12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Krytie]

And to be quite frank I see "Race of attractive blue women with no men who can reproduce with anyone else regardless of gender" to be even more appealing to bisexual/lesbian women as a whole than straight/bisexual men.

 

Well, it certainly didn't work for me. I did playthrough it, but it's not in my top three favourites. It came across as a little too "teach me of this earth thing called kissing" for me. Especially since a lot of the scenes with Asari were clearly intended for the male gaze. I mean, most Asari spend a part of their earlier years as dancers and strippers and not to mention you had the Consort. If you think that was geared towards appealing to women interested in other women, you're way off.

[Mockingword]

And what exactly makes "heterosexual male fantasies" any different from bisexual male fantasies, lesbian fantasies or bisexual female fantasies? 

 

How is "planet of sexy chicks" any more appealing to straight men than any of the other groups I mentioned above?

I can't say if it appeals to same-sex oriented women or not, but the fact is that the Asari were conceived by men with a male audience in mind.

 

Media is controlled by straight men, not bisexual or lesbian women. If anything in Mass Effect 1 & 2 appeals to bisexual or lesbian women, it's probably by accident.

[Ashelsu]

And what exactly makes "heterosexual male fantasies" any different from bisexual male fantasies, lesbian fantasies or bisexual female fantasies? 

 

How is "planet of sexy chicks" any more appealing to straight men than any of the other groups I mentioned above?

 

As a bisexual woman who prefers ladies, I felt dirty after Traynor's shower scene. It was cringeworthy, and I'm not a prude, I liked Liara's scene.

And apparently women-only civilisation can only consist of stripdancers. How did they become so advanced? Oh, yes, Protheans did it.

[Mockingword]

Because LI's past experiences affects the LI. The LI might still mourn his/her dead partner. The LI might not trust you easily if she/he has been betrayed in a relationship before. The LI might be nervous about sex with the PC if he/she is inexperienced and that affects the conversations between the two of them. When the LI is more experienced then the LI will most likely act differently.

Why does the LI need to have a dead partner? Why does the LI need to have been betrayed? Why does the LI need to be a virgin?

 

In real life, we don't need to know the extensive sexual histories of the people we date, and they aren't obligated to tell us. I'd think that goes double for fictional partners.

[Sequin]

Was her romance not popular with females? I'm honestly curious.

Can only speak for myself, but I liked the arch.

[Fetunche]

It's impossible to know whether Liara would be as popular with women as a f/f romance if they'd had options.

[Felya87]

Why does the LI need to have a dead partner? Why does the LI need to have been betrayed? Why does the LI need to be a virgin?

 

In real life, we don't need to know the extensive sexual histories of the people we date, and they aren't obligated to tell us. I'd think that goes double for fictional partners.

they can not tell us. But past experience (or the lack of those) are what form a person. And this is true for fictional character too. We may never know (in game) those things. but the fact that we don't know what happened to them, doesn't meant it didn't happen. Those may be part of information a writer need to better enter in the mind of the character and write his reaction and comportmant in a way that is right for the character.

without a past of his/her own, a character may lack of a background, and as a result may end up feeling flat and with an unfinished/undefined personality.(or blank as a sims from the sims)

[azarhal]

Was her romance not popular with females? I'm honestly curious.

 

Considering it's impossible to know who is playing a male or female Shepard in real-life, that's a bit complicated to answer. Going by the official infographics, ME3/ME2 had ~82% of the players using male Shepard, but I doubt there was only ~18% of female players playing the game going by the general BioWare fanbase and gaming in general.

 

This just tell us that a lot of women probably played MaleShepard and romanced female companions actually...

[ladyoflate]

Well, it certainly didn't work for me. I did playthrough it, but it's not in my top three favourites. It came across as a little too "teach me of this earth thing called kissing" for me. Especially since a lot of the scenes with Asari were clearly intended for the male gaze. I mean, most Asari spend a part of their earlier years as dancers and strippers and not to mention you had the Consort. If you think that was geared towards appealing to women interested in other women, you're way off.

 

Oh god, the Consort. I liked her concept because I'm always interested in varied stories of sex workers, but in the first game (haven't gotten through the other two yet) when she goes right up to your Shepard and grabs their face I really just wanted a 'STEP OFF, LADY. PERSONAL BUBBLE.' option. It was deeply uncomfortable to me.

[Mockingword]

Whatever you say.

 

I mean, if the characters backstory is never revealed, who says the writers even wrote one? Character depth is an illusion. I know authors who just write whatever and then possibly go back and figure out the backstory later, if they think it's going to be important in a sequel or prequel.

 

With my own characters, I try to avoid backstory details that aren't directly relevant to the main plot. I don't need to know the dating histories of my entire cast, making all that up is just a waste of time that distracts me from working on the real project, which is the story they're supposed to be appearing in.

[Iakus]

Yup. This is what a 'main romance' is. A romance that is tied to the story. Leliana pretty much was a "side" character, and so was Zevran.

Either make all the romances plot central or don't make them at all and i really dislike it when the straight romances seem to have more content and banter and etc.

Hopefully in DAI's case there won't be any romance that has more content than other romances.

 

I don't think any of the romances have been "plot central" though some plot central characters can be romanced. 

 

Though I do agree it would be nice if a romance can get mentioned as part of the stroy, even in an offhand manner (such as Morrigan trying to guilt my Warden into doing teh DR by saying, effectively "think of how sad Leliana would be without you")

 

And speaking of Leliana:  though she may be a "side characer" in DAO, she is shaping up to be a more important character to the Dragon Age series in general.  Heck, she's got an entire DLC devoted to her.  No one else but Tallis even comes close t that! 

[ladyoflate]

I think what they mean is that they'd like a non-optional recruit to be a same-sex romance, since non-optional recruits are non-optional for a reason. Leliana's shaping up well for involvement, but in the original game you could (and plenty of people did) completely miss her. And you had the option to kill Zevran instead of recuiting him, even if you couldn't miss him. Morrigan and Alistair you had to have.

[Shark17676]

 

How is "planet of sexy chicks" any more appealing to straight men than any of the other groups I mentioned above?

 

 

A "sexy" all-female race known for being the best strippers in the galaxy.  The implications of rampant lesbianism...although they're more than happy to mate with and please men of other races as well.

 

Do you really need an explanation on how the race was designed specifically with the straight male demographic in mind?

[Iakus]

I think what they mean is that they'd like a non-optional recruit to be a same-sex romance, since non-optional recruits are non-optional for a reason. Leliana's shaping up well for involvement, but in the original game you could (and plenty of people did) completely miss her. And you had the option to kill Zevran instead of recuiting him, even if you couldn't miss him. Morrigan and Alistair you had to have.

 

Alistair, yes.  Morrigan could still be kicked to the curb, I believe.

 

Edit: and didn't Leliana meet you at the edge of Lothering if you don't recruit her, giving you a second chance for recruitment?

[WildOrchid]

And speaking of Leliana:  though she may be a "side characer" in DAO, she is shaping up to be a more important character to the Dragon Age series in general.  Heck, she's got an entire DLC devoted to her.  No one else but Tallis even comes close t that! 

 

 

Yeah... if only she was a romance in DAI (be romanced only if your Warden didn't romance her).

Ah well, we can't have everything.

[karushna5]

Was her romance not popular with females? I'm honestly curious.

To me it was very very lacking. I liked Liara, romanced her in one, was true to her in 2, and romanced her in 3. My gf romanced Garrus and the incredible difference to see those side by side was ridiculous. Regardless of that, she lacked a lot of oomph and was a little too empty of any passion with the relationship. (Not saying they didnt have their intrests, but I liked the relationship more of Leliana and Marjoline without the obvious bit of the backstabbing)

Leliana was similiar, lacked a lot of passion in regards to the romance, sweet, but I have sch a hard time putting my finger on it. Liara and Leliana seemed very passive characters, especially Liara who seemed like more of a plot device in 1. Sam, on the other hand an unimportant character, was actually fine, but Leliana and Liara seemed more backdrops. Jacob felt similiar in some ways. He seemed fairly passive not so much as a personality as a character.

I do think that (kinda)Tali, Liara, Leliana(there is a reason she is the most romanced), Merrill, are made somewhat passively and that appeals to straight male gamers. I am not saying that they did not have needs or intrests or goals, but they took a more back seat to their own story.

Women on the other hand always seem to lean towards more active characters. Garrus, (a reason many ladies wanted Wrex), Thane(except at the end), Alistair, Zevran. Anders, (kinda)Fenris. Varric
Jacob and Kaiden are fairly passive and my theory is that is why they are disliked more in the fandom. Many lesbians I have seen show a preference for active characters- Jack, Miranda, Morrigan, Isabela, Ashley, and from the looks of it Cassandra.
Not saying so much for the forcefulness as Alistair actually hates to do anything and is fairly passive personality wise.

I dont see it as a sexist thing, I just always felt that straight men like passive usually more then women, and women usually prefer active types.

[Farewell]

Why does the LI need to have a dead partner? Why does the LI need to have been betrayed? Why does the LI need to be a virgin?

 

In real life, we don't need to know the extensive sexual histories of the people we date, and they aren't obligated to tell us. I'd think that goes double for fictional partners.

 

There is no real need for LI having a dead partner etc. But then there is really no need to have a romances either.

 

LIs don't have to tell you extensively about their sexual histories or any past relationships. But if the LI is inexperienced then why couldn't you talk about it with him/her in a game. You could play as an inexperienced PC so you would explore the whole situation in that point of view. Or you could play as an experienced PC who could teach the LI the "secrects of love". Those experiences wouldn't be there if the LIs wouldn't have any past experiences. What I'm trying to say here is that when LI has past relationships or the LI don't have past relationship matters because that way it enables us to experience different relationships in a game.

[azarhal]

And speaking of Leliana:  though she may be a "side characer" in DAO, she is shaping up to be a more important character to the Dragon Age series in general.  Heck, she's got an entire DLC devoted to her.  No one else but Tallis even comes close t that! 

 

Morrigan had Witch Hunt, although she wasn't a party member, it was still about her.

 

I think what they mean is that they'd like a non-optional recruit to be a same-sex romance, since non-optional recruits are non-optional for a reason. Leliana's shaping up well for involvement, but in the original game you could (and plenty of people did) completely miss her. And you had the option to kill Zevran instead of recuiting him, even if you couldn't miss him. Morrigan and Alistair you had to have.

 

You could tell Morrigan to leave as soon as you got to the camp the first time. Only Alistair was not optional (and dog if human noble) and that only up to the Landsmeet.

 

DA2 did it better: Isabela and Fenris are optional. Anders, you can tell to leave in Act 2 at a specific point in time (he still show up at the end). Merrill is the only romance option you can't discard, yet she is seen as the less plot-relevant of them.

[Shark17676]

For one thing, a lot of 'heterosexual male fantasy' is based around women being reduced to objects or having very little worth beyond their ability to sexually stimulate and satisfy men.

 

So true.  One only has to look at something such as that Spicy City cartoon for adults in the late 90's...tripe that barely even pretended to be deep and artistic and not all about straight male viewer titillation.  The show was heavily criticized for its blatant objectification of its female characters...and I'm sure it was the reason why the network, who had already green-lighted a second season, wanted to fire the entire writing staff and replace them with a new team (an incident that the creator strongly objected to, and culminated in the show just being cancelled).

 

Anyway, I'm beginning to digress...the point is, straight fantasy as a whole too often caters to men, and comes at the expense of women.  I wish for games and media in general to finally grow beyond all that...to realize that straight fantasy really can be presented fairly and tastefully, and without demeaning the female party.

[ladyoflate]

Alistair, yes.  Morrigan could still be kicked to the curb, I believe.

 

Edit: and didn't Leliana meet you at the edge of Lothering if you don't recruit her, giving you a second chance for recruitment?

 

But you still had to recruit her in the first place and THEN kick her out and even then I think she shows up again to offer the DR. I just looked it up, and it seems that Leliana turns up on the edge of town if you reject her in the tavern, but if you just don't go in nothing happens. And you can still say no, the which you cannot do with Morrigan and Alistair.

[Felya87]

Whatever you say.

 

I mean, if the characters backstory is never revealed, who says the writers even wrote one? Character depth is an illusion. I know authors who just write whatever and then possibly go back and figure out the backstory later, if they think it's going to be important in a sequel or prequel.

 

With my own characters, I try to avoid backstory details that aren't directly relevant to the main plot. I don't need to know the dating histories of my entire cast, making all that up is just a waste of time that distracts me from working on the real project, which is the story they're supposed to be appearing in.

 

from the point of view of a writer help a lot knowing as much as possibile about the character you are writing about. Those information may came in help in the strangest moments. So those can be in a notebook ready to be used when writing a particular scene, or simply stay there.

 

but, how many thing we don't know about a person, but are there? If I have fear of spiders, but I met a person in a ice rink, probably he/she would not end up knowing I'm scared of spiders, because is too cold for them, and we would't find any, and I would not cry of fear at seeing one.

But if this person have a shirt with a realistic spider printed on, I can say to him I don't like his/her shirt all that much. But I would not have to tell to this person that the reason is beacuse I can't stand spiders. 

 

I have studied for some time how to write stories for comics, and the creation of the characters. the most detail you have from the background, the more you can enter in his/her mind.

[WildOrchid]

Many lesbians I have seen show a preference for active characters- Jack, Miranda, Morrigan, Isabela, Ashley, and from the looks of it Cassandra.

You got it right especially here. Most lesbians like aggresive women.
Too bad most of them weren't available. That's why i'm rooting hard for Cassandra to be f/f romance, i'll be so sad if she goes to the big list of "perfect aggresive ladies that are only romanced by dudes".

Though Vivienne does seem a bit aggresive too.

[karushna5]

You got it right especially here. Most lesbians like aggresive women.
Too bad most of them weren't available. That's why i'm rooting hard for Cassandra to be f/f romance, i'll be so sad if she goes to the big list of "perfect aggresive ladies that are only romanced by dudes".
Though Vivienne does seem a bit aggresive too.

Yeah, I dont think it is any coincidence that a huge fan love exists from women for Vivienne and Cassandra. If I had a romance each game of who i could, it would have been
Da:O- Morrigan (when I heard there was a bi option I was really surprised it wasnt her)
DA:2 Isabela (I romanced her, it was great!)
ME1- Ashley (I actually like her flirts and she is pretty sweet)
ME2- miranda at first, but I think I would prefer Jack later(it would be hard to choose)
ME3- The same

[Ashelsu]

You got it right especially here. Most lesbians like aggresive women.
Too bad most of them weren't available. That's why i'm rooting hard for Cassandra to be f/f romance, i'll be so sad if she goes to the big list of "perfect aggresive ladies that are only romanced by dudes".

Though Vivienne does seem a bit aggresive too.

Honestly I would prefer Meredith to all DA2 options. She broke my heart. What can I say, I love badass girls in the uniform. Crossing my fingers for Cassandra too.

[azarhal]

And you can still say no, the which you cannot do with Morrigan and Alistair.

 

You can't say no because the game is supposed to be played with a party, not solo, so companions are forced on you at the start for balance and gameplay reasons (just like Varric/Aveline/Sibling and mostly probably Cassandra/Varric/? in DAI). Once the game expect you to have gathered other companions, you are allowed to kick Morrigan out. Alistair cannot be removed because he is doing his job as a Warden, at least until the Landsmeet...