellow minded people. What exactly is the issue with that to you? It's not like it's off topic.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Also if the whining bothers you...why not just leave the thread? You can do that you know? You're not being forced to read the thread. And if you are I suggest calling the police.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm just trolling you Oh bless David Gaider, my sensei.

And could be also that I'm bored. Who knows...

[byeshoe]

 

• Iron Bull - hopefully romanceable by either gender, not based on speculation, I just want to climb that like a tree.
• DHMG/Dorian - gay, (don't murder me, ladies, though I'd Tevinter his magister any day of the week)
• Solas - if a romance, pansexual, though I'd be surprised if he was exclusively into either or seeing as to how often elves are portrayed as fairly pansexual
• Sera - bi or lesbian, she's a cool cat as far as she's described, but we'll see
• Scribbles - straight (they're not going to NPC zone the token lesbian again, right?)

 

And just like that, I've pulled all I can out of my own ass, farewell.

Hmm..I'm starting to think that the Iron Bull just might be romanceable. He'll of course be reserved for the quanari inquisitor, or not 
Dorian's going to be crazy xD just you watch, his food personality is surprise meatbawls for petes sake XD

I'm really hoping that Solas will be available, he's on my radar because -w- because just because (I actually have a reason but meerp.) Sera is gonna be bi, and the scribe chick could be bi as well. I'm doubting this however cuz' they need a lesbian romance. Dorian could be gay..or he could be bi, all I know is that he's romanceable! and Solas could be gay..  and varric could be only into Quanari's while the grey warden is into his belly! yiiiis, this is how everything will turn out.

No really though, the Iron bull..there is a good chance that he'll be romanceable.

[The Ascendant]

I wonder how my Qunari Inquisitor will get along with Cassandra in a Romance...

"You are the only threat I see!"

"*I can't tell if I am terrified or aroused*"

[Vegeta 77]

I think bioware will follow tradition on romances. There has always been a female mage and female rogue romance. Viv mage sera rogue will both be li i think.

[javeart]

Aveline the knight, the first Silent sister, dwarven system, qunari etc.

Discrimination is a psychological and even biological phenomenon. It doesn't matter how liberal society is, there always will be a group of mistreated folk. Skin, sex, style, skin or hair colour.
We have traditional roles in Thedas, stereotypes and biases. People think with categories, they stereotype because that's how our brains work. Some are intelligent enough to analyse information. Most will follow familiar patterns.
Qunari? Evil. Elf? Thief. Dwarf? Greedy. Man? Abusive. Woman? Housewife.
We can fight it and keep it at bay, but to some extinct discrimination will always be in us. Just instead of mistreating one group of people we will mistreat another one.
Sex is one of the vital traits of any biological creature, one the most vital on facts. So of course even in Thedas there will be biases.

 

I deeply disagree. I don't think discrimination it's biological (which makes it sound like it's natural and not so wrong) and it's definitely not about stereotypes, like orlesians are fancy and fereldans sleep withh their dogs. It's about inequality, and the power to make your specific stereotypes culturally dominant it's just part of that inequality. 

[Hellion Rex]

I think bioware will follow tradition on romances. There has always been a female mage and female rogue romance. Viv mage sera rogue will both be li i think.

I still think that there's gonna be symmetry with the NPC romances, which is why I think Scribbles is a mage.