12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Krytie]

Really, the only problem for me is that he didn't discuss his relationship with Karl with a LadyHawke. I don't really see this as an issue with Anders not being fleshed out, I see it as a single poor writing decision.

 

Though, just to point it out: Anders does say something along the lines that it's rare to find a man who discusses such things so openly. Given that, it might not even make much sense for Anders to discuss it with a Lady Hawke. He does interact with Lady Hawke and Dude Hawke differently even outside of that one dialogue. It's not entirely strange that he'd feel more comfortable talking to Dude Hawke about his relationship with Karl once he's observed a signal that it's a conversation that'd be welcomed. He doesn't bring it up to a Male Hawke unless you've triggered the romance to start, iirc.

[In Exile]

I don't discuss my sexuality with people I don't think I'm going to ****.

 

It's not his sexuality. It's his past relationship. I have a problem with Bioware hiding that content. 

[Ryzaki]

It's not his sexuality. It's his past relationship. I have a problem with Bioware hiding that content. 

 

Yeah I just headcanon it as Anders being secretive he really should've told both genders of Hawke about Karl.

[aTigerslunch]

I've two rl friends related to this topic: One is a furry.  I never knew he was a furry till several years later. He never said anything about it. He didnt come across as being a furry.  I finally found out hes a furry one day, several years later.  He didnt want to discuss it, he didnt want to talk about it.  *shrugs*  I see Anders in same respect, he didnt talk about it till finally comes out with it.

 

I have another friend (mentioned him before, not sure if same discussion or was another). He never said he was bi, he never talks about it, he never shared except with the lady he know is going to marry. She is the one that mentioned it to me. I might not of been clear in other time that I posted that.  But I dont talk to him about it, cause its none of my concern.  But I did know him for awhile as well.... oh wow... surprise...... my thoughts... whatever, its his life. I wont judge him on it.  Either of them actually, and this one was known to be furry, as he claimed it outright. 

 

I dont find Anders being bi, and not shared it earlier as a surprise to me.  Not worried about it, as it doesnt bother me, cause he might not wanted to share it.  Both these guys I mentioned hit on women, and dont seem to ever hit on men from what I seen.  Same thing I see of Anders honestly.  I have 2 living Anders in my area, glad they are not idiotic as Anders, or whiney as him.

[Chari]

Anders was such a womanizer that at first I thought he was Zevran's relative, lol. He hit on PC, Velanna, that girl and mentioned having a girlfriend. Probably would hit on Shale if given a chance. Geez, the only main female character he didn't hit on was Sigrun. And the Mother, yeah
But since it was retconned later I can only assume girls in Awakening were much prettier than boys XD
What do you know, Warden, Hawke is prettier than you! It's all about that scar and messy beard, you see. You clean beard and moustache are just laughable in comparison

[Ryzaki]

Anders was such a womanizer that at first I thought he was Zevran's relative, lol. He hit on PC, Velanna, that girl and mentioned having a girlfriend. Probably would hit on Shale if given a chance. Geez, the only main female character he didn't hit on was Sigrun. And the Mother, yeah
But since it was retconned later I can only assume girls in Awakening were much prettier than boys XD
What do you know, Warden, Hawke is prettier than you! It's all about that scar and messy beard, you see. You clean beard and moustache are just laughable in comparison

 

I think male Warden just has something that tells every male but Zevran to abort the mission (or that dude in the HN origin).

 

Poor warden.

[Allan Schumacher]

Nope the change I see is in his dialogs with the different sexes, he's starting to waffle more than a politician on election day, and that is bad writing. (Unless Mr Gaider was trying to add something else to Anders' personality and did not quite pull it off) Anders is an inconsistent character and that bothers me.

 

Just curious, is it possible that you're making assumptions about how a bisexual person should behave, and that those assumptions may not actually be universally correct for all bisexuals (or even many)?

[Ianamus]

The real problem with Anders not mentioning his relationship with Karl is that it is so relevant to that quest. It's not some relationship that happened years ago and has nothing to do with anything, he is trying to convince someone to sneak into a Chantry with him and escape with another apostate, then kills the person out of mercy. 

 

Not only does the romantic link increase the emotional stakes of the quest and cause Anders actions to make a lot more sense, but it would also be good leverage with regards to convincing Hawke to do something so illegal in order to help him. 

 

And to be honest if someone helped me try to free my lover and I ended up killing them out of mercy It is incredibly unlikely that I never would have told or indicated to the person helping me that we were in a relationship. It's so incredibly contrived. 

[daveliam]

But since it was retconned later

 

It wasn't retconned.  The exact quote from Gaider is that, "He did not suddenly become bisexual in DA2 compared to Awakening. I wrote him in Awakening."  His sexuality wasn't relevant to the Awakenings plot so it wasn't explore beyond surface level.  That =/= retcon. 

[Giggles_Manically]

The real problem with Anders not mentioning his relationship with Karl is that it is so relevant to that quest. It's not some relationship that happened years ago and has nothing to do with anything, he is trying to convince someone to sneak into a Chantry with him and escape with another apostate, then kills the person out of mercy. 

 

Not only does the romantic link increase the emotional stakes of the quest and cause Anders actions to make a lot more sense, but it would also be good leverage with regards to convincing Hawke to do something so illegal in order to help him. 

 

And to be honest if someone helped me try to free my lover and I ended up killing them out of mercy It is incredibly unlikely that I never would have told or indicated to the person helping me that we were in a relationship. It's so incredibly contrived. 

This.

 

It just felt weak that he did not mention it at all to FemHawke.

[Ryzaki]

The real problem with Anders not mentioning his relationship with Karl is that it is so relevant to that quest. It's not some relationship that happened years ago and has nothing to do with anything, he is trying to convince someone to sneak into a Chantry with him and escape with another apostate, then kills the person out of mercy. 

 

Not only does the romantic link increase the emotional stakes of the quest and cause Anders actions to make a lot more sense, but it would also be good leverage with regards to convincing Hawke to do something so illegal in order to help him. 

 

And to be honest if someone helped me try to free my lover and I ended up killing them out of mercy It is incredibly unlikely that I never would have told or indicated to the person helping me that we were in a relationship. It's so incredibly contrived. 

 

Agreed.

 

I always got the impression it was a bad attempt to appease the people who complain about a m/f option being openly available for m/m as well. *shrugs*

 

Fenris would lose his mysteriousness indeed.

[Mockingword]

It's not his sexuality. It's his past relationship. I have a problem with Bioware hiding that content. 

I also don't go blabbing my past relationships to all and sundry.

[Farewell]

 I think it was more a problem of resources/time/writing/inclusion/tecnical issue than really not making Alistair "sensible". After all, there should have been specific dialogue for every origin/race.

Because as you say too, Alistair is quite caring over the nightmares, or even during the Sacred Ashes quest (when the PC is confronted with the illusione of the persons from their past.) all moments that happen no matter the relationship between Alistair and the Warden. In fact, I fould Alistair feels better if is just friend with the Warden, since he feel very caring.

That's make him a little out of character when in a relationship. from caring friend to insensible lover? well...it feels quite strange...

 

I, as canon, I'd like to think all that kind of dialogue was "behind the scene" (even if the "what? you where married?" of the CE was quite bad handled). But I can understand for some people may came out as if Alistair is ignoring the PC emotional state. his romance is a little...incomplete, in that department.

 

I hope some little personal dialogue like in DA2 for DAI. those seem little, but help to feel a relationship more real (be it romantic or no)

I agree that probably in many situations where Alistair could have shown more support towards your PC didn't exists because there weren't enough resources etc. I haven't yet played the the CE origin so I can't say anything about that but the line "What? You were married " sounds like Alistair have a huge problem with the marriadge. Maybe because he is so inexperienced in romantic relationships and don't know what to say in that situation so he just say something like that.

 

I haven't had any problems with something lacking in a relationship. Those things don't bother me but sometimes there are scenes with your PC and her LI which don't feel right like when FemShep meets Thane in ME3 for the first time. I would have expected that she would have act more sympathetic towards Thane but it never happened.

[Ajna]

I also don't go blabbing my past relationships to all and sundry.

I have to say here, that many people don't.  When I was younger, much younger, I may have felt the need to know every single thing about a partner's past relationships, now I realise it really doesn't matter, it's none of my business.  Since people exist that don't divulge every single detail about past relationships, I don't see how it should be different for a character in a game.  I always romanced Anders, and I never once felt cheated because he didn't tell me he had a relationship with another man, it's none of Hawkes business, he told MHawke because it was relevent to their relationship and he wanted to.  That's how I see it anyway...

[Farewell]

When a character in a game can be romanced by both female and male PC I just think that character is a bisexual. I just think it's so strong evidence about that thing.

[Jagged Orchid]

When a character in a game can be romanced by both female and male PC I just think that character is a bisexual. I just think it's so strong evidence about that thing.

 

 

I never saw it that way. Unless, that character makes it known that they prefer both men and women, I don't even try to guess at their orientation. If I'm looking at the game from my characters perspective, which in my case is always female, her male counterpart does not exist.  I guess the argument that if they physically can romance both a male and female pc automatically means there bi, just never held any weight in my opinion. It all comes back to only one PC existing in that world state. 

[zestalyn]

Wait...sorry to interject, but Anders and Karl used to be an item? Where does it say that? (tried looking in this thread but this debate has been going on for awhile) Just curious, because I had absolutely no idea and it doesn't say on wiki. 

[daveliam]

I never saw it that way. Unless, that character makes it known that they prefer both men and women, I don't even try to guess at their orientation. If I'm looking at the game from my characters perspective, which in my case is always female, her male counterpart does not exist.  I guess the argument that if they physically can romance both a male and female pc automatically means there bi, just never held any weight in my opinion. It all comes back to only one PC existing in that world state. 

 

I could just as easily say that they are not playersexual unless they make it known that they are straight in one playthrough and gay in another.  Just because you don't see the content because of the choices you make doesn't mean that it didn't happen.  It would be like saying, "Well Alistair isn't a virgin in my playthrough because I didn't engage in that conversation with him."

It's ambiguous, so there's no right answer here, but it's safe to say that the "a bi person is only canonically bi if they declare it explicitly" has been confirmed by numerous devs as a fallacy in regards to these games.

 

Wait...sorry to interject, but Anders and Karl used to be an item? Where does it say that? (tried looking in this thread but this debate has been going on for awhile) Just curious, because I had absolutely no idea and it doesn't say on wiki. 

 

Yes.  If a male Hawke flirts with Anders, he will reveal that Karl was his ex (in fact, his first).  Gaider has confirmed that this relationship happened regardless of PC gender.

[Farewell]

I never saw it that way. Unless, that character makes it known that they prefer both men and women, I don't even try to guess at their orientation. If I'm looking at the game from my characters perspective, which in my case is always female, her male counterpart does not exist.  I guess the argument that if they physically can romance both a male and female pc automatically means there bi, just never held any weight in my opinion. It all comes back to only one PC existing in that world state. 

 

 I also always play as a female PC but if I know that a character can be romanced by both genders I just can't ignore that information.  For me every playthrough is different story where only my PC changes and every other character is the same. They will react differently to my PC's actions but they just don't change.  I need proof that a male LI can be straight in one playthrough and gay on the other playthrough. So that characters could be playersexual I would need them to tell a different story about their past romantic relationships to me depending on my PC's gender for example or that developers will say that these romances are playersexual. Otherwise I can't believe it.

[Jagged Orchid]

I could just as easily say that they are not playersexual unless they make it known that they are straight in one playthrough and gay in another.  Just because you don't see the content because of the choices you make doesn't mean that it didn't happen.  It would be like saying, "Well Alistair isn't a virgin in my playthrough because I didn't engage in that conversation with him."

It's ambiguous, so there's no right answer here, but it's safe to say that the "a bi person is only canonically bi if they declare it explicitly" has been confirmed by numerous devs as a fallacy in regards to these games.

 

 

I agree with that... It's sort of my point. Just saying because they can romance either a male or female pc does not mean they are bisexual. Not really. Unless that character comes out and tells us, we have no way of knowing what their orientation is. It's just like in real life. Unless I come out and tell someone I'm only attracted to women, they have no way of knowing what my sexuality is. What a character does in one playthough is not tied in to another playthrough.

 

 I also always play as a female PC but if I know that a character can be romanced by both genders I just can't ignore that information.  For me every playthrough is different story where only my PC changes and every other character is the same. They will react differently to my PC's actions but they just don't change.  I need proof that a male LI can be straight in one playthrough and gay on the other playthrough. So that characters could be playersexual I would need them to tell a different story about their past romantic relationships to me depending on my PC's gender for example or that developers will say that these romances are playersexual. Otherwise I can't believe it.

 

Fair enough. I'm not going to tell you that you can't look at it that way. If that is something you feel you need, who am I to tell you that you are wrong. I just don't agree. I don't need someone to give me their whole background. I'm the same way in real life. If I'm dating someone and they are attracted to me, I don't feel the need to know if they are gay or straight or bi or anything in between. Maybe, I'm more laid back and it, I don't know. 

 

As far as the game goes though. It doesn't matter to me. I guess, I just don't see why another persons playthrough should matter to me. Like in DA2, Merrill could be romanced by male or female Hawke. I only did her romance once, but the idea that she can romance a male Hawke in some alternate universe never impacted that romance. It didn't change my opinion of that character or her romance. 

[Farewell]

Fair enough. I'm not going to tell you that you can't look at it that way. If that is something you feel you need, who am I to tell you that you are wrong. I just don't agree. I don't need someone to give me their whole background. I'm the same way in real life. If I'm dating someone and they are attracted to me, I don't feel the need to know if they are gay or straight or bi or anything in between. Maybe, I'm more laid back and it, I don't know. 

 

As far as the game goes though. It doesn't matter to me. I guess, I just don't see why another persons playthrough should matter to me. Like in DA2, Merrill could be romanced by male or female Hawke. I only did her romance once, but the idea that she can romance a male Hawke in some alternate universe never impacted that romance. It didn't change my opinion of that character or her romance. 

 

I don't feel that I need to look at the characters as I look at them. For me there are evidence that they are bisexual and I just can't ignore it. It's like any other clues about the world. They are there but you might not see it because of your actions or who you are but I use those clues or evidence to form my perception of the fantasy world and the characters who live in it. I'm not saying that your way of playing the game is wrong either. I just see it's very different than mine.

[pace675]

Before I reply to you Mr. Schumacher, I got to say this. If it seemed if I came off seemingly harsh or uncaring about my foray into this topic, for this was not my intent. As I look back over what I have wrote I can see how it can be interpreted other ways than from what I meant, for that I do apologize for.

 

 

 

 

Just curious, is it possible that you're making assumptions about how a bisexual person should behave, and that those assumptions may not actually be universally correct for all bisexuals (or even many)?

 

 

Well as I had a little time to step back and take a look, I fell into one of Mr Gaider's predictions: http://dgaider.tumbl...tions-on-anders Part two and a dash of part three. So I had to take a step back and reexamine why I do not like the way I find the character was presented  (As I have stated before I do not care about one's sexual preferences. And immediately backed off when a user pointed out that Mr Gaider made a blog entry about his intent with Anders was[link posted above]).

 

I and much to my utter dismay and shock upon reflection slapped his inconsistencies to his what not to his sexuality (Big no no). Knowing the author's intent I still dislike they way the approach with Anders was taken in DA2 in his presentation to us. A little of this angst does come from him being the plot hammer in act 3, but all the lead ups and what little discourse M/FHawke had with Anders (Even with Anders being more open to discussion his past with MHawk) Anders' actions seem throughly contradictory.

[Hellion Rex]

Wanted to give some love to our favorite horny friend

 

A WIP Iron Bull by http://marccus-sketch-blog.tumblr.com/

 

[Autumn Crowe]

Wanted to give some love to our favorite horny friend

 

A WIP Iron Bull by http://marccus-sketch-blog.tumblr.com/

 

Wow.  Just gorgeous.

[Ispan]

Wanted to give some love to our favorite horny friend

 

A WIP Iron Bull by http://marccus-sketch-blog.tumblr.com/

*snip*

 

Wow, beautiful!  That art contains so much manliness, I love it