12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

He asks?

 

It's the "are you okay with it." variety I think.

[CuriousArtemis]

But when someone makes the statement "Their bisexuality needs to be obvious otherwise they aren't truly bisexual" it comes across as "if it's not clearly shown that someone is bisexual, then they aren't bisexual."

 

I'm getting confused. No, if it's not stated in lore that a character is bisexual then I don't just assume they're bisexual. If it's not stated in lore that they're straight or gay, then I don't assume they're straight or gay. 

 

And I'm talking about characters, not real people. I don't assume things about real people, but real people do, of course, have definite sexuality, whether that be bi, gay, straight, pan, ace, or whatever. 

 

 

And I have seen people state the opinion, on this very board, that bisexuality isn't real it's just that someone hasn't chosen a side yet.

 

Then those people are morons and aren't worth your or my time? LOL Seriously.

 

 

If I tell you that someone has been married in a monogamous relationship with a woman for 20 years, are you going to tell me that that person isn't truly bisexual because you've seen no indication of them being bisexual for those 20 years?  I wouldn't.

 

No, of course not; why on earth would you assume I'd think that?

 

 

And I think I can understand how it can be a frustrating thing if someone has spent their entire life having to convince people that they are in fact bisexual and they come on to a message board to discuss their favourite bisexual character and see a whole bunch of people say "they are not bisexual they are playersexual" or "there is nothing that happens that makes them truly bisexual."

 

Oh yes, as I said earlier, I can certainly see how it might be offensive to bi folks.

 

But there is a distinction between "bisexual" and "playersexual." 

 

Also, I can make the argument that nothing a character does proves she's bisexual, and I can also make the argument that nothing a character does proves she's straight, or proves she's gay. That's because characters can be changed and rewritten because they're characters, not real people. 

 

On that same token, a writer can state to her readers that a character was gay all along, and the readers have to accept it because that character's sexuality has become defined. 

 

But I can romance Fenris and say he's gay in my playthrough, and my friend can romance him and say he's straight in her playthrough, and my other friend can romance him and say he's bi in her playthrough, and unless Fenris' writer comes and tells us otherwise, we're all right, because nothing in the lore contradicts any of us. That's "playersexual." 

 

I understand the argument though, which is that, in my gay playthrough and in my friend's straight playthrough, Fenris could still be bisexual, even though he doesn't reveal this to Hawke or the player. That's true. And every NPC, every random templar, townsfolk, and city guard could be gay, straight, or bi; we just don't know. 

 

But take a game like Skyrim or Dragon's Dogma, games where you can virtually romance any character in the game regardless of gender. Is everyone in Skyrim or Gransys bisexual? I don't think the developers saw it that way. I think every character is just playersexual.

 

 

And yes, I feel that if you're making that statement about a video game character, based solely on the idea "because it's not made clear," is an almost identical position and one that makes me uncertain if that's fair or accurate.

 

I'm not sure what you mean here, to be honest. The sentence doesn't make sense.

[Deviija]

Am I the only female player that found Zevran's flirting to be far more creepier and off putting than Anders' one direct flirt in DA2?   I'm not talking about Zevran being honest about liking men, but the way he flirts in general for a few conversations before he gets the point to drop it.

 

Well... I find Zevran rather creepy in general, flirting or not.  I mean, the dude amiably and enthusiastically regales you with stories of having sex with his targets before murdering them, one time the target knowing he's their future killer.   So... yes.  

[Hellion Rex]

It's the "are you okay with it." variety I think.

That bugs me a tad, that he has to "check in" with the Warden to make sure she is ok with him being bisexual.

[jlb524]

Why should he have to have had an equal number of male and female lovers in the past though? It's not like bisexual people go "Oh my last lover was a woman, so it's time to pick a man now".

 

I think the issue is that the bisexual romance characters tend to favor opposite sex when it comes to comments on appearance, past lovers, etc.

 

This is generally speaking.  I think Isabela was skewed towards men though not as much as Zevran with women.  The other DA2 bisexuals don't have much in this area, but anything we do get seems to favor the opposite sex (Fenris hooking up with Isabela, for example).  Leliana might be the exception with the Marjolaine thing.

[SurelyForth]

He asks?

 

He asks if she's put off by his history of being with men and women, yes. It's...not comfortable.

 

I love Zevran, and tend to see his pattern of aggressive/obvious sexuality as a front for how he feels re: Rina (sp?) and the fact that he's never had a healthy romantic or sexual relationship with anyone. He's fun, but there are problematic aspects of his backstory that manifest in his romance, and while I consider his romance to be really fulfilling, I feel like he needed a lot of editing and revising to make all the attempted elements to work together comfortably, and to the satisfaction of those players most affected.

 

Also, it definitely bugs me that Anders doesn't mention Karl to F!Hawke, but I refuse to think he's straight because of it. My Hawke who romances Anders is pansexual. She never mentions it to him in the game, but that doesn't make her attraction to women or her brief relationship with Isabela any less of thing. 

[CuriousArtemis]

This, 100%. I mean, he asks your PERMISSION to even pay you a compliment if you're a guy. I do like that with Anders, they were a little more explicit about his attraction for you if you play a male character. It's one thing I'm glad about with Gaider's attitude these days. He gives 0 sh*ts about sparing the feewings of uncomfortable straight guys and he's said as much. 

 

There was that awful line with Fenris though: "Is it because I'm a man?" Grrrrrrrrr!

[Hellion Rex]

There was that awful line with Fenris though: "Is it because I'm a man?" Grrrrrrrrr!

Which one?

[Ryzaki]

Which one?

 

The diplo line after you sleep with him. I just use the funny one now.

[Ryzaki]

There was that awful line with Fenris though: "Is it because I'm a man?" Grrrrrrrrr!

 

To be fair Fenris completely brushes that off.

[Ianamus]

I feel like I should clear up my stance on this a bit:

 

I'm not against bisexual characters never outright saying they are bisexual, but what I don't like is the fact that all of the characters who have been openly bisexual were promiscuous, flirted with everyone and constantly had sex, or did in the past, while the bisexuals who weren't promiscuous and having sex all the time never mentioned or strongly hinted at it at all. 

 

As somebody who lives in a world where myself and most other bisexual people I know lie in the middle of those two extremes it does bother me that those two extremes are all we really see. 

 

My housemate has told me stories about making out with female friends when drunk, and how she went to the Universities LGBTQ society with a gay guy from her floor because he didn't want to go alone, and found the society fun. 

 

My sister once had a boyfriend who'd had an unrequited crush on a male friend in the past and had found it very difficult, and we often spoke about it.

 

People bring up their sexuality all the time, not only if they are promiscuous or slept with a lot of people in the past. There is nothing wrong with characters who don't mention it, but there are far more ways for characters to actually express their bisexuality than just flirting with the player and having sex with both genders frequently, like a lot of people do in real life, and I want to see that explored more. 

[Grieving Natashina]

From the wiki and this is for both genders:

 

http://dragonage.wik...rainai/Approval

 

You must have quite a history. With women, I mean.

 

If the Warden is male, this question may appear as "Have you always been...?" and the conversation will be about his history with men. (tested with male Dalish warden, max coercion)

 

I asked, didn't I? Approves (+2)

That many, I take it?

Perhaps you're right. I'd rather not know. Disapproves (-5) (end)

 

1) Should it?  Approves (+1)

 

2) You're joking.

 

3) You enjoy other men?

   

1)What reasons are those?

 

   2) I'm not all right with that, Zevran. Disapproves (-15) (Romance ends) (end)

 

   3)You're not with the Crows anymore.

 

   4) I think I understand.  Approves (+2)

 

       1) Yes, it's good we know now.  Disapproves (-13) (Romance ends)

     

      2) It doesn't bother me, Zevran.  Approves (+2)

     

      3)You sound like you've been through a lot.  Approves (+2)

 

       4)We all have a past, don't we?  Approves (+2)

 

 

1) I want you to leave.

 2) We need to end this.-20 - -46 Approval

[daveliam]

I think the issue is that the bisexual romance characters tend to favor opposite sex when it comes to comments on appearance, past lovers, etc.

 

This is generally speaking.  I think Isabela was skewed towards men though not as much as Zevran with women.  The other DA2 bisexuals don't have much in this area, but anything we do get seems to favor the opposite sex (Fenris hooking up with Isabela, for example).  Leliana might be the exception with the Marjolaine thing.

 

Totally agreed.  And Leliana is a great example of when there finally is a bisexual character who falls on the higher side of the Kinsey Scale, it's a woman and not a man.  It's fine when there are just a few examples, but now Bioware has a lot more examples of  bisexual characters and I, personally, would like to see it mixed up a bit.

 

And that goes for all of mass media, to be honest, not just Bioware.  Poor Bioware keeps getting the brunt of my frustrations because I know that they actually listen to us.....!

[Nocte ad Mortem]

That bugs me a tad, that he has to "check in" with the Warden to make sure she is ok with him being bisexual.

It seemed like the way Zevran tip-toed around his sexuality with both men and women implied the situation was way more sensitive than the lore suggests. It was a bit obvious, imo, that he was doing it for the real life audience, not the story.   

[JadePrince]

There was that awful line with Fenris though: "Is it because I'm a man?" Grrrrrrrrr!

 

I dunno, it sort of fit my awkward, not-confident Hawke to have the option to worry that Fenris was getting cold feet about having sex with another man. I didn't find it offensive, personally. I thought the sarcastic "It is a lot to take in" joke was a lot grosser and was a terrible, inappropriate thing to say in the moment.

[CuriousArtemis]

Which one?

 

After you sleep with him... the scene cuts to Fenris putting his armor back on, and Hawke sits up. You have the usual three options, and the diplomatic one is: "Is it because I'm a man?"

[Ryzaki]

I dunno, it sort of fit my awkward, not-confident Hawke to have the option to worry that Fenris was getting cold feet about having sex with another man. I didn't find it offensive, personally. I thought the sarcastic "It is a lot to take in" joke was a lot grosser and was a terrible, inappropriate thing to say in the moment.

 

That's snarky Hawke in a nutshell though....

 

[CuriousArtemis]

To be fair Fenris completely brushes that off.

 

He'd better! I mean, really, how is he supposed to answer that? "Yeah, it's because you're a man. I wasn't sure if I like the "D" until I got up close and personal with yours, and now I've made up my mind: I do not in fact like the "D." Thanks for trying though!"

[Hellion Rex]

After you sleep with him... the scene cuts to Fenris putting his armor back on, and Hawke sits up. You have the usual three options, and the diplomatic one is: "Is it because I'm a man?"

Oh damn, I forgot about that one.

[JadePrince]

That's snarky Hawke in a nutshell though....

 

 

True enough!

[CuriousArtemis]

It seemed like the way Zevran tip-toed around his sexuality with both men and women implied the situation was way more sensitive than the lore suggests. It was a bit obvious, imo, that he was doing it for the real life audience, not the story.   

 

Yeah, I first played the game in 2012, and even then it felt dated and off. I had played DA2 before that, and had assumed from that playing experience that sexuality was not a big deal in Thedas at all.

[CuriousArtemis]

I dunno, it sort of fit my awkward, not-confident Hawke to have the option to worry that Fenris was getting cold feet about having sex with another man. I didn't find it offensive, personally. I thought the sarcastic "It is a lot to take in" joke was a lot grosser and was a terrible, inappropriate thing to say in the moment.

 

Sigh. Yeah. I hate that line, too lol

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I think the issue is that the bisexual romance characters tend to favor opposite sex when it comes to comments on appearance, past lovers, etc.
 
This is generally speaking.  I think Isabela was skewed towards men though not as much as Zevran with women.  The other DA2 bisexuals don't have much in this area, but anything we do get seems to favor the opposite sex (Fenris hooking up with Isabela, for example).  Leliana might be the exception with the Marjolaine thing.

I think Leliana prefered women with some of the things she says & it still disappoints me that the fem warden/Leliana romance is pretty much ignored while the straight relationship with her is mentioned several times

[CuriousArtemis]

He also says they require "a certain open-mindedness" to join their ranks; that you have to show you're willing to sleep with targets of both genders before you can officially become one of the working Crows. It might just be me, but I interpreted it to mean he was forced to sleep with a man or men before he was ready to see how willing he was to "get into it," and it might have caused him some subconscious aversion that he would not have had otherwise.

 

YES! This is exactly how I read it, too!