12496 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

can we not talk about rape in this thread? thanks

 

Why can't we talk about something that's present in the franchise that we are discussing, on multiple occasions? 

[N7_5P3CTR3]

The premise of your argument is that set sexualities allow for party members to be "better fleshed out".

 

In what way did DA2's method for dealing with romances prevent the characters from being "fleshed out"?

Once again, where did I say it prevented anything? It will how ever allow the writer's to have a concrete view on the characters in relation to how they will interact with others based on their sexual preferences.

[syllogi]

But they are not lesser.

 

Nobody get treated unfairly because they decided to play a dwarf or an elf in DAO or didn't romance Alistair/Morrigan (ok maybe the dwarf/romance did get treated unfairly). They still get to play through the game main plot, defeat the last boss and get an ending based on their decisions just like everyone finishing the game would. Choices exist so you can replay the game and get a totally different experience out of it. The concept of "lesser" and "main" is based on the preconceived notion of  "perfect playthrough", but the game is not designed with that concept. All playthroughs are equivalent.

Morrigan and Alistair involvements in the main plot was totally disassociated from them being romance. Morrigan still made the DR offer even if you kicked her out of the group earlier in the game. Alistair still become king, warden or a drunk even if you do not romance him.  I don't see that changing for DAI.

 

Not romancing Cassandra isn't going to change the game main plot, it's only going to change your emotional investment in her character, but it doesn't mean it's going to be a lesser emotional investment than if you romanced her...

 

You have no idea if the bolded is true yet.  And I absolutely think that Alistair and Morrigan's involvement in the main plot of DA:O gave their romances more emotional weight.  There are tons of female Warden players who are still emotionally scarred by Alistair dumping their characters, or were more attached to their Couslands because they could marry them to him.  There are tons of male Warden players who are still making threads about their character's son with Morrigan, and what the implication of going through the mirror with her in Witch Hunt may be in DA:I.  Leliana and Zevran fans, no matter how much they adore their romances, don't have the same kind of plot relevance to the romances their characters had.

 

Generally, I don't really have an opinion of romanceable characters until I've done at least one playthrough of a game.  When I first played KOTOR, I was struck by how much more I would have enjoyed the game if Bastila had been the love interest of a female Revan, and in ME2, the only new squadmate that would have been plot relevant and interesting to me as a romance was Miranda.  But because I only play female characters, there was no chance to replay those games with more emotional investment in the plot that those romances might have held.

 

Even being able to fight for Isabela at the end of Act 2 of DA2 was a huge deal to me.  *You* may not feel more of an emotional investment in the main plot when romanceable characters are tied to the story, but others do, and it's one of the reasons I enjoy Bioware rpgs.  Not getting to experience attachment to the story because I want to have a same sex romance would be disappointing.  Very familiar, but disappointing.

[Mockingword]

I think the issue is that there's an assumption being made that set sexualities are going to create a wellspring of content that couldn't exist if those characters were playersexual.

"You're straight? How very interesting, tell me more!"

 

"You're gay? Wow, so revolutionary. As a forward-thinker, I am impressed by this."

 

"You're bisexual? Gross, you must be a shallow **** who sleeps with eeeerrybody."

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't think many people are saying bisexual characters aren't fleshed out/one can't flesh out bisexual characters.

 

However, if you don't constrain yourself by the rule of "Every love interest has to be available to everyone." it allows greater freedom in the types of character stories you develop for love interests. Which is a good thing I think.

What types of character stories can't be available to everyone?

[Divine Justinia V]

Why can't we talk about something that's present in the franchise that we are discussing, on multiple occasions? 

 

because it has nothing to do with dragon age inquisition romances and the thread is entitled 'romance discussion' in the dragon age inquisition forum

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Once again, where did I say it prevented anything? It will how ever allow the writer's to have a concrete view on the characters in relation to how they will interact with others based on their sexual preferences.

Just have each character have, and sorry if this offends but there is no better term for it, a heterosexual path and a homosexual path. DA2 had this to an extent, so just expand on that. 

 

Or just leave them sexually ambiguous.

[Mockingword]

I don't think many people are saying bisexual characters aren't fleshed out/one can't flesh out bisexual characters.

 

However, if you don't constrain yourself by the rule of "Every love interest has to be available to everyone." it allows greater freedom in the types of character stories you develop for love interests. Which is a good thing I think.

Oh for... HOW, exactly?

 

Give me examples of a character stories that can only be achieved by a straight character and a gay character respectively, and then explain to me, as you would to a child, why these same stories would not work for a bisexual character.

[KainD]

because it has nothing to do with dragon age inquisition romances and the thread is entitled 'romance discussion' in the dragon age inquisition forum

 

We are discussing sexualities, to help understand more how companion sexualities might work. You are a proud queen of off-topic yourself sometimes, while I am genuinely interested in finding some answers in a topic that is closely related. 

[syllogi]

Once again, where did I say it prevented anything? It will how ever allow the writer's to have a concrete view on the characters in relation to how they will interact with others based on their sexual preferences.

 

How would Fenris have been different in how he interacted with others if he had been a gay only romanceable character?

 

What about Merrill?  How would she have changed if she were only romanceable by male characters?

 

I always ask in these threads how these two characters would change if they had "solid" sexualities, and nobody ever tells me.

[Divine Justinia V]

We are discussing sexualities, to help understand more how companion sexualities might work. You are a proud queen of off-topic yourself sometimes, while I am genuinely interested in finding some answers in a topic that is closely related. 

 

Please don't compare what I talk about OT in threads to you guys discussing what constitutes as rape/rape in general. It has absolutely nothing to do with the thread and can be very uncomfortable.

[Mockingword]

How would Fenris have been different in how he interacted with others if he had been a gay only romanceable character?

 

What about Merrill?  How would she have changed if she were only romanceable by male characters?

 

I always ask in these threads how these two characters would change if they had "solid" sexualities, and nobody ever tells me.

If you have to ask, then you can never know. ):

[AresKeith]

We are discussing sexualities, to help understand more how companion sexualities might work. You are a proud queen of off-topic yourself sometimes, while I am genuinely interested in finding some answers in a topic that is closely related. 

 

and rape has nothing to do with that, so either drop it or take it to PMs

[KainD]

Please don't compare what I talk about OT in threads to you guys discussing what constitutes as rape/rape in general. It has absolutely nothing to do with the thread and can be very uncomfortable.

 

Ok, so off-topic is fine as long as it is comfortable, but as soon as someone dislikes it, it becomes the ''real'' off-topic. Fair enough.. I guess? 

Yet the topic is still present in the franchise, as I already mentioned. Everybody here got through the game content right? Or was it also uncomfortable? 

[Shadow Fox]

because it has nothing to do with dragon age inquisition romances and the thread is entitled 'romance discussion' in the dragon age inquisition forum

And because someone will say something insensitive,stupid and offensive which will cause a flamewar.

[myahele]

Yeah, lets leave the rape talk to a different thread, since it has nothing to do with ingame romance.

[Divine Justinia V]

Ok, so off-topic is fine as long as it is comfortable, but as soon as someone dislikes it, it becomes the ''real'' off-topic. Fair enough.. I guess? 

Yet the topic is still present in the franchise, as I already mentioned. Everybody here got through the game content right? Or was it also uncomfortable? 

 

I would assume it's common sense to not talk about something like that and also being insulting while doing so.

[pallascedar]

What types of character stories can't be available to everyone?

First off: Thedas may be progressive, but being a homosexual even in the most progressive world is still a very different experience than being gay. And I'm always a little bit personally skeptical of people who say their sexuality has no bearing on who they are: I'm my own person and I'm much more than gay, but my sexuality has helped to shape many important aspects of my personality.

 

Even if Thedas isn't homophobic it is certainly hetero-normative (or at least it's been presented in that way). Gay characters might have faced pressure from their parents or society to associate with the opposite sex due to procreative or political reasons. It's entirely possible, I realize, to tell these sorts of stories with bisexual characters, but I agree with the sentiment that not every character should be available to everyone because "fair".

 

And frankly, just the story of a gay person living in a fantasy world is a pretty unique one in general. I've never seen it told in a video game before.

[KainD]

I would assume it's common sense to not talk about something so like that and also being insulting while doing so.

 

Guess not? Not like I'm trying to insult someone in particular or promote some acts. I just don't see why all aspects of life can't be discussed calmly, without hitting a brick wall just by mentioning it. 

[karushna5]

The premise of your argument is that set sexualities allow for party members to be "better fleshed out".
 
In what way did DA2's method for dealing with romances prevent the characters from being "fleshed out"?

There was "something" off about those romances, but that was because like most of the game most of the characters seemed a tad bit rushed. I think people want to attribute their slightly 2 dimensionalness to their sexuality rather than the games slight lack of depth in general. I love the game, but there are limitations.

But that is like saying the combat was bad because everyone had similiar stances. It doesnt make sense.

[KainD]

Yeah, lets leave the rape talk to a different thread, since it has nothing to do with ingame romance.

 

Fenris... 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

First off: Thedas may be progressive, but being a homosexual even in the most progressive world is still a very different experience than being gay. And I'm always a little bit personally skeptical of people who say their sexuality has no bearing on who they are: I'm my own person and I'm much more than gay, but my sexuality has helped to shape many important aspects of my personality.

 

Even if Thedas isn't homophobic it is certainly hetero-normative (or at least it's been presented in that way). Gay characters might have faced pressure from their parents or society to associate with the opposite sex due to procreative or political reasons. It's entirely possible, I realize, to tell these sorts of stories with bisexual characters, but I agree with the sentiment that not every character should be available to everyone because "fair".

 

And frankly, just the story of a gay person living in a fantasy world is a pretty unique one in general. I've never seen it told in a video game before.

I'm still not seeing from this what sort of romance story a homosexual LI could have that a bisexual couldn't have. I'm not at all fond of the "troubles of being gay" route, but it could be told just as easy with a bisexual character, if they feel they absolutely have to do it.

 

They could have companions and NPCs that are gay without making them LIs. Celene is a lesbian.  

[Divine Justinia V]

Guess not? Not like I'm trying to insult someone in particular or promote some acts. I just don't see why all aspects of life can't be discussed calmly, without hitting a brick wall just by mentioning it. 

 

it's a touchy subject that makes a lot of people, including myself, uncomfortable. It also has nothing to do with the thread and I'm asking you to please take that subject to PMs.

[KainD]

it's a touchy subject that makes a lot of people, including myself, uncomfortable. It also has nothing to do with the thread and I'm asking you to please take that subject to PMs.

 

Alright, I'll show respect and take it to PM, on the next quote answer, when/if it comes. Only shame is not everybody has the same rights on the subjects, but oh well.. 

[Mockingword]

Okay, stereotypical "being gay is so haaaaaaaaard" dreck. That's the kind of story we're talking about.

 

I think I can live without that. In fact, I'd rather shoot myself in the head before I put up with another one of those.

 

My sexuality is just one of the many, many aspects of what makes me who I am. It doesn't shape my personality any more than my dislike of cats or my love for pepperoni pizza. The only reason it seems to matter more than those things is because I won't be discriminated against or possibly attacked for hating cats or eating pizza.

 

My sexuality isn't nearly as important to me as it is to other people who are completely unaffected by it.