12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Isaidlunch]

I'm sure many women don't, but the most popular hetero relationships in fiction are grossly unhealthy to a one.

 

I mean, people who dump on Twilight often look to Buffy as some sort of flawless, uber-feminist conter-argument. I'm like "Uhhh... any of you actually watch the show? Cause I seem to remember Spike being so obsessed with Buffy that he kept a robot sex-slave version of her around his gross cave. Also, I remember her having sex with him while pretending to be that robot."

 

Wow. That's, uh... wow.

 

I HC it as him being a secretive bastard but he really should've told both genders Hawke.

 

I don't know why the devs tried to cater to those "oooh bi guys are icky." types.

 

Speaking of that, I have to wonder how they would handle Cullen if he turned out to be bi. I wouldn't be surprised if he was simply playersexual. After all, the topic can't come up with a FemQuisitor if he's attracted to someone who doesn't even exist in that universe.

[In Exile]

Speaking of that, I have to wonder how they would handle Cullen if he turned out to be bi. I wouldn't be surprised if he was simply playersexual. After all, the topic can't come up with a FemQuisitor if he's attracted to someone who doesn't even exist in that universe.

 

Cullen was secretly in love with Anders. Obviously. That's why you can rat him out and Cullen does nothing. He goes after Anders, they fight, but it just ends in a night of steamy, steamy abomination-templar sex. 

[Mockingword]

Cullen was secretly in love with Anders. Obviously. That's why you can rat him out and Cullen does nothing. He goes after Anders, they fight, but it just ends in a night of steamy, steamy abomination-templar sex. 

Down with it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Pretty much this. That's why Cass is the most desirable romance (for ladies and guys).

 

How will these people react if they learn that Cassandra's influence with the main plot is not as much as they believe it will be?  Especially compared to other characters?

 

Will they feel justified in feeling mislead or betrayed because their romance was the one they didn't really like?

[N7_5P3CTR3]

How about I come at this from a different angle.

 

DA2:

There were not 4 LI , there were 8. There were 4 for male, 4 for female.

There were only 4 major romance story arcs with minor variation between the male and female sub categories.

Because in a player sexual game, you are the LI.

 

DAI:(based on my best guess list)

There will be 8 LI. There will be 4 for male, 4 for female.

There will be 8 major romance arcs with minor variation for deep friendship if gender gate applies.

Because in a set sexuality game (made by BioWare) can have it both ways. Quality and Quantity.

[Mockingword]

In fact, I have actually mused to myself (and to friends and colleagues) about how it would go over if the "clearly hot" characters were not the romanceable ones.

I know Mort de Minuit sheds a silent tear whenever I bring up Cole.

[Allan Schumacher]

Thinking about attraction, I'm beginning to realize that the DA team continually subverts my expectations.  Someone that might not be my type upon first appearance can (and has) turned into my favorite LI.

 

This is ridiculously interesting for me to see.  Subverting expectations is very much along the lines of something that is both challenging (and therefore interesting to attempt) while at the same time very rewarding when we're successful.

[Grieving Natashina]

This is ridiculously interesting for me to see.  Subverting expectations is very much along the lines of something that is both challenging (and therefore interesting to attempt) while at the same time very rewarding when we're successful.

Haha, well your co-workers have done it a few times to me now.  

[Mockingword]

Meh. Morrigan and Alistair might've been important, but I ended up appreciating the super minor Tamlen romance for the Dalish more than anything. It shaped my character concept better than anything.

I suppose this is one of those things I didn't see because I played a male Dalish elf. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I know Mort de Minuit sheds a silent tear whenever I bring up Cole.

[In Exile]

Meh. Morrigan and Alistair might've been important, but I ended up appreciating the super minor Tamlen romance for the Dalish more than anything. It shaped my character concept better than anything.

 

edit: I don't care about the romance per se. Just what had narrative strength.

 

All of them have their niche though.

 

Alistair was important to the plot, but honestly I think I'm fortunate to have never really gone through that romance seeing how it ends. 

[JadePrince]

I suppose this is one of those things I didn't see because I played a male Dalish elf. 

 

Haha I was just about to say-- it would have been a really formative relationship for my Dalish elf too, but I guess Tamlen wasn't into dudes. :/ 

 

I really hope, all around, that in DA:I we see more 'set sexualities' in the world in general. There is a LOT of offhand heteronormativity in the first two games. I saw a lot of implied hetero relationships in the origin stories and a lot of chances for a dude PC to flirt/kiss/express interest in various women we encounter. There's also a lot of straight couples and relationships that we just encounter. 

 

I was stoked that Branka ditched Oghren for a chick (even though Branka's storyline was horrifically tragic) because at least it confirmed for me that queerness exists in Thedas outside my PC and his romance with Zevran. That's the stuff I want to see more of. 

 

EDIT: My biggest worry, honestly, is that the only queer characters will be among the LIs and that everyone else in Thedas will be straight (or assumed to be straight since, with a lack of evidence, our society presumes straight as the default). I guess the Empress is supposed to be queer, but do you think we'll actually get to see this canonly stated in the game or will that be a bit of knowledge that only those who read the books will know about?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Cullen was secretly in love with Anders. Obviously. That's why you can rat him out and Cullen does nothing. He goes after Anders, they fight, but it just ends in a night of steamy, steamy abomination-templar sex. 

That sounds like DLC I would have totally paid for.

 

How will these people react if they learn that Cassandra's influence with the main plot is not as much as they believe it will be?  Especially compared to other characters?

 

Will they feel justified in feeling mislead or betrayed because their romance was the one they didn't really like?

I don't believe being plot-central and having a good enough romance are necessarily mutually exclusive. I imagine if people enjoy Cassandra's romance, it won't matter too much how relevant she is to the main story.

[Deviija]

Cullen was secretly in love with Anders. Obviously. That's why you can rat him out and Cullen does nothing. He goes after Anders, they fight, but it just ends in a night of steamy, steamy abomination-templar sex. 

Spoiler

 

I ship it.  

[Grieving Natashina]

 

 

EDIT: My biggest worry, honestly, is that the only queer characters will be among the LIs and that everyone else in Thedas will be straight (or assumed to be straight since, with a lack of evidence, our society presumes straight as the default). I guess the Empress is supposed to be queer, but do you think we'll actually get to see this canonly stated in the game or will that be a bit of knowledge that only those who read the books will know about?

Master Wade and Herren are a gay couple, and I'm not sure how players missed that:

 

 

Wade & Herren are definitely a couple. Always have been.

 

 

http://forum.bioware...vers/?bioware=1

 

 

 

Edit: Also, if we even deal with the Empress, how would you want the DA Team to address her sexuality?  Plus, why would she reveal it to the Inquisitor at all?  

 

Ack, just realized my tone could've come off as harsh.  My apologizes!  I am curious about the answers though.

[DragonRacer]

 

If the consequences are helping compromise our institutionalized perceptions of what is and is not attractive, then it's worth it to me.  Every single time.  I don't consider it a good thing that people see themselves as unattractive because they are bombarded with imagery that is different than them.  If a requirement for romance content is that they adhere to overexposed standards of beauty, then I don't think romance content is compelling.

 

Further, please do not take my statement as being surprised by people's reactions.  That doesn't mean that I still don't find them disheartening because, to me, the characters are a lot more than their looks (whether it be video games or elsewhere).  I've also become more socially aware that constantly perpetuating a particular impression of what is considered beautiful may not be a good thing.

 

Fully agree with all of this and the bolded underlined part especially.

 

I have actually found a lot of the romance talk and "rooting for" some of the brand new companions to be or not be love interests rather... interesting. I understand people get invested in looks first, since that's the first thing you see and for a lot of these companions it's the only thing we know about them. But I just sort of feel almost like an outsider looking in on these character threads because, well, I have no idea who of the new folks I'd really want to romance because I don't know them. Personality is important and the key factor to me. Even if someone is not "traditionally" attractive, if their personality captivates me, I'll fall for them anyway and grow to appreciate their looks, if that is even considered a "hurdle" (which I don't, but many in this thread seem to think that).

 

Just my two cents.

 

(Disclaimer: I mention being unsure of who'd be the "lead horse" in the new companions for my PC's romance because I do have a soft spot for Varric. Which I know makes you cringe, but, eh, I'm perfectly fine and happy if it's platonic once more. Varric's just a sweet and good guy, is all. ).

[Mockingword]

Haha I was just about to say-- it would have been a really formative relationship for my Dalish elf too, but I guess Tamlen wasn't into dudes. :/ 

 

I really hope, all around, that in DA:I we see more 'set sexualities' in the world in general. There is a LOT of offhand heteronormativity in the first two games. I saw a lot of implied hetero relationships in the origin stories and a lot of chances for a dude PC to flirt/kiss/express interest in various women we encounter. There's also a lot of straight couples and relationships that we just encounter. 

 

I was stoked that Branka ditched Oghren for a chick (even though Branka's storyline was horrifically tragic) because at least it confirmed for me that queerness exists in Thedas outside my PC and his romance with Zevran. That's the stuff I want to see more of. 

 

EDIT: My biggest worry, honestly, is that the only queer characters will be among the LIs and that everyone else in Thedas will be straight (or assumed to be straight since, with a lack of evidence, our society presumes straight as the default). I guess the Empress is supposed to be queer, but do you think we'll actually get to see this canonly stated in the game or will that be a bit of knowledge that only those who read the books will know about?

~Gay islands in the stream

That is what we are~

[Mockingword]

Shows how much I know. I would've thought Anders and Cullen fans would hate the idea.

Oh, I'm not a fan of Cullen. I just like the idea of Anders getting any vaguely likeable anti-mage dude to... switch teams, as it were.

 

Anders and Sebastian, Anders and Carver, Anders and Keran... hell, all three at once.

[JadePrince]

...

 

With the way my mind and my thoughts work, if someone is okay with Solas not being romanceable in a hypothetical Cullen/Scribe/Sera/DMHG bisexual romance situation, but they get upset if Solas is available in a 2/2/2, my brain still reads it as: "I'm upset because I want to romance a character, but I can't."  And while I can understand the perception that because others can romance that character, it feels "oh so close," I still mentally trip up and have a hard time seeing it as something other than "I'm upset because I want to romance a character, but I can't."  And I struggle, probably because of my own biases, for why it'd be okay to not romance Solas in the hypothetical 4 bisexual, but suddenly it's not okay once it's 2/2/2.  It strikes me as one of those very complicated "How do I ascertain when one person benefiting is just another person suffering?"  For any particular gender there's still two homosexual and two heterosexual pairings.  Bisexuals still have access to 4 love interests in both systems.  So I start to experience an uncomfortable amount of of very challenging cognitive dissonance because when all the quantity of choice is made equivalent and no group (save bisexuals - since I think they'll always benefit the most) is advantaged over the other, I feel a strong resistance to the idea of making a character romanceable simply because someone wants to romance that character. 

 

...

 

"If they are given 4 options, just like DA2 did, what does it mean when people say that they're okay with the character not being romanceable by anyone, but it makes them upset if they're romanceable by some people."

 

...

 

I think it's really as simple as "If I can't have that thing, it hurts less to know that noone else can either." For queer players, being denied something that a straight player can have just feels like twisting the knife. It's not unexpected (after all, we're largely forgotten in 99% of games), but since DA2 set this amazing, unexpected precedent of equality and fairness (in the numbers), going backwards to a situation like we had in DA:O feels a little like giving a gift and then taking it back. If DA2 had never happened, there were be a lot less hurt feelings (and probably fewer threads debating it!) because we wouldn't even know what we were missing.

 

I hope that makes sense and helps you understand a little better where I think at least your queer audience is coming from.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I would feel a lot better about "conventional beauty standards" being subverted if it didn't seem like most of the time that's way more slanted towards the male choices than the female choices.