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.speaking of voices, i will say that the quality and sound of the voice acting of a character plays a Huge role in how much i'm attracted, or not, to them.
tbh, it plays far, far more of a role than what the npc looks like.
Yes. The amount of mental gymnastics I have to do in order to not romance Fenris, who embodies just about everything I don't look for in a LI, when he opens his mouth and Gideon Emory's voice comes out......
.speaking of voices, i will say that the quality and sound of the voice acting of a character plays a Huge role in how much i'm attracted, or not, to them.
tbh, it plays far, far more of a role than what the npc looks like.
Agreed a sexy voice can make up for a bleh face but a cute face can't make up for a voice that grates on the ears.
Agreed a sexy voice can make up for a bleh face but a cute face can't make up for a voice that grates on the ears.
Your still hoping for Natasha Little 
Yes. The amount of mental gymnastics I have to do in order to not romance Fenris, who embodies just about everything I don't look for in a LI, when he opens his mouth and Gideon Emory's voice comes out......
Why not just mute your game when he is talking?
And once they find a weakness in a mod or anyone else of power that they will pick and pick and pick until you get so full of rage that you will want to quit. I've been a mod in a game before, sometimes you just need to take a step back and cool down. Take a day off, or just not read the topic you need to for a day.
I do this. Frequently. No one forces me to come here. When I'm upset, I stop coming. I have left for months at a time. (It's also possibly a problematic privilege. I silence people and am less able to understand and advocate for things that I think are excellent positions).
I'm not saying your veiws are bad or that your even hypersensitive.
Just as a note, it was me that admitted that I am hypersensitive to this issue in my large post. So when I take a comment of "don't worry about it," that part is included in the context of how I interpret the response even if you didn't state it. I'm already aware that I'm hypersensitive about it, and when I paraphrased my interpretation of what you were saying I didn't include "hypersensitive" as a you disparaging me, but rather an attempt to say "it's okay man it's not a big deal if you are." Brains are funny like that. When my brother was killed I had two giant triggers: someone being disrespectful towards him and and polite talk like "he's in a better place now" or "I know how you feel" (caveat, I was more tolerant of the latter if they lost someone unexpectedly). Even though I can understand that people say those words without any intent on being hurtful towards me.
I understand that people often are assholes. If someone wants to come in and tell me how much they hate our characters simply to get under my skin, they probably won't be very successful. And if they're particularly belligerent about it, they probably won't even be welcome here very long. I would stop posting for my own well being if I felt that they did get to me. Those aren't the ones that get to me.
But when dealing with content that I already have to put myself out of my own comfort zone for what is tolerable, seeing some of the stuff gets interpreted by my brain in ways I don't even want it to. The biggest one is typically "I don't understand" (and if you know me, I hate saying those words too). Now not understanding but having the tools to teach myself understanding can be a valuable thing: I can be very self-motivated in those situations and it has definitely helped a lot of times in my life. But when it's a struggle it's... well... a struggle and can induce anxiety and/or disengagement.
I didn't mean to convey with my post that I was at some sort of wits end with the topic, and how I'm just mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore. I was trying to describe to people why I find the topic a challenge (and I have for over 10 years) and how some things make me feel uncomfortable. The same way that other people will tell me (or BioWare in general) about how decisions we make can make them feel uncomfortable, and why I struggle to see a distinction between "A character is romanceable by no one, so I cannot romance this character" and "A character is not romanceable by me as this PC, so I cannot romance this character."
Especially if choice (and doubly so, the equivalence of choice) is still maintained. If someone is exclusive to me, but I also have my own exclusive content, it becomes (again, to me) analogous to having gender/race/class specific content. Obviously not everyone agrees. But reconciling some of the differing viewpoints as well as determining what it means to provide choice in an RPG. (If you go back to my first posts, ME3 time, you'll see me having discussions about how I view choice in RPGs as different from some people).
I'm not at wits end or about to snap with the topic. I suspect on some level I will always feel disappointment to see a character judged solely on their appearance, regardless of if it's my first time seeing such a judgment in years, or if I have dealt with it on a daily/weekly basis. I don't believe that taking a short break from the forum will make me any less sensitive to some of those assessments. It could be argued that exposing myself to them helps me understand what it is that people are meaning when they say those types of things, so that I am provided ammunition for my brain when it goes on some self-destructive interpretation of words that leads me drawing hurtful conclusions.
Shows how much I know. I would've thought Anders and Cullen fans would hate the idea.
Actually this is one of my favorite ships 
Why not just mute your game when he is talking?
And miss out on Gideon's voice? Blasphemy!
I'm not at wits end or about to snap with the topic. I suspect on some level I will always feel disappointment to see a character judged solely on their appearance, regardless of if it's my first time seeing such a judgment in years, or if I have dealt with it on a daily/weekly basis.
Do you think that these superficial judgments with die down as we get to know them based on other factors? Right now, we have pretty much only looks to go on for most of the 12 major characters from the last trailer.
We only know Leliana, Cassandra, Cullen, Varric, and Cole
We have character descriptions for Vivienne, Iron Bull, Sera, and Dorian (provided that DHMG even is Dorian), but nothing else
We know almost nothing about Solas, The Bearded Warden, and Scribe Girl (we don't even have names for two of them!)
I hope that the conversation will move away from looks and towards other facets of the characters as details get released. Although I do understand why you would find this frustrating given that you know so much more about the characters, including I'm sure some really amazing facts about their personalities and storylines, but then you have to read messages that are all focused on looks. I get it, but I'm hopeful that BSN will move on once we know more......right?
To the bolded portion. They already said the Big Bad will attack your strong hold at some point.
I suspect something like homos may get by, but restricting the first 4 letters universally would prevent me from using the term homosexual, which wouldn't be a good thing.
Just so you know, while "homosexual" isn't exactly a pejorative, it is kind of... dated. I'd go with gay, LGBT, or queer.
I like "ass bandit" or "butt pirate".
Makes me feel cool. .____.
Yeah, for me, it's gay > LGBT > homosexual > > > > > queer
I never really embraced queer. I get it's purpose, but I just don't use it (or like it) as a personal identifier.
Do you think that these superficial judgments with die down as we get to know them based on other factors? Right now, we have pretty much only looks to go on for most of the 12 major characters from the last trailer.
We only know Leliana, Cassandra, Cullen, Varric, and Cole
We have character descriptions for Vivienne, Iron Bull, Sera, and Dorian (provided that DHMG even is Dorian), but nothing else
We know almost nothing about Solas, The Bearded Warden, and Scribe Girl (we don't even have names for two of them!)
I hope that the conversation will move away from looks and towards other facets of the characters as details get released. Although I do understand why you would find this frustrating given that you know so much more about the characters, including I'm sure some really amazing facts about their personalities and storylines, but then you have to read messages that are all focused on looks. I get it, but I'm hopeful that BSN will move on once we know more......right?
I don't know. For some probably. For other probably not.
It's a bit tricky because details about the personality and characteristics are more likely to be iterated on throughout, while "the look" of the character can be established and not need much change more easily, I think.
Because really how Solas looks doesn't really have to say much about whether or not he is a jerk or if he is a kind person. I think if we can convey that simply based on how they look, it might have been something we could have done a bit better. But the alternative would be releasing nothing yet, and I am not really a fan of that since in general I think a lot of fans like getting information on the game, and especially the characters.
And some of the "oooo is he/she romanceable" is often cute, playful and fun (heck, two of the threads it could be argued I am an enabler). As well as a lot of the discussion about the look and what people may think about character based solely on their look. It's fun to see people make predictions, and see the ones that are way off and even more fun to see the ones that TOTALLY have nailed it (and extra fun to see people convince that person that they're not right).
And as I stated, I struggle with tone argument and knowing when am I just being crotchety because something is said in a way that I'm sensitive to, and when am I crotchety because there may be a valid reason for it. So when I see discussion around positive aspects, and I see people saying that Cassandra, or Beardy, or Solas are very attractive I recognize "hey, this pings for these people." But, like I said, I have my bias. If characters don't ping for me (and they rarely do in video games), I am perfectly okay with those that are happy being happy that a character resonates with them. I have probably been reinforced with this perspective as I became a developer.
I do get concerned when I see people starting to run away with assumption and/or expectations (whether positive). But tha's actually as someone that wants those people to enjoy the game. Again, there's bias since I (perhaps too liberally) apply my own experiences to others when it may not work out. But I find going into something with the expectation that it will be bad is often a self-fulfilling prophecy. By the same time I don't want people so enamoured with a particular character that expectations are so high and that despite all confidence that a character must be romanceable, only to find out that that character isn't. Which is why I try to encourage people to be open especially in light of not having all the information and context.
Yeah, for me, it's gay > LGBT > homosexual > > > > > queer
I never really embraced queer. I get it's purpose, but I just don't use it (or like it) as a personal identifier.
In my experience it was often used as a pejorative, and on top of that also used as a synonym for "weird" which I find problematic.
I tend to use homosexual because I'm using it in tandem with heterosexual. I will use the term gay, although I have been called out for misusing it by some (I historically equated the term with homosexual, and I had some people get upset with me using the term to refer to a lesbian... go figure :\). I tend to use gay in tandem with lesbian now (since it seems gay is often used in context to refer to m/m), or in tandem with straight. But I have reservations with straight for similar reasons for why I can understand how queer can be off putting.
How will these people react if they learn that Cassandra's influence with the main plot is not as much as they believe it will be? Especially compared to other characters?
Will they feel justified in feeling mislead or betrayed because their romance was the one they didn't really like?
Butt pirate is rather cool.I like "ass bandit" or "butt pirate".
Makes me feel cool. .____.
I think my larger argument is that being homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual is part of who a character is.
I think it depends on the world the character exists in. The character may exist in a milieu where sexuality doesn't really matter at all.
I also sort of hope that the most 'sought after' characters are the gay ones! Maybe it'd be an opportunity for straight folk to understand how it felt to fruitlessly pine after Alistair for 50+ hours of gameplay, hahaha...
In my experience it was often used as a pejorative, and on top of that also used as a synonym for "weird" which I find problematic.
Yes, this is exactly why I feel this way. Growing up in the 80's and 90's in a poor rural area, "queer" was not really something that I liked to hear. I know that it's been "reappropriated", but that feels like it's mostly by people a bit......younger than me.
With regard to the romance features, I tend to use gay/lesbian v. straight or m/f, f/f, m/m. I almost never use queer or homosexual/heterosexual.
But then again, I actually PM'd someone on BSN to help me understand the difference between pansexual and bisexual.....
I don't think "queer" has ever actually stopped being an insult to the majority. It's not really like it hasn't been used that way in a decade. I've been in areas where almost no one realizes that some people think it's been reclaimed, and that's within the last few years.
I consider homosexual the equivalent to heterosexual, it is just more clinical use of terms. It is valid and understandable if "queer" is uncomfortable. It is a reclaimed word that is getting used more frequently of late, to denote the wide umbrella of non-heterosexual sexualities, whereas in the past (and still today) it was considered to be very derogatory. I like the idea of its use in that vein, but it has taken me many years to warm up to the idea behind it. I still feel uncomfortable sometimes. Though that is likely due in large part to the term being used as a slur against me/around me when I was a kid*.
I tend to stick with the term non-hetero(sexual) -- even if it may sound clunky -- when discussing sexuality topics to try illustrating anything that is beyond heterosexuality and heteronormativity.
Edited to add: Like @daveliam, I'm a kid of the 80s and 90s, too, and even around progressive Seattle it was still a very derogatory term.
Because really how Solas looks doesn't really have to say much about whether or not he is a jerk or if he is a kind person.
Oh I'm sure Solas will be a wonderful character, well-written and full of fascinating depth. He is a BW character after all. I will love him.
Doesn't change the fact that he looks like a naked rat though.
In my experience it was often used as a pejorative, and on top of that also used as a synonym for "weird" which I find problematic.
"Queer" is a reclaimed word, kind of like the n-word or "b!tch." I see it in academia as queer studies so I'm more used to it, perhaps.
Really, though, "homosexual" is dated and kind of weird lol
"Queer" is a reclaimed word, kind of like the n-word or "b!tch." I see it in academia as queer studies so I'm more used to it, perhaps.
Really, though, "homosexual" is dated and kind of weird lol
Yeah, I get queer as an academic term (in fact, I've drawn on Queer Theory for some of my own research). I don't like it as an identifier in everyday discourse. I cringe a little bit everytime someone refers to me as queer, even though it's often other "queer" people who do it.
I don't think "queer" has ever actually stopped being an insult to the majority. It's not really like it hasn't been used that way in a decade. I've been in areas where almost no one realizes that some people think it's been reclaimed, and that's within the last few years.
I don't know. The Q is a relatively new addition to LGBTQ in my experience. Maybe I was less aware of it. But queer came up as a non-negative descriptor during the LGBTQ panel at PAX Prime. Someone came up to the mic and admittedly struggled with remembering the comment and Karin (if there's one person I would consider to be wholly in the camp of LGBTQ advocacy at BioWare, it's her) suggested to the nervous speaker to just say queer if they are struggling on how to frame the discussion.
(I see others pointing out that it appears to be a reclaimed word).
I use the words homosexual and heterosexual mostly because they are clinical and lacking in ambiguity. I have a reasonably high degree of confidence that what I am talking about will be clearly understood and any misunderstandings won't come by my use of the word.
Oh I'm sure Solas will be a wonderful character, well-written and full of fascinating depth.
The context of post was that Solas' look works for any type of personality, and as such it's easier for it to be finished. While the character interactions are the things that will receive more scrutiny, where people will give feedback and mention the things they do and do not like about the character. When I say Solas could be a jerk or kind, I literally mean that his look doesn't really convey much on the type of person he will be. People can have an assumption that Sera will be a particular type of character, but really there's not much stopping her from actually being completely opposite.
Yeah, I get queer as an academic term (in fact, I've drawn on Queer Theory for some of my own research). I don't like it as an identifier in everyday discourse. I cringe a little bit everytime someone refers to me as queer, even though it's often other "queer" people who do it.
It's like it can be used in an academic sense, literary, sociological, whatever. And as self-identifying. But I wouldn't call someone queer lol Hell no.
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