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I'd like every character to be plot relevant, romance or otherwise. I don't like the Mass Effect format of "solve my daddy issues and then I'll help you with your [main plot] issues" for most companions. That's not the only way it has to be. Every character could have a major stake in the veil tear situation.
While it's true that you could theoretically give every companion equal relevance to the plot, it's just not going to happen if past BioWare games are anything to go by.
And what exactly is the difference between being designed to titillate straight or bisexual men and being designed to titillate bisexual or lesbian women?
I'm pretty sure they were simply designed to be attractive to anyone who considers females attractive, not to straight men specifically.
I accidentally deleted this part.
I doubt the devs had gay people in mind when doing the first ME, since there was no gay and lesbian character until ME3.
And mainly because they went with the mind that most straight dudes find lesbians hawt and just that.
If this wasn't the case, then why we didn't had a lesbian and gay character?
edited bc of typos. Wow. I need coffee.
Anyone else feelin' the Bearded Warden love today!!!
as for Liara... With "both genders" you mean straight men and lesbian women, don't you? What's with gays and straight femals?
You were not exchanging with me and I'm sure that's not what you meant, but gay and straight are genders now?
I'm not sure how you envision a character available to both men and women that is also gays and straight all at the same time for both genders.
Also, from a certain perspective, Liara can not be considered a lesbian/straight romance. She is seen as female by human standard because she get to play the mother (if she wants) and have effeminate/feminine traits, but for her species she might not be considered "female".
Saying all that, I would very like it to have a "main" companions that was gay or lesbian (doesn't even need to be romance-able in my case).
Um... so you've been complaining about set sexualities in Inquisition and saying that everyone should be bisexual, and then point out in a negative manner that no "plot relevant" LI has been available only to the same gender?
Boom.
I just reacted to your list. And it's definitively not fair, if there are only straight gamers who get all games with plot relevance LI's. Of course, I prefer bisexual main romances in future games. But your list doesn't say: Hey, look. Everyone was bisexual, so it's fair. It says: you can be glad, if you'll get at least some bisexual main plot characters because it isn't that obvious and natural to get the same amount of main romances as straight males would get.
I accidentally deleted this part.
I doubt the devs had gay people in mind when doing the first ME, since there was no gay and lesbian character until ME3.
And mainly because they went with the mind that most straight dudes find lesbians hawt and just that.
If this wasn't the case, they why we didn't had a lesbian and gay character?
Well if they didn't have gay women in mind at all she would never have been an option for female Shepard, surely. Her playerbase was mostly female, after all.
I just don't like arguments that anything that involves attractive women is immediately "pandering to straight men" any more than arguments that anything involving hot men is "pandering to straight women".
And to be quite frank I see "Race of attractive blue women with no men who can reproduce with anyone else regardless of gender" to be even more appealing to bisexual/lesbian women as a whole than straight/bisexual men.
You were not exchanging with me and I'm sure that's not what you meant, but gay and straight are genders now?
I'm not sure how you envision a character available to both men and women that is also gays and straight all at the same time for both genders.
Also, from a certain perspective, Liara can not be considered a lesbian/straight romance. She is seen as female by human standard because she get to play the mother (if she wants) and have effeminate/feminine traits, but for her species she might not be considered "female".
Saying all that, I would very like it to have a "main" companions that was gay or lesbian (doesn't even need to be romance-able in my case).
no, I want to say, there's no male counterpart as main romance in Mass Effect 1and 3. So, Liara only matters to straight male and bisexual/lesbian female gamers.
And Asari are monosexual, not non-sexual. They may not be considered as female but only because all Asarai are women and there aren't male counterparts. So the definition of "female" becomes irrelevant.
as for Liara... With "both genders" you mean straight men and lesbian women, don't you? What's with gays and straight femals?
^^ That just made my day, Maria. 
And what exactly is the difference between being designed to titillate straight or bisexual men and being designed to titillate bisexual or lesbian women?
I'm pretty sure they were simply designed to be attractive to anyone who considers females attractive, not to straight men specifically.
Oy. Oy. I don't think we should be going down this road because it's off topic, but I will field this question and then I'm out.
I can only speak for myself, but it is stems from the notion sexually, women are expected to be available for men even when they are not. It's fetishization of a lesbian/bi/pan girl's sexuality when media is created for men or with the idea of men in mind. It allows men to have hold on a sexual orientation that does not involve them. This goes is part of what happens in a patriarchal society. When lesbian (bi/pan ladies as well) content is created with women in mind, it's less about being available for men and more about empowering a woman's agency independent of men. Of course that means some men will seek it out and enjoy it and that is more incidental and less problematic than the former. I'm not saying it's wrong to turned on by two women together, but I would say it's problematic when someone's sexual agency is compromised by the messiness of gender politics and sexual agency.
Aaaand we should go back to topic. I do have a question. Aside from the obvious of whom everyone thinks will be romanceable by whom, are there certain romantic arcs that interest everyone? What sort of character development will you hope to see, generally that is?
You were not exchanging with me and I'm sure that's not what you meant, but gay and straight are genders now?
I'm not sure how you envision a character available to both men and women that is also gays and straight all at the same time for both genders.
Also, from a certain perspective, Liara can not be considered a lesbian/straight romance. She is seen as female by human standard because she get to play the mother (if she wants) and have effeminate/feminine traits, but for her species she might not be considered "female".
Saying all that, I would very like it to have a "main" companions that was gay or lesbian (doesn't even need to be romance-able in my case).
If you actually read the post, you'll see that it's actually clarifying a point made by Iananmus. Iananmus states that Liara is available to "both genders", but that doesn't actually make Mass Effect "fair" at all. Liara is clearly female, so all that means is that lesbians were thrown a bone while gay men still got nothing.
It's not at all implying that "gay" and "straight" are genders.
Liara is absolutely female, as are all Asari. They use feminine pronouns, their titles are based in human conceptions of womanhood. BioWare wasn't even trying to make them seem anything other than female. It's really, really obvious.
Even if Asari didn't consider themselves female (but they do, because they use feminine signifiers to refer to each other all the time), it wouldn't matter, because BioWare still chose to present them as females.
My problem is that there is no real good reason for characters to have a set sexuality. It limits options for players and anything like gender specific conversations, such as children, can just be programmed to occur just depending on the PC's gender.
Ok. What about the LI's relationship history? Is that also gender specific? Because if the LI don't have a set sexuality then the LI can't tell about his/her past relationships, desires, experiences etc. Because if the LI tells something about his/her previous relationships then you know that the LI can be bi or straight or gay depending on the situation.
And to be quite frank I see "Race of attractive blue women with no men who can reproduce with anyone else regardless of gender" to be even more appealing to bisexual/lesbian women as a whole than straight/bisexual men.
And yet Liara is the popular one especially with males...
And to be quite frank I see "Race of attractive blue women with no men who can reproduce with anyone else regardless of gender" to be even more appealing to bisexual/lesbian women as a whole than straight/bisexual men.
Lol. You don't see how "planet of sexy chicks" is a classic sci-fi trope that is absolutely intended to appeal to heterosexual male fantasies?
Ok. What about the LI's relationship history? Is that also gender specific? Because if the LI don't have a set sexuality then the LI can't tell about his/her past relationships, desires, experiences etc. Because if the LI tells something about his/her previous relationships then you know that the LI can be bi or straight or gay depending on the situation.
So what? Why is the LI's relationship history important at all?
And yet Liara is the popular one especially with males...
Was her romance not popular with females? I'm honestly curious.
Anyone else feelin' the Bearded Warden love today!!!
And yet Liara is the popular one especially with males...
Was her romance not popular with females? I'm honestly curious.
Liara was fairy popular with gay ladies too mainly because she was the only romance we had.
In fanart and fanfiction though, femaleShepard and Liara were the most popular couple, alongside Shepard/Garrus.
But outside of that, in the 'survey', Liara was the most popular romance for male Shepards. And i assume the majority were males who played him.
I'd also like the " main romance " to be lesbian and gay into the set sexualities system, or at least available to everyone to be honest. I think it's important. The " main romance " is still viewed as a privilege for " straight folks, " a big wall that isn't broken yet, and the s /s folks viewed as an afterthought in such cases. ( even if it never was the intent of the devs, it would be difficult to avoid people thinking that way. ) S/ s folks would also feel more respected if the " main romance " , meaning more plot revelant, was available to them in my opinion, - which never happened before with that system - It doesn't mean they would favor the love interest, but just the thought of it available would do a lot.
I'm all for that for both idealistic and pragmatic reasons. It would be great if Cassandra was available to everyone for example, she does seem to be very plot relevant.
If you actually read the post, you'll see that it's actually clarifying a point made by Iananmus. Iananmus states that Liara is available to "both genders", but that doesn't actually make Mass Effect "fair" at all. Liara is clearly female, so all that means is that lesbians were thrown a bone while gay men still got nothing.
Actually I was pointing out that not all of the "most plot-relevant" romances were unavailable to gay/lesbian players, as Liara and Anders were both bisexual romances.
I was never saying anything about Mass Effects "fairness". In fact I specifically pointed out on the last page that I don't think plot relevancy has anything to do with fairness at all.
Lol. You don't see how "planet of sexy chicks" is a classic sci-fi trope that is absolutely intended to appeal to heterosexual male fantasies?
And what exactly makes "heterosexual male fantasies" any different from bisexual male fantasies, lesbian fantasies or bisexual female fantasies?
How is "planet of sexy chicks" any more appealing to straight men than any of the other groups I mentioned above?
So what? Why is the LI's relationship history important at all?
Because LI's past experiences affects the LI. The LI might still mourn his/her dead partner. The LI might not trust you easily if she/he has been betrayed in a relationship before. The LI might be nervous about sex with the PC if he/she is inexperienced and that affects the conversations between the two of them. When the LI is more experienced then the LI will most likely act differently.
And what exactly makes "heterosexual male fantasies" any different from bisexual male fantasies, lesbian fantasies or bisexual female fantasies?
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