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[Hellion Rex]

Honestly, I'd still rather have a "promiscuous rogue" gay male than the "gay angst" story that a lot of people suggest for set sexualities.

Lord have mercy, I could do without a "gay-angst" or struggling with sexuality story.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

It could also be how comfortable different writers are with presenting same-sex attraction.

Sheryl wrote both Leliana and Isabela, perhaps if she wrote a male companion (not necessarily a LI) who was queer, he'd be all "Hi, my name is Jack, and I just want to tell you all that dicks are awesome. They are like my third favorite thing in the world. Now... who wants to hear my tragic back-story and learn about my second favorite thing?"

So, what you're saying is, if Sheryl wrote the gay LI, we can expect some pretty Chee-sy pick up lines. 

[pallascedar]

Honestly, I'd still rather have a "promiscuous rogue" gay male than the "gay angst" story that a lot of people suggest for set sexualities. It could be mostly that "promiscuous rogue" is a personality I actually like, although I get why others are annoyed with it coming up so much. Though, it's honestly more a bisexual thing.. because there aren't really many gay characters, to begin with.   

 

Nobody is suggesting gay angst that I've seen. I, and a couple of other of posters, have suggested that it would be interesting to understand how being homosexual might affect a character. Because it does affect characters for many reasons.

 

First off, Thedas is still largely a world where marriages seem to be political contracts that are often about merging families and reproduction, especially among the nobility. I imagine that this is going to be even more powerful in communities where there is even more significant societal pressure to reproduce(dwarves, elves, magisters). And I don't know the demographics of Thedas, but I imagine a much smaller portion of the actual populace is gay; even if homosexuality is just a quirk, quirks are still thing that make people notice you. Even if homophobia isn't present in Thedas that doesn't mean that heteronormativity isn't (and it is).

 

And so I'm interested in seeing how character's lives may or may not have been affected by being homosexual. They don't have to be angsty about it, it doesn't have to be sad, but it that doesn't mean it wouldn't effect their lives in some way. A Dalish elf leaving his/her people because she/he had no interest in an arranged marriage (or something like that) isn't angsty. It's potentially one part of an interesting backstory that could be one of many reasons why this hypothetical character became disillusioned with the Dalish way of life.

 

I'm not interested in angst stories, and I don't think anybody is, but that doesn't mean that a character's homosexuality should have 0 effect on the direction of their life.

[jlb524]

And so I'm interested in seeing how character's lives may or may not have been affected by being homosexual. They don't have to be angsty about it, it doesn't have to be sad, but it that doesn't mean it wouldn't effect their lives in some way. A Dalish elf leaving his/her people because she/he had no interest in an arranged marriage (or something like that) isn't angsty. It's potentially one part of an interesting backstory that could be one of many reasons why this hypothetical character became disillusioned with the Dalish way of life.

 

This was a backstory I came up with for a potential Inquisitor.  Except the leaving part...I'm sure her whole clan will perish at the beginning of the game.  Then she'll just feel super guilty b/c she wanted to get away from them and now they're dead and....aaaaa

 

Anyway, I guess a counter to this point would be that they could do a similar story with a bisexual character.  Heck, even a straight one that just didn't want to marry the matched picked out for them, didn't want to get married at all, etc.  I guess you could say a homosexual character would have a different perspective?

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I'm not interested in angst stories, and I don't think anybody is, but that doesn't mean that a character's homosexuality should have 0 effect on the direction of their life.

One person's suggestion for how homosexuality could effect someone's life was basically, "A girl could develop a crush on her female friend and get ostracized for it, causing her to no longer trust people and go from being extroverted and successful to depressed and not caring." I'm not going to debate you on what exactly you want to see (because honestly there's not much left to say, we just fundamentally disagree on the subject) but there have definitely been people in the thread suggesting gay angst as a way homosexuality could be utilized in set sexualities. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

This was a backstory I came up with for a potential Inquisitor.  Except the leaving part...I'm sure her whole clan will perish at the beginning of the game.  Then she'll just feel super guilty b/c she wanted to get away from them and now they're dead and....aaaaa

 

Anyway, I guess a counter to this point would be that they could do a similar story with a bisexual character.  Heck, even a straight one that just didn't want to marry the matched picked out for them, didn't want to get married at all, etc.  I guess you could say a homosexual character would have a different perspective?

The wiki actually suggests Dalish can have same sex bonds similar to marriage. It's the city elves that consider arranged marriage a rite of passage. I'm not sure it's ever been said that the Dalish do.

[In Exile]

It could also be how comfortable different writers are with presenting same-sex attraction.

Sheryl wrote both Leliana and Isabela, perhaps if she wrote a male companion (not necessarily a LI) who was queer, he'd be all "Hi, my name is Jack, and I just want to tell you all that dicks are awesome. They are like my third favorite thing in the world. Now... who wants to hear my tragic back-story and learn about my second favorite thing?"

I can't talk about Jennifer's characters, but David's companions are almost always reluctant to share and seem to be holding back from the PC. I think "I am uncomfortable and unsure about these budding feelings" has been a hallmark of most of his romances.

 

That's a good point. Also, third favourite thing in the world? Just makes me want to know Jack's 1st and 2nd favourite things. 

 

Lord have mercy, I could do without a "gay-angst" or struggling with sexuality story.

 

Obviously, the story will focus on the character struggling with how awesome his sexuality is in comparison. "But seriously, dicks are so much better, because..." 

 

Edit: Kind of like how Dan Savage occasionally brings up the awesomeness of dicks as a by-the-way. 

[oceanicsurvivor]

One person's suggestion for how homosexuality could effect someone's life was basically, "A girl could develop a crush on her female friend and get ostracized for it, causing her to no longer trust people and go from being extroverted and successful to depressed and not caring." I'm not going to debate you on what exactly you want to see (because honestly there's not much left to say, we just fundamentally disagree on the subject) but there have definitely been people in the thread suggesting gay angst as a way homosexuality could be utilized in set sexualities. 

 

I love relationship angst in media . But its pretty rare that I'd want gay specific angst in media. Maybe a little gay angst say,...every leap year? Isabela leaving because of the relic is angst I can deal with, Anders having a demon in his head and trying to have a normal life with the person he loves is decent angst etc. But that had nothing to do with the gender of their lover and that is much preferred to me.

 

Also, imagine subsequent playthroughs, "yes, Dorian, I know being gay is very difficult,...we've been through this...*sigh*"   No thank you.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I love relationship angst in media . But its pretty rare that I'd want gay specific angst in media. Maybe a little gay angst say,...every leap year? Isabela leaving because of the relic is angst I can deal with, Anders having a demon in his head and trying to have a normal life with the person he loves is decent angst etc. But that had nothing to do with the gender of their lover and that is much preferred to me.

 

Also, imagine subsequent playthroughs, "yes, Dorian, I know being gay is very difficult,...we've been through this...*sigh*"   No thank you.

Yeah, I'm totally cool with relationships that have issues, generally. It's just having every case of gay characters treated like an after school special that gets seriously depressing. I don't want a major part of my same sex relationship to be about it being a same sex relationship. I don't want a major part of gay characters to be that they're gay. I just want a romance story with an interesting character that happens to be gay, like straight people always have. Straight people can go into the game knowing their choices aren't going to be largely based around the character being straight and how that effects their lives. I want that, too. It's been great having it in DA. I really, really hope gender gating wont change that. It's one of my main fears concerning the system.

[In Exile]

This is something I wonder about a lot, actually--how much control David has over the writing.

 

A lot, but I think it depends on what you mean by "the writing". I think that the general direction is a collaborative process where DG is one voice among many, whereas how the writing comes up is a lot more part of his discretion. 

That's usually how high-level decision making works between multiple leads, based on my own (unrelated) experience. 

[Deviija]

Also, imagine subsequent playthroughs, "yes, Dorian, I know being gay is very difficult,...we've been through this...*sigh*"   No thank you.

 

More like, "Yeah, yeah, I know enough already, I actually LIVE it!"  

 

No thanks.  I pass on that.  Exhausting.  

[Deviija]

Obviously, the story will focus on the character struggling with how awesome his sexuality is in comparison. "But seriously, dicks are so much better, because..." 

 

This segue would then lead to a musical song and dance cinematic, similar to Mordin's take on the Major-Genera's Song in ME2.  Only with dicks.  

[pallascedar]

The wiki actually suggests Dalish can have same sex bonds similar to marriage. It's the city elves that consider arranged marriage a rite of passage. I'm not sure it's ever been said that the Dalish do.

 

I just kinda assume about the Dalish. I don't see how a wandering society could really continue to exist without some sort of arranged marriage. You have to exchange people between clans in some sort of way otherwise everyone just becomes related.

 

I also imagine that any society whose entire culture is based around the continuation of their race and the passing on of their culture would likely be averse to people forming permanent bonds that don't result in the production of children. Of course, given the nature of the Dalish this sort of thing would vary from clan to clan, and I could be entirely wrong. It's just assumptions that I've made that based on my understanding of Dalish culture.

[In Exile]

This segue would then lead to a musical song and dance cinematic, similar to Mordin's take on the Major-Genera's Song in ME2.  Only with dicks.  

 

Instead of a ring, your gift will just be a dick-shaped whistle. "Blow me" inscription will be optional. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I just kinda assume about the Dalish. I don't see how a wandering society could really continue to exist without some sort of arranged marriage. You have to exchange people between clans in some sort of way otherwise everyone just becomes related.

 

I also imagine that any society whose entire culture is based around the continuation of their race and the passing on of their culture would likely be averse to people forming permanent bonds that don't result in the production of children. Of course, given the nature of the Dalish this sort of thing would vary from clan to clan, and I could be entirely wrong. It's just assumptions that I've made that based on my understanding of Dalish culture.

The Dalish clans are said to have very little contact with each other, so I doubt they could arrange something like that very effectively. This is what the wiki says;

 

http://dragonage.wik...ty_and_marriage

The Dalish 

Not much is known about the Dalish, and the same holds true for their views on sexuality and marriage. The Dalish appear to be more in line with Fereldan thinking rather than other cultures like Orlais. This means that they tend to take relationships slowly and seriously with each other. Once they have come of age, they may choose a mate of the opposite sex with whom to "bond"^[2] for life. It is unknown how they view same-sex relationships, but there seems to be no stigma against it other than for the fact it will not produce a child for the dying race. As with most cultures, the Dalish do not approve of interspecies romance, and it is forbidden by them. To even dally with a human could earn exile from one's clan. This likely stems from both past hatreds and the fact that "pure elves" or Dalish are becoming increasingly rare.

[Ryzaki]

So I guess a s/s elf couple could bond if they agreed to have children.

 

Meanwhile falling in love with a human is worse because if they do have any children with said human...they'd be human.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Dalish clans are said to have very little contact with each other, so I doubt they could arrange something like that very effectively. This is what the wiki says;

 

http://dragonage.wik...ty_and_marriage

The Dalish 

Not much is known about the Dalish, and the same holds true for their views on sexuality and marriage. The Dalish appear to be more in line with Fereldan thinking rather than other cultures like Orlais. This means that they tend to take relationships slowly and seriously with each other. Once they have come of age, they may choose a mate of the opposite sex with whom to "bond"^[2] for life. It is unknown how they view same-sex relationships, but there seems to be no stigma against it other than for the fact it will not produce a child for the dying race. As with most cultures, the Dalish do not approve of interspecies romance, and it is forbidden by them. To even dally with a human could earn exile from one's clan. This likely stems from both past hatreds and the fact that "pure elves" or Dalish are becoming increasingly rare.

This once again makes me wonder why the romances are gander gated and not race gated. I mean, the Dalish don't really care if you sleep with a male or female but "like most cultures" they don't approve of interracial unions and the Dalish elf involved can be kicked out of the clan. 

[In Exile]

So I guess a s/s elf couple could bond if they agreed to have children.

 

Meanwhile falling in love with a human is worse because if they do have any children with said human...they'd be human.

 

Right. Racism, not homophobia, is the governing vice of the Dalish.

 

 

This once again makes me wonder why the romances are gander gated and not race gated. I mean, the Dalish don't really care if you sleep with a male or female but "like most cultures" they don't approve of interracial unions and the Dalish elf involved can be kicked out of the clan. 

 

To be fair, gender gating would make some sense with someone who's devoutly Dalish, with the idea that sex must = reproduction. It certainly borrows from the squicky elements of IRL religion, with the added bonus that because elf+human = (phenotypically) human, the racist undertones to sex = reproduction are justified.

[pallascedar]

The Dalish clans are said to have very little contact with each other, so I doubt they could arrange something like that very effectively. This is what the wiki says;

 

http://dragonage.wik...ty_and_marriage

The Dalish 

Not much is known about the Dalish, and the same holds true for their views on sexuality and marriage. The Dalish appear to be more in line with Fereldan thinking rather than other cultures like Orlais. This means that they tend to take relationships slowly and seriously with each other. Once they have come of age, they may choose a mate of the opposite sex with whom to "bond"^[2] for life. It is unknown how they view same-sex relationships, but there seems to be no stigma against it other than for the fact it will not produce a child for the dying race. As with most cultures, the Dalish do not approve of interspecies romance, and it is forbidden by them. To even dally with a human could earn exile from one's clan. This likely stems from both past hatreds and the fact that "pure elves" or Dalish are becoming increasingly rare.

I'm not saying that this is wrong, but there is only one source here. It's possible that marriages aren't arranged but just highly encouraged among elves of separate clans (they do meet every 10 or so years, right?).

 

Again, I'm operating under the assumption that any tiny culture needs to actively avoid inbreeding in order to survive. Maybe inbreeding magically isn't a problem in Thedas...or maybe it's just a good explanation for why some of the clans we've seen have been so full of crazy people.

 

I know that devs have said the wiki is a good source, but that doesn't mean it's right on everything.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

This once again makes me wonder why the romances are gander gated and not race gated. I mean, the Dalish don't really care if you sleep with a male or female but "like most cultures" they don't approve of interracial unions and the Dalish elf involved can be kicked out of the clan. 

That's really what it comes down to. In basically every culture, race mixing is a way bigger deal than gender. 

[Mockingword]

Moving away from gender gating for a minute;

 

I wonder, does everyone think there will be main romances again? What is everyone's opinion of them? Would you rather we didn't have them? Back to gender gating, are you worried about getting locked out of them?

I don't really care if someone's romance is better integrated into the "main" plot. The "main" romance is who ever I decide to have my character end up with because, for the duration of that game, it's the only romance.

 

I don't really require a romance to be heavily tied to the main plot. Most romance sideplots in fiction are already tangential at best.

[oceanicsurvivor]

More like, "Yeah, yeah, I know enough already, I actually LIVE it!"  

 

No thanks.  I pass on that.  Exhausting.  

Yes . haha at a certain point it would just get demoralizing. Agreed.

 

And if there are two romances more intricately tied to the plot, Cass and Solas seem like the obvious choices imo.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

To be fair, gender gating would make some sense with someone who's devoutly Dalish, with the idea that sex must = reproduction. It certainly borrows from the squicky elements of IRL religion, with the added bonus that because elf+human = (phenotypically) human, the racist undertones to sex = reproduction are justified.

 

True. For example I'm currently playing a Dwarf in Origins so I can see why the Dwarves frown on homosexuality since it isn't practical. They need as many people as possible to keep their numbers up against the constant Darkspawn threat.