12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Nuggins]

To be fair, gender gating would make some sense with someone who's devoutly Dalish, with the idea that sex must = reproduction. It certainly borrows from the squicky elements of IRL religion, with the added bonus that because elf+human = (phenotypically) human, the racist undertones to sex = reproduction are justified.

 

I don't know if we see any evidence of this, to be honest.  I think the Dalish are less concerned about their numbers (if they were, why not make more of an effort to bring city elves back into the fold?) than they are about the preservation of their culture--their knowledge, stories, religion, magic, etc.  If a Dalish boy were like "mom, dad, I want to marry that strapping young hunter boy we met at the last clan meet," they'd probably be like "that's great son, just make sure you recite the correct prayer when you do it."

[SurelyForth]

BOW BEFORE THE ALMIGHTY STACHE!!!!!

 

 

http://yamisnuffles.tumblr.com/

 

I will be so, so bummed if one of my Inquisitors can't smooch that 'stache. 

[Chari]

I don't know if we see any evidence of this, to be honest. I think the Dalish are less concerned about their numbers (if they were, why not make more of an effort to bring city elves back into the fold?) than they are about the preservation of their culture--their knowledge, stories, religion, magic, etc. If a Dalish boy were like "mom, dad, I want to marry that strapping young hunter boy we met at the last clan meet," they'd probably be like "that's great son, just make sure you recite the correct prayer when you do it."

They actually accept city elves into clans as long as they're not useless. But city elves aren't really keen on trying to join their wild relatives

[Allan Schumacher]

Okay. David said that the companion sexualities were purposely vague, he also said that if someone wants to label their sexuality then that's up to the player.

Where does he say he doesn't consider them bisexual?

 

I'm going to have to agree with Maria.  I read both of the comments as being deliberately vague.  Almost like David refuses to share how he feels the characters are since he is kind of against the idea of mandating that they require explicit declaration because it would satisfy some group of people and provide ammunition that they are correct and others are wrong.

 

(I do believe that there will be people that take my position on this and will state that it's obviously the truth and will use it to win arguments on the internet because winning arguments on the internet is important for some people).

[Lady Nuggins]

They actually accept city elves into clans as long as they're not useless. But city elves aren't really keen on trying to join their wild relatives

 

They accept them, but I didn't get the impression that they're actively trying to recruit them.  And Merrill's reaction to the "half-breed" that you send to the Dalish clan makes me think that they maybe turn their noses up at elves who have been living like humans.

[jlb524]

Flirt with Tamlen as f!Mahariel and later talk to her step-mother

 

I'll pass on that but thanks for the clarification.

[aTigerslunch]

I thought city elves wouldnt have issues as their Dalish for the save the species effect? They definitively would help the wild elves alot if they all left the city.

They do dislike city elves, but some did come from cities.

[Chari]

They accept them, but I didn't get the impression that they're actively trying to recruit them. And Merrill's reaction to the "half-breed" that you send to the Dalish clan makes me think that they maybe turn their noses up at elves who have been living like humans.

They do. City elves in their eyes have lost everything to Shem's. Dalish can help those who want to learn, but they are no t going to waste resources. Plus chantry and humans wouldn't allow the Dalish to freely wander in their cities

[Mister Sunshine]

It could also be how comfortable different writers are with presenting same-sex attraction.

Sheryl wrote both Leliana and Isabela, perhaps if she wrote a male companion (not necessarily a LI) who was queer, he'd be all "Hi, my name is Jack, and I just want to tell you all that dicks are awesome. They are like my third favorite thing in the world. Now... who wants to hear my tragic back-story and learn about my second favorite thing?"

I can't talk about Jennifer's characters, but David's companions are almost always reluctant to share and seem to be holding back from the PC. I think "I am uncomfortable and unsure about these budding feelings" has been a hallmark of most of his romances.

Now I need fan art of m!Inq with the other male characters at dick level singing, "These are a few of my favorite things!"

[Grieving Natashina]

 

In the comment I was referring to, which wasn't one of the two Nat pulled up and I couldn't possibly dig it out at this time.

 

I have no reason to lie or spin the man's words. I know what I saw.

Same here, and I don't appreciate being told as such.  

 

Not everything from the BSN Legacy forums has been archived, and the only google searches for the BSN are from archived threads.  So I'm still looking, because I remember that too.  I also don't have any reason to lie about WoG.

 

 

Almost like David refuses to share how he feels the characters are since he is kind of against the idea of mandating that they require explicit declaration because it would satisfy some group of people and provide ammunition that they are correct and others are wrong.

 

One question: How?  Seriously, how would that be ammo?  I'm not trying to be a pain here, I really don't understand.

 

 

 

Now I need fan art of m!Inq with the other male characters at dick level singing, "These are a few of my favorite things!"

Ew, please no.  

  

 

[SurelyForth]

 

One question: How?  Seriously, how would that be ammo?  I'm not trying to be a pain here, I really don't understand.

 

 

 

I know that, on tumblr, David has been reticent when it comes to clarifying certain (relatively) obscure lore points because he feels like people tend to use his Word of God to dictate what others write/think or how they play. For example, the act of homosexuality or bisexuality being erased is something that does not sit well with a lot of people. However, it's possible for a person to play DA2 and never know that Fenris or Anders can be romanced by men, so if they come on the board and intimate that those characters are straight, because they give no indication otherwise, people who might be inclined to take them to task for erasing, say, Anders' sexual identity, won't be able to use David's words as a trump card (or bludgeon, considering how these things sometimes go) because David has left things relatively vague. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I know that, on tumblr, David has been reticent when it comes to clarifying certain (relatively) obscure lore points because he feels like people tend to use his Word of God to dictate what others write/think or how they play. For example, the act of homosexuality or bisexuality being erased is something that does not sit well with a lot of people. However, it's possible for a person to play DA2 and never know that Fenris or Anders can be romanced by men, so if they come on the board and intimate that those characters are straight, because they give no indication otherwise, people who might be inclined to take them to task for erasing, say, Anders' sexual identity, won't be able to use David's words as a trump card (or bludgeon, considering how these things sometimes go) because David has left things relatively vague. 

So, to make sure I understand, he doesn't want to say (for example) Anders was bisexual because DG and Hepler made the decision that he wouldn't tell a lady Hawke about Karl, therefore "erasing" Anders' sexuality.   By them making the decision to have Anders not to tell a lady Hawke, it somehow "erased" his sexuality in the eyes of the players and now it's a bad idea to confirm what we already know about him.  Am I close?  

 

Also, doesn't want to say that Fenris was bisexual because....?  Okay, I have no clue why they won't just say that the LIs were bisexual.

 

I'm really confused by this.

[SurelyForth]

So, to make sure I understand, he doesn't want to say (in this example) Anders was bisexual because DG and Hepler made the decision that he wouldn't tell a lady Hawke about Karl, therefore "erasing" Anders' sexuality.   By them making the decision to have Anders not to tell a lady Hawke, it somehow "erased" his sexuality in the eyes of the players and now it's a bad idea to confirm what we already know about him.  Am I close?  

 

I'm really confused by this.

 

I think Anders was a bad example, because I'm almost positive he has said that Anders was canonically bisexual (or that he has a relationship with Anders whether he tells Hawke or not). However, the gist is this: David has talked around the issue and answered questions about why Anders doesn't tell F!Hawke about Karl, and even questions about whether Karl is a canonical ex, regardless of which Hawke exists in a given universe. However, he's avoided explicitly saying "players should always consider Anders to be bisexual/pansexual" because they, the writers, made the decision not to make it explicit in the game and he doesn't want to give people the ammo to come after those who don't know better. 

 

Does that make sense? Maybe?

[TeenBanshee]

Something I'd love to see is a spirit romance - It would really be interesting to see it play out if done extremely well.

[aTigerslunch]

@Natashina Did you get enough sleep? Didnt seem it was that long ago.

[Chari]

You know how to avoid such confusion?
Don't make it vague! If they're bi, they're bi, if they're straight they're straight, if they're gay they're gay, if they can't yet decide they can't yet decide
Seems this time we'll avoid such mess of don't-show-dont-tell-ehh-no-comments. And thanks God for that

[Chari]

Something I'd love to see is a spirit romance - It would really be interesting to see it play out if done extremely well.

Yep. I wish my warden could bond with Justice. Sexless, purely spiritual love

[Grieving Natashina]

@Natashina Did you get enough sleep? Didnt seem it was that long ago.

I got as much sleep as I could, but thanks for asking.  I'm a chronic insomniac, so after 3 hours I was up.  

 

 

You know how to avoid such confusion?
Don't make it vague! If they're bi, they're bi, if they're straight they're straight, if they're gay they're gay, if they can't yet decide they can't yet decide
Seems this time we'll avoid such mess of don't-show-dont-tell-ehh-no-comments. And thanks God for that

That's (to me) one of the few upsides to having set sexuality.  There won't be any of the ambigious mess.  If, say, "Dorian" turns out to be bisexual, then it'll be out in the open, regardless of the gender of the PC. 

 

I think Anders was a bad example, because I'm almost positive he has said that Anders was canonically bisexual (or that he has a relationship with Anders whether he tells Hawke or not). However, the gist is this: David has talked around the issue and answered questions about why Anders doesn't tell F!Hawke about Karl, and even questions about whether Karl is a canonical ex, regardless of which Hawke exists in a given universe. However, he's avoided explicitly saying "players should always consider Anders to be bisexual/pansexual" because they, the writers, made the decision not to make it explicit in the game and he doesn't want to give people the ammo to come after those who don't know better. 

 

Does that make sense? Maybe?

I figure if it would be any kind of ammo, it would be against the people that have said, "Well, I didn't hear about Karl, therefore Anders is straight."  I know why DG and Hepler decided not to have Anders tell a female Hawke about his past.  I thought it was a pretty stupid reason myself (Anders wouldn't be comfortable telling a female Hawke?  Why?) but it was their choice. 

 

Yeah, it does make sense.  It's their world we're playing in after all, and I respect that if that's their decision.  If I didn't respect the DA Team, well...let's just say I wouldn't be here and pre-ordering the Uber Edition tomorrow.      

 

Thanks for giving this a shot, it does give some perspective.  Since this is really old news, I'm happy to move on from the subject.

 

 

[TeenBanshee]

Yep. I wish my warden could bond with Justice. Sexless, purely spiritual love

 

I agree! It would be something different, and really amazing to have. Ugh now i'm getting all these great ideas in my mind.

[Deviija]

That's (to me) one of the few upsides to having set sexuality.  There won't be any of the ambigious mess.  If, say, "Dorian" turns out to be bisexual, then it'll be out in the open, regardless of the gender of the PC. 

 

If Dorian actually relates that he is bi himself...  We could still run into the same vagueness and forum issues and "ambiguity"/"playersexual"/"open to interpretation" people have been discussing the last handful of pages if he only mentions sleeping with women and comments on finding women attractive.  Or if he doesn't comment on anyone and give any indicators at all, and the only way to identify him as bisexual is by elimination once identifying the straight and gay/lesbian LIs.  Nothing stops someone from doing the same, "Well, in this playthrough with my Femquisitor, he's completely straight, and he never indicates he likes men anyway." etc.  

 

Now, if the writers specifically state Dorian is bi (in this hypothetical example) in an official capacity, regardless of content in-game, then that can help avert some issues.  Just some random thoughts on that front, as set sexuality doesn't necessarily mean it will be less ambiguous (for bisexual LIs).

[Grieving Natashina]

If Dorian actually relates that he is bi himself...  We could still run into the same vagueness and forum issues and "ambiguity"/"playersexual"/"open to interpretation" people have been discussing the last handful of pages if he only mentions sleeping with women and comments on finding women attractive.  Or if he doesn't comment on anyone and give any indicators at all, and the only way to identify him as bisexual is by elimination once identifying the straight and gay/lesbian LIs.  Nothing stops someone from doing the same, "Well, in this playthrough with my Femquisitor, he's completely straight, and he never indicates he likes men anyway." etc.  

 

Now, if the writers specifically state Dorian is bi (in this hypothetical example) in an official capacity, regardless of content in-game, then that can help avert some issues.  Just some random thoughts on that front, as set sexuality doesn't necessarily mean it will be less ambiguous (for bisexual LIs).

I can see that, if they take the questionable tactic of hiding it from the female player.  If they are more open about it, like Zevran is to the Warden, I noticed it tends to cause a lot less debate on this front.

 

The only way to make sure it isn't ambiguous is if the writers have found a tasteful way to let the player know that a bisexual companion has been with both men and women romantically in their past to the Inquisitor regardless of gender.  Now, folks from there I'm sure are going to debate "how bi s/he is," even if /she doesn't state s/he prefers one gender over the other.  For too many people (not many here in the forums, thankfully), being bi=one step away from being gay or straight (or just flat out greedy,) so I'm sure that's going to come up.

 

However, if the writers are able to make the bisexuality of a companion clear, then I hope they do so.  

[Allan Schumacher]

One question: How?  Seriously, how would that be ammo?  I'm not trying to be a pain here, I really don't understand.

 

Whether it be here, or elsewhere on the forum, but "Word of Dev" to trump arguments isn't exactly something that is uncommon, in my experience.  People like being right and Gaider being clear on a position like this would, in my opinion, mean that some (not all) people that want to be vindicated on this particular perspective would be able to tell other people that their understanding is wrong.

 

I mean, there are already arguments (and not the friendly disagreement kinds...) that happen based on this sort of stuff.  It spawns forth all sorts of fun stuff like "playersexual is just pandering to players and weakens characters by having their sexual interests bow to the whims of the player" (I'm sure some of these people would love to see an official declaration from a writer so that they can feel right and let others that feel otherwise know they're wrong).  How many people that have gotten on our case for the erasure of bisexuality would just love to have an official declaration that their ire is justified?

 

I've seen people state that by entertaining the idea of "playersexuality" at all that we areerasing bisexuality by allowing people that don't feel comfortable with it to tell themselves that the characters are not bisexual.

[TeenBanshee]

I really enjoyed the way they handled Zevran with the whole bisexuality situation. To me it was better than DA2's.

[Grieving Natashina]

Whether it be here, or elsewhere on the forum, but "Word of Dev" to trump arguments isn't exactly something that is uncommon, in my experience.  People like being right and Gaider being clear on a position like this would, in my opinion, mean that some (not all) people that want to be vindicated on this particular perspective would be able to tell other people that their understanding is wrong.

 

I mean, there are already arguments (and not the friendly disagreement kinds...) that happen based on this sort of stuff.  It spawns forth all sorts of fun stuff like "playersexual is just pandering to players and weakens characters by having their sexual interests bow to the whims of the player" (I'm sure some of these people would love to see an official declaration from a writer so that they can feel right and let others that feel otherwise know they're wrong).  How many people that have gotten on our case for the erasure of bisexuality would just love to have an official declaration that their ire is justified?

 

I've seen people state that by entertaining the idea of "playersexuality" at all that we are erasing bisexuality by allowing people that don't feel comfortable with it to tell themselves that the characters are not bisexual.

 

That's pretty much what I got from Surely's post, but thanks for clarifying this further.  I have seen folks making those very same comments and I can see why David (or the rest of the DA team) doesn't want to add fuel to that fire.  

 

 

I really enjoyed the way they handled Zevran with the whole bisexuality situation. To me it was better than DA2's.

Seconded!  The character needed some work (but hey, it was...BioWare's second or third non-straight male LI,) but I liked that he was secure enough in his sexuality to tell both a male and a female Warden.  

[TeenBanshee]

Whether it be here, or elsewhere on the forum, but "Word of Dev" to trump arguments isn't exactly something that is uncommon, in my experience.  People like being right and Gaider being clear on a position like this would, in my opinion, mean that some (not all) people that want to be vindicated on this particular perspective would be able to tell other people that their understanding is wrong.

 

I mean, there are already arguments (and not the friendly disagreement kinds...) that happen based on this sort of stuff.  It spawns forth all sorts of fun stuff like "playersexual is just pandering to players and weakens characters by having their sexual interests bow to the whims of the player" (I'm sure some of these people would love to see an official declaration from a writer so that they can feel right and let others that feel otherwise know they're wrong).  How many people that have gotten on our case for the erasure of bisexuality would just love to have an official declaration that their ire is justified?

 

I've seen people state that by entertaining the idea of "playersexuality" at all that we areerasing bisexuality by allowing people that don't feel comfortable with it to tell themselves that the characters are not bisexual.

 

Hi Darth Allan. Love seeing you clarify things.