I think it's a bit of an unreasonable standard to expect people to not care about appearance at all. I think Allan has good intentions with his concerns about objectification, but I don't really think the situation is the same at all as the one I've heard explained from The Witcher. Objectification, like the case of The Witcher's "sex cards", occurs when characters are reduced down to their ability to sexually titillate the audience. A clear case of objectification is having several paper thin characters that add little to the story, enhancing their sexual attributes and reactivity, giving each of them long, graphic sex scenes when you finally "win", then giving the player a trading card with a scantily clad picture of them on it as a reminder of their conquest. A system like this is, at least I believe, completely different from why most people enjoy the romance system in DA games. I see people often boiling down the romance system to "being able to hump any character you like", telling people to just "go play a dating sim", etc. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding why people enjoy the system.
I couldn't give half a crap about the "sex scene" in the relationships. I've said multiple times on the forums that I favor the "fade to black" approach from DA2. What I like about the romance system is what it adds to the story. The "dating sim" suggestion especially misses that most people that greatly enjoy the romance system don't do so at exclusion of the main story. I find that most people I've spoken to that love the romance system also find the story and the characters, generally, to all be extremely important to them. I don't want just a selection of people that I'm able to shuffle through some dialog options with to get to a sex scene and it's hard to not be somewhat insulted when people boil down your interest in the games to that. (I'm not saying that's what Allan did at all. I thought I'd point that out, since I mentioned him earlier, this just comes from random BSN posters.) It's true that, personally, I don't play DA for the gameplay. As long as I'm capable of doing it, I don't much take interest in it. I'd play the super easy narrative mode, if it was available. I absolutely play for the story and characters as a whole, though. For me, the main story arch is greatly enhanced by both the friendships and the romance plots that complicate it. The characters are what makes Bioware's games far above any others, in my mind. Their character development and world building is something that I've never been able to find in another game and I love Bioware for that.
That being said, yes, people are divided into "people I would romance" and "people I would be friends/rivals with" in my mind. Maybe it's not the most PC thing to admit, but let's be honest, most people are not naturally pansexual. We mostly have things we are and are not attracted to. Objectification, to me, isn't finding someone attractive. Objectification is making them only worth the level of sexual stimulation they can produce. I'm not attracted to the warden at all, but I still think he's an incredibly interesting character. I'm in no way saying I want his concept replaced by a stereotypically attractive male. I'm very interested in him and his story. I'm sure he has a lot to add to the experience. I just don't have any interest in romancing him. I will be honest that I'm one of the ones that thinks Cole's concept is extremely attractive. That's also absolutely not even close to the thing I find most interesting about him. The last thing I would want is for his character to be hanging around my room at the keep in a medieval speedo, making sexual innuendos, or whatever. I want to learn about what he is and what that means about spirits primarily. If his creator thinks he's not suitable as a romance, I also totally respect that and I have no reservations that it will in any way change his value as a character, to me.
I actually do not get attached to the idea of only one character being an LI and an attractive character not being an LI doesn't ruin my interest in them as a character. What I do find disappointing is not having any LI available that appeals to me. Rationally, I obviously know that Bioware isn't designing LIs simply to appeal to me, personally. It's unreasonable to expect that to happen and to be angry if it doesn't. Still, I'm disappointed. The romance feature greatly enhances my enjoyment of the story and it's disappointing not to have an option that really fills that slot, for me. The fact is, though, I find attractive what I find attractive. I can't change it. To me, not romancing Iron Bull is exactly the same as not romancing Vivienne. They may be incredibly deep, interesting characters that I will absolutely love, but they're never going to be attractive, to me. I completely understand why the representation issue is different between providing fair options for homosexuals vs random aesthetic quirks, so I'm not saying the issue is as imperative to be acknowledged, but the result is the same, for me. I can't make myself attracted to Vivienne and I can't make myself attracted to Iron Bull. My inability to have a romantic relationship with a woman is just an aesthetic thing, as far as I'm concerned. Women and men are not inherently different as far as personality goes, I'm just not sexually attracted to the aesthetic form of a woman. I understand that the need for representation of people with this orientation stems from the fact that we've been isolated and excluded historically, but when you boil it down to base, is it really that different than any other aesthetic quirk that precludes romantic attraction? I think some people can be pretty rude about the way they express their lack of attraction, but I can easily relate to it. Their great personality cannot change what someone finds sexually attractive in an aesthetic sense. And because of that, at least for me, their existence in the story will only ever fill the "friendship" aspect of my experience.
This isn't to say that their role in the story means any less to me, though. The friendship portion of the story is just as valuable to me as the romances. I said just a few pages ago that I wouldn't want to sacrifice friendship for a large amount of romances and I absolutely stand by that point. A game with 12 deeply developed romances and little to no friendship content would be as disappointing, to me, as a game with no romance content. My ideal is a level of balance, which I find to be about 2 companion choices for LIs per demographic, maybe with a couple additions here and there.
So, I guess what I'm getting to is, when you have a situation where a lot of people are requesting a romance for a certain character or a certain aesthetic type of character, what matters is how it's done, not that it's done. A cheap, low content line of dialog leading up to seeing them naked is definitely objectification. DA games have never really offered ****** material. People have to fill in with their own imagination, for that. Some do, no doubt, but that's not on Bioware. Writing a romance story surrounding the character that's interwoven in the main story, that highlights their intellect and that appeals to the players emotions over sexual titillation is, in my opinion, not at all objectifying. My bottom line is, romance is not inherently objectifying to the people in the relationship. Having attraction to another person (or character) doesn't inherently objectify them. What becomes objectifying is when you reduce that person or character down to their sex appeal. As long as the romances in DA continue to be an enhancement to the story, rather than an injection of gratuitous sexual titillation apart from the story, and they continue to primarily target the emotional tone of the player's experience, I don't think DA needs to worry much about overly objectifying characters by including them in the romance system.
Of course, I also think that writers shouldn't feel pressured to drastically change a character's personality or story to make them a romance. David Gaider doesn't need to make Cole grow up so he can be a romance, if he doesn't feel that's the right path for his character. Maybe just consider in the future that a decent amount of people took interest in the possibility of a pretty, younger male LI, from a physical standpoint. If Mary Kirby always wanted Varric to reconcile with Bianca, then she shouldn't have to axe that plot build up to make Varric a LI. Maybe just consider there's an interest for a "bro LI", like the popular dynamic with Garrus in ME. If it's not working with the character people are interested in, maybe consider what people like about that character and consider whether it would work to incorporate into another character that makes a better LI candidate later on. They shouldn't feel like they have to find a slot for these characters, but I think it's worth considering what elements people are looking for, if there's room to fit them in.
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). At any rate, thnx again, Allan, for your openness and honesty on these issues. You're Top Shelf.
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