12496 réponses à ce sujet

[javeart]

There were. Aveline the knight, the first Silent Sister both suffered greatly and only due to their sacrifices women obtained rights to wield weapons in their cultures
Sexism, racism etc is much deeper than many people think. Look at our closest related species like primates, at other developed species like dolphins, elephants, wolves or lions who all show a high or medium level of conscience. They torture, murder, rape and practise cannibalism, their hierarchy is brutal, unfair.
Humans started like this as well. There was no forum on which they all decided "let's abuse these stupid women, poc, poor, children etc cause we are evil". It's just that we started as animals. And as we evolve we get rid of these stereotypes, cultural biases because we become smarter, more aware. Still, due to our psychology we will never get rid of them all. We'll simply replace old ones with new ones and continue our struggle
Thedas may be a fantasy world, but it is made by real people. And to sympathise with them we adapt characters, world, rules, cultures, intentionally or not. Otherwise cartoons and games about animals would have real animals, and no human persons wrapped in an imagine of a talking beasts

 

I don't want to go too OT but I have to say this and then will just leave the subjetc    : stereotyping it's not the same that discriminating, because the second involves inequality. Even if labeling and categorizing it's part of how we think, discrimination doesn't follow from it. 

[WildOrchid]

Sex scenes could add to the game.. if they were used for characterization. But then we'd have a very different game if you suddenly got dialogue choices like "No, Morrigan, I want you to be inside me." So FTB just works way better for everyone. 

 

Mass Effect sex scenes could be the best to add in DAI. The first ME and Liara's scene in ME3 handled it way better than let's say... Witcher.

[javeart]

Also, I'm one of those who would rather have no gender specific dialogues for romances. But I guess we'll probably get some because that's part of the charm of set sexualities, isn't it? that and dead wifes and husbands 

[Hellion Rex]

that and dead wifes and husbands 

NO. NO CARTH SYNDROME. NEVER AGAIN....

 

*shakes uncontrollably*

[KaiserShep]

Also, I'm one of those who would rather have no gender specific dialogues for romances. But I guess we'll probably get some because that's part of the charm of set sexualities, isn't it? that and dead wifes and husbands 

 

It ain't a real romance until somebody dies.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think the problem is that people are getting the wrong idea about what "escapism" is for minority people that play the DA games. The DA world typically has zero negative reaction to people with PCs of various skin colors, very few instances where there's any negative reaction to homosexual/bisexual PCs, and only a moderate amount of drawback for female players. In the real world, being a racial minority, being LGB, or being a woman has a dramatically negative impact on your life experience from that of a straight, white male. People aren't playing DA for escapism to see a world that's all sunshine and roses. They're playing it to experience a world where they can be themselves and still be the hero, with respect and power despite the issue about themselves that's constantly an issue of strife for them in the real world. People aren't saying Thedas has to be a utopia, they're just asking if it could avoid highlighting the same discriminatory issues they personally have to deal with in the real world.   

[In Exile]

That's mostly you assuming we talk only about women
Want some sexism directed at men? Go to qunari. There men are either cannon fodder or priests. No artists, no governors

 

You are only talking about women. That's what spawned the post. That's what spawned the discussion. Whether or not the qunari are sexist against men is pretty YMMV, since we see nothing about their culture and only have met their military arm in-game. 

[Boost32]

Holy sexism, Batman. It is not rewarding that you have to do something that is literally world-altering to prove that you're the equal of Droolie McMoron, the town cellar guard, because you happen to be a woman. It's a sad reflection on the world. 

 

Edit: Everytime someone asks for sexism, it's always for women to be treated poorly. It's pretty transparent when people aren't asking for things like men not to be taken seriously on account of their gender, and to have people like the Grand Cleric go "Lol, seriously, a man leading the Inquisition? Why don't you get back into the kitchen and let the women talk about politics."  

I would like that

[In Exile]

I think the problem is that people are getting the wrong idea about what "escapism" is for minority people that play the DA games. The DA world typically has zero negative reaction to people with PCs of various skin colors, very few instances where there's any negative reaction to homosexual/bisexual PCs, and only a moderate amount of drawback for female players. In the real world, being a racial minority, being LGB, or being a woman has a dramatically negative impact on your life experience from that of a straight, white male. People aren't playing DA for escapism to see a world that's all sunshine and roses. They're playing it to experience a world where they can be themselves and still be the hero, with respect and power despite the issue about themselves that's constantly an issue of strife for them in the real world. People aren't saying Thedas has to be a utopia, they're just asking if it could avoid highlighting the same discriminatory issues they personally have to deal with in the real world.   

 

To add to that, the narrative itself is empowering. The PC is a powerful person, immune from threats and the otherwise darker aspects of the world. Things like the darkspawn - abominable rape horrors that they are - can't exist in the PCs presence without being eradicated by the hundreds. 

[Chari]

I don't want to go too OT but I have to say this and then will just leave the subjetc : stereotyping it's not the same that discriminating, because the second involves inequality. Even if labeling and categorizing it's part of how we think, discrimination doesn't follow from it.

Hierarchy and unacceptance of others is a part of how we think, unfortunately. Humans are group based creatures. We have alphas we follow and omegas we despise. And outsiders - potential enemies and rivals. Nature is cruel, you either fight or die

[Chari]

You are only talking about women. That's what spawned the post. That's what spawned the discussion. Whether or not the qunari are sexist against men is pretty YMMV, since we see nothing about their culture and only have met their military arm in-game.

No, I talk about sexism in general and answer to your examples which all have female PCs
We know enough about them from codex, developers etc. They're an intriguing example of strict sexist and racist society... Yet equal as well. No one is the winner, all are controlled equally

[javeart]

Hierarchy and unacceptance of others is a part of how we think, unfortunately. Humans are group based creatures. We have alphas we follow and omegas we despise. And outsiders - potential enemies and rivals. Nature is cruel, you either fight or die

 

I think that's just a very ideologically charged description of nature, but we probably are not going to agree about it, and it's not the place to discuss it. I just felt the need to sate my opinion on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, we can just leave at that 

[OctagonalSquare]

Right, well biologically speaking, humans, elves, and dwarves in Thedas are all the same species as well, given that they can interbreed and produce viable offspring.  That's the definition of a species, technically.

Well... no. The definition of species is more complicated than that. There are multiple examples of interspecies offspring that are completely fertile, such as grizzly-polar bear hybrids. Even we interbred with other human species in the past. In fact, all non-sub-Saharan humans are part Neanderthal and/or Denisovan.

[In Exile]

We know enough about them from codex, developers etc. They're an intriguing example of strict sexist and racist society... Yet equal as well. No one is the winner, all are controlled equally

 

The Chantry is all-female, but you've still argued that Orlais is a place that's sexist against women, despite it being the power base of the Andrastian faith. So clearly you believe that despite certain auspices of power, value judgements and prejudice can put women in a subordinate role. We don't see anything about the qunari in-game aside from their male warriors, so we don't know how the culture would come across in practice.  

[Chari]

I think that's just a very ideologically charged description of nature, but we probably are not going to agree about it, and it's not the place to discuss it. I just felt the need to sate my opinion on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, we can just leave at that

Nature is both fair and discriminating. Yes, it is all about the survival through any means. Yet also everything that works is good. Matriarchy? Bees. Patriarchy? Herds. Groups? Wolves. Loners? Tigers. Fighters or cowards, fliers or crawlers - it doesn't matter.
As long as you can live long enough to spawn offspring, you win. Even if it means eating your own babies if they're sick or smell like humans, or putting your eggs in others' nest and kicking out all others bird babies on the ground where they'll die from hunger or carnivores
But yeah, we unlikely will agree, so let's not bother

[Deviija]

To add to that, the narrative itself is empowering. The PC is a powerful person, immune from threats and the otherwise darker aspects of the world. Things like the darkspawn - abominable rape horrors that they are - can't exist in the PCs presence without being eradicated by the hundreds. 

 

Moreover, on the empowering side, I enjoy that my canon Dragon Age world has some of the landscape's impressive historical figures, The Hero of the Blight and The Champion of Kirkwall and soon to be The Inquisitor, as heroic women of color.  And my secondary world has said figures as bi/gay men.  To have them woven into the tapestry of Thedas' history, and be prominent factors in the world, is very empowering and fulfilling for me as a minority.  This is something we rarely if ever get to be a part of, and why this form of "escapism" is a beautiful thing.  

[Chari]

The Chantry is all-female, but you've still argued that Orlais is a place that's sexist against women, despite it being the power base of the Andrastian faith. So clearly you believe that despite certain auspices of power, value judgements and prejudice can put women in a subordinate role. We don't see anything about the qunari in-game aside from their male warriors, so we don't know how the culture would come across in practice.

Because it used to be as stated by canon. Just because women were in power in chantry it doesn't mean they had access to everything. Priestess don't fight, they read, do researches and spread the faith

[Chari]

Well... no. The definition of species is more complicated than that. There are multiple examples of interspecies offspring that are completely fertile, such as grizzly-polar bear hybrids. Even we interbred with other human species in the past. In fact, all non-sub-Saharan humans are part Neanderthal and/or Denisovan.

Polar and grizzly bears are still very very close, almost the same as dogs breeds

[azarhal]

The Chantry is all-female

 

It's not all-female, men cannot raise higher than brothers and that is only in the Orlesian Chantry. The Tevinter Chantry has no such regulation.

[pallascedar]

Polar and grizzly bears are still very very close, almost the same as dogs breeds

 

That's completely untrue. Dog breeds are, at most, 20,000 years apart. That's less genetic dissimilarity than some people have from each other.

[Chari]

That's completely untrue. Dog breeds are, at most, 20,000 years apart. That's less genetic dissimilarity than some people have from each other.

Still, close enough to breed. In case of dogs it is one species, different subtyes

[daveliam]

Well... no. The definition of species is more complicated than that. There are multiple examples of interspecies offspring that are completely fertile, such as grizzly-polar bear hybrids. Even we interbred with other human species in the past. In fact, all non-sub-Saharan humans are part Neanderthal and/or Denisovan.

 

Yeah, to be factual, I should have said that the population of the offspring's species would be viable.  A grizzly-polar bear hybrid has a population level fitness of almost zero.  It's on the population level that a species' fitness is actually measured.  Species hybridization rarely results in a "fit" species.

 

With regard to humans and Neanderthals, that's why one popular theory is that Neanderthals are actually a sub-species (****** sapiens neandertalensis), which is why the hybrid offspring were able to sustain and thrive in Europe.

 

ETA:  Gosh dangit, BSN!  While I appreciate that you censor a word that can be used as a slur, how am I supposed to  discuss human sociobiology without being able to use the Genus name for humans! 

[javeart]

So, one thing that I read a while ago and that worries me a little: Gaider is going to write only two romances, right? Cass and another one? (by the way, do we have any clues on who could be the other one?) I mean, not the I don't trust the rest of the team (I love Sten and Isabella, for instance) but he wrote most of my favourites characters and my favourite romances, and now with set sexualities I'm afraid I might miss both of his LIs   I think I'm personally more concerned about this than about getting stuck with the character I find the least physically attractive

[Nocte ad Mortem]

So, one thing that I read a while ago and that worries me a little: Gaider is going to write only two romances, right? Cass and another one? (by the way, do we have any clues on who could be the other one?) I mean, not the I don't trust the rest of the team (I love Sten and Isabella, for instance) but he wrote most of my favourites characters and my favourite romances, and now with set sexualities I'm afraid I might miss both of his LIs   I think I'm personally more concerned about this than about getting stuck with the character I find the least physically attractive

We don't know who his other is yet. I don't know if it's confirmed how many companions he's writing, but I've seen two quoted a lot. Not sure if that's certain or assumed. If it's two, we can basically be sure his companions are Cassandra and Cole. The second LI probably isn't Cole, so it's likely an NPC romance. Hepler was doing Cullen and then left Bioware, so quite a few people have theorized he re-wrote Cullen. Totally speculative, though.     

[javeart]

We don't know who his other is yet. I don't know if it's confirmed how many companions he's writing, but I've seen two quoted a lot. Not sure if that's certain or assumed. If it's two, we can basically be sure his companions are Cassandra and Cole. The second LI probably isn't Cole, so it's like an NPC romance. Hepler was doing Cullen and then left Bioware, so quite a few people have theorized he re-wrote Cullen. Totally speculative, though.     

I see... I forgot they don't like talking about who wrote who, do they? thank you for the clarification