12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Divine Justinia V]

/headdesk

[jlb524]

Honestly, I think there's just a prevailing feeling that no AAA game would do something for representation purposes that really cut the straight male options in a substantial way. The general opinion is that the NPC romances are lesser. This is especially so with the option theoretically being Scribbles, because Cullen is a very popular character that's been in all three games, where as she's completely new and so far we know nothing about her. Cassandra is popular because she's been represented so often, but Sera is the most conventionally attractive LI. It's pretty clear that a decent amount of straight guys will want access to both. Neither of them are anywhere near the same as gating off Traynor. There's never been an instance that I know of in gaming where anyone's made a decision like this, so it would be shocking and unprecedented. 

 

I really hope they do it, though. I hope Scribbles is the bi option and everyone gets equal options. I would have just as soon they made all the options available to everyone, but if they're going to opt with gating, I hope they do it in an even way and don't just continue favoring straight guys, as gating has done in every game except DA2, that I'm aware of. 

 

Yeah, this is where I'm coming from and it's what annoys me about this.

[The Elder King]

They don't count towards what is considered to be my 'options'.
 
My best case scenario would be 3 female and 3 male companion LIs with Cullen counting as a bonus.

I honestly doubt they'll follow DA2's route of giving another male LI again.

[Master Warder Z_]

I honestly doubt they'll follow DA2's route of giving another male LI again.

 

They really should.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I do share the concern of the strain of 8 li's but on the other side is my much greater concern about not having companion li choice we had in da2. Sadly I'm at degrees of negative due to what I feel is needless gating.

I understand, the system as we know it seems to be set up as lose/lose for a lot of people. Our options are;

 

-6 LIs with 2 as NPCs

This could result in either some or all demographics having only one companions LI. At best, nobody has 2 companion LIs. At worst, some people get 2 and some only one.

-8 LIs with 2 NPCs

This could result in content for characters being damaged overall, which is really unfortunate and kicks enjoyment down a notch for anyone strongly invested in character development.

-6 LIs with Cullen as one male LI

In this case, straight women/gay men or both get screwed over worse than everyone else. Traditionally, straight women get a worse deal than straight men and gay men get the worst options of all, so this is a really unfortunate choice, if true.

-7 LIs with Cullen as an extra LI

In this scenario, straight women/gay men or both get an extra LI option, which still throws off the balance, overall.

 

All of the choices with NPC romances seem to have major drawbacks, to me. I just can't find a way that this system seems better than the 4 bi companion route we'd expected. I guess the last option would actually be comparable to DA2, since Sebastian was an extra heterosexual male. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Thinking about attraction, I'm beginning to realize that the DA team continually subverts my expectations.  Someone that might not be my type upon first appearance can (and has) turned into my favorite LI.  I want to make it clear that I have never called a companion ugly.  I was taken a little aback by the heavy stylization of the elves in DA2, but that grew on me.  I personally never thought they were ugly either, even though I wasn't a fan of the art style at first.

 

This is a few of the examples of DA characters that have surprised me, despite their appearance (note: I am putting Varric on the this list.  It isn't because I expect him to be a LI, but I'll get to that.)

 

Alistair--I'll be frank: I'm not typically attracted to blonde haired chiseled-jawed men, and upon first glance, Alistair seemed cute and nothing more.  Imagine my pleasant surprise when I began to get to know him.  As the game progressed, I realized that he was more than just the pretty-boy ex Templar.  He turned into my favorite romance in Origins.

 

Varric--Okay, he obviously is not a LI, nor is this meant to be a "I must haz Varric as romance now!" comment.  I can say that in fantasy games, I'm usually not attracted to dwarves.  While I could obviously tell he was decent looking, he wasn't my type.  Once I got to know him, and realized his sense of humor; loyalty; adventure, I find him the cutest in the cast.  For what it's worth, I'm very happy that the DA team did such a good job with his personality.  His friendship in DA2 makes some of the very dark moments a little brighter.  He certainly doesn't need to be my LI for that...though it would be nice.  

 

Isabela--Physically, I can see the appeal but she wasn't my type upon first glance.  The whole "lusty pirate" shtick has been rather done to death (for both genders) and I rolled my eyes thinking, "Oh great, there's another one."  Again, imagine my surprise when I found a whole other side to her, that made that physical appearance become appealing to me.  Her softer side is one of the most vulnerable aspects I've seen on a companion so far.

 

When it comes to the companions for the upcoming game, I think it's a good thing that some of the cast is unconventionally attractive.  

 

Solas looks awesome, and that elves really rock the bald look.  He very much says, "Apostate and laying low," which fits the circumstances leading up to the game.

 

Iron Bull looks like mercenary Qunari should, and has a great smile based on some of his art.  

 

Sera is more conventionally pretty, and blondes aren't to my taste usually  Still, she has a rather unique haircut and a smirk that I already like.  

 

Cassandra's scar and more square features suit her very well.  In my opinion, she's the best looking out of the women because she looks the most real to me.  Not too pretty or otherworldly, but like someone I could meet, befriend and even date IRL.  The dark hair and the gold eyes really just look great on her.

 

Vivienne looks killer (play on words intended) and very glamorous.  Her clothes are so fashionable that if there was an annual fashion show in Orlais, she'd rule the runway every time.  That being said though, she's a little too high-fashion for my taste.    I prefer women in clothing that is a little more suitable for long traveling.  I know, I know gameplay story segregation at work here, but it's still a minor pet peeve.  Her personality, on the other hand, seems way too caustic for me, much like Morrigan.  However, that aside, Morrigan is my favorite friendship in Origins, so I can see Vivi and I getting along.

 

Varric looks utterly fantastic!  I'll admit the recent trailer made me melt a bit, especially when he flashed that smile.  Again, regardless of his LI status, even if he's a friend, I can enjoy the adventure with him and quietly crush on him.  

 

"Dorian's" look is pretty sharp.  The combo of black hair and blue eyes is really stellar and his more pale features bring that all those colors out.  His facial hair is sodding awesome, and he looks like a bit of a male fashion plate to compliment Vivi.  Well, not to as great of a degree, but I still see a fashionable looking guy.  I'll admit that, as far as direct appearance, he isn't to my taste.  Still, there is nothing about him that is ugly.

 

 

My point to all of this, Allan, is to show you that I'm at least not judging characters as ugly, even if some of the companions aren't my usual type.  

 

_{I left out Cole on purpose.  While a cute enough kid, he's not certainly someone I would ever want as a LI.  No offense to those that do, but he's far too much like a child for me.}

[The Elder King]

They really should.

Why?

[Jagged Orchid]

They really should.

 

Why though? I didn't even see the point the 1st time around.

 

Unless it's to say, oh, now straight women have more options than straight dudes. Even then, it comes back to it being sub par. Yeah, there was an extra option, but it didn't count towards the romance achievement, nor was it a well developed or involved romance. 

 

I'd rather they focus more on developing the existing romances, rather than throw in a half developed attempt  That gives the impression that it was only included to shut someone up. If you're going to do it, do it right.

[Maria Caliban]

I don't think having one less possible romance or having a non-companion romance is being screwed over.

I also find the 'Scribbles is a love interest because Cullen is a love interest' sentiment bizarre. Even if we assume that they'll have one male and one female non-companion LIs, there is probably more than one female non-companion character that we could romance.

People are attempting to create a symmetry here that no BioWare dev has expresses interest in.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

To me, Cullen being an extra hetero romance (or bi) would still be better than any other option I see. Right now, I feel it's more damage control. My ideal is already shot down. This seems like the second best option out of the ones we have left. 

[wright1978]

To me, Cullen being an extra hetero romance (or bi) would still be better than any other option I see. Right now, I feel it's more damage control. My ideal is already shot down. This seems like the second best option out of the ones we have left.

Yeah I'd see this as best option remaining too.

[Gwydden]

It's kind of weird how many people seem willing to shoot down NPC romances as "inferior" or "unfair" already.

[javeart]

(...) Cassandra is popular because she's been represented so often, but Sera is the most conventionally attractive LI. It's pretty clear that a decent amount of straight guys will want access to both. Neither of them are anywhere near the same as gating off Traynor. There's never been an instance that I know of in gaming where anyone's made a decision like this, so it would be shocking and unprecedented. (...)

 

 

I'd certainly be very surprised. They also seem to be this kind of almost perfect opposites that is so common between female LIs in BW games (like Morrigan vs Leliana, and Isabella vs Merrill, Ashley vs Liara and Miranda vs Jack). I'm betting on 2 bi female companions, anyway, because I totally bought the 5 LIs theory (they always seem to be reluctant to do one more romance than needed and never confirmed that there would an equal and simtreical number of gay, straight and bi LIs) and I also have the feeling that Cullen is going to be bi. 

[Jagged Orchid]

It's kind of weird how many people seem willing to shoot down NPC romances as "inferior" or "unfair" already.

 

 

I think it just depends on a persons play style. They can create a really well developed NPC romance. I'm not going to say that that is not possible. 

 

I can't speak for anyone else. However, when I play I enjoy taking my LI with me when I'm out questing etc. So already I'm missing out of party banter. I'm missing out on my LI commenting on random events as we explore Thedas etc. 

 

I'll also say this. My concern isn't so much that the NPC romance is going to be horrible, it's more that it's going to be my ONLY option. That's when it's not so much a choice, but being forced to settle.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

It's kind of weird how many people seem willing to shoot down NPC romances as "inferior" or "unfair" already.

 

 

I've mentioned this before, but for me, it's due to previous experience of this content.  No, I didn't play the Mass Effect games, but I am going by previous BW attempts, such as Neverwinter Nights.  I'm pretty leery of it, and a lot of it involves simply time spent with the NPC versus a party member.  By default, no matter how you slice it, the companions that we travel with will be the people we will be with for the majority of the game.  This will be the ones that we'll be able to choose for the majority of quests at will, as well as initiate dialogue in the field, hear inner-party banter, ect.   As a result, there is an element of concern that the NPC romances won't be as meaningful, since it's much more gated by location and plot.  

 

As a skeptic, I was curious and asked folks that have enjoyed NPC romances to give me some reasons why they found it memorable.   I received some very good answers and while some doubt remains, I can see the potential in NPC romances.  Quantity doesn't equal quality after all.  Perhaps the time we won't spend with them directly in the game will allow for some more long and dialogue heavy moments when we can talk to them, where we can ask questions and get to know people like, say, "Scribbles."   I'm still in the cautious and leery camp about this, but I am going forward with an open mind.

 

Besides, if there is NPC romances and I turn out still not a fan of them,  I'm not going to let that bother me.  Either I'll attempt another LI option that's in my party, or stay single my first time around.  If nothing else, I could very well change my mind about any LI (NPC or no) after I play through the game once and get to know them.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I've explained before, but I'll try to briefly restate, the thing that makes NPC romances inferior, to me, is that I consider the entire relationship with an LI to be part of what shapes their romantic arc with me. I look at it as an organic progression, not as separate content in a game mechanics sense. When we're talking about quests and their faction knowledge, that's part of my relationship with them. When we're killing things together on a quest, that's part of my relationship with them. When someone gives the usual call that they went down in battle, that effects the tone of a boss fight, for me. Everything involving that character effects the story through the lens of our romantic relationship. This is how it would be if you were real people, everything would shape your opinion about them and the tone of the relationship, not just the romance specific conversations you had. 

 

A character being an NPC loses so much content and time spent together inherently. There is simply no way around this. The majority of the game is not going to be spent in camp or at Skyhold. It's going to be spent on missions. With a companion, I can take them and feel the story played out in a way that they were a part of all the key moments of the overall adventure. They're not limited to talking about it when I get back, or giving me advice about what they think I should do when I get there. They're a part of everything, and that means a lot to the story, to me. I would lose a lot of what's important to me about the experience by choosing an NPC LI. The only way to change that is literally making them a companion.           

[wright1978]

It's kind of weird how many people seem willing to shoot down NPC romances as "inferior" or "unfair" already.

The affection and romance experience also includes adventuring, getting to know them better through their banter with other companions and input during quests. I certainly found having my me2 companion romance degraded to a me3 npc romance disagreeable. There's no way IMO that a npc romance can be anything but inferior.

[N7_5P3CTR3]

I love the set sexualities from a character development pov. It allows for a more fully fleshed out individuals with their own wants and needs. Relationships can have more breadth and depth because the characters involved do. Not just the romances, I feel that the bromances/friendships are going to be as detailed as the romances minus the smooching. I don't feel that adding more LI means worse/less content, it means more variety. With the development of new game engines, consoles and PCs the cost of game production goes down, which allows the development team more freedom. As tech evolves I only expect this to expand.

 

As for the NPC LI debate, I think we're going to see a level of action and interaction with NPCs that will put them on par with the companions.

 

I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's concerns, I've read some very valid points from all sides of the conversation.

Just sharing my take on it all.

 

Oh, and FYI if you care, I prefer "adult" love scenes in my adult games, but I think that content should be optional via on/off toggle or day 1 dlc.

 

edit: decided to add

 

What I think.

B: Scribe

B: Cass

S: Sera

L: Viv

 

B: Cullen

B: Dorian

S: GW

G: Solas

What I would like is this plus Varric and IB only for their respective races but bi.

[Divine Justinia V]

It's kind of weird how many people seem willing to shoot down NPC romances as "inferior" or "unfair" already.

 

I'll try to be quick and simple

 

I just don't like not being able to kill things with my LI

[Grieving Natashina]

The affection and romance experience also includes adventuring, getting to know them better through their banter with other companions and input during quests. I certainly found having my me2 companion romance degraded to a me3 npc romance disagreeable. There's no way IMO that a npc romance can be anything but inferior.

To be fair, was it because it was a NPC romance, or was it because it went from a companion to NPC romance?

[WildOrchid]

 

What I think.

B: Scribe

B: Cass

S: Sera

L: Viv

 

 

This suits me just fine.

[wright1978]

To be fair, was it because it was a NPC romance, or was it because it went from a companion to NPC romance?

Because it was a npc. See mort de minuit's post further up page, it puts it much more elegantly than I can, that every facet of interaction plays into romance.

[Former_Fiend]

I'm just not as attached to the taking the LI with you aspect, I suppose. I don't dislike it, I see the value in it. But I see the value in the alternative as well.

[azarhal]

But the devs don't randomly choose their characters sexual orientations, I assume.  It will be very deliberate if, for instance, Cassandra is with our characters for most of the game, has most involvement with the main plot, and is romanceable by male player characters only.  In that case, having two other choices, especially if one is a non-companion, and the other is less involved in the main plot and optional, will feel lesser, at least to me.

 

But they are not lesser.

 

Nobody get treated unfairly because they decided to play a dwarf or an elf in DAO or didn't romance Alistair/Morrigan (ok maybe the dwarf/romance did get treated unfairly). They still get to play through the game main plot, defeat the last boss and get an ending based on their decisions just like everyone finishing the game would. Choices exist so you can replay the game and get a totally different experience out of it. The concept of "lesser" and "main" is based on the preconceived notion of  "perfect playthrough", but the game is not designed with that concept. All playthroughs are equivalent.

Morrigan and Alistair involvements in the main plot was totally disassociated from them being romance. Morrigan still made the DR offer even if you kicked her out of the group earlier in the game. Alistair still become king, warden or a drunk even if you do not romance him.  I don't see that changing for DAI.

 

Not romancing Cassandra isn't going to change the game main plot, it's only going to change your emotional investment in her character, but it doesn't mean it's going to be a lesser emotional investment than if you romanced her...

[Sylvianus]

Franckly, I wish Cullen was an extra and BI, a full romance as well for gay men and straight female so we could have only companions as Lis. I wouldn't care at all if my gender had less options with female companions. Just give me several choices between companions please.