12496 réponses à ce sujet

[JohnstonMR]

Sorry if I made any of you folks uncomfortable by using the word "queer". In my experience, the only time I've heard it as a slur is when it's used as a noun, and I always use it as an adjective (aka, I always say "Queer people" or "queer foks", NEVER "queers" or "that queer"). I've had "homosexual" used against me far more frequently, and I'd never use it to talk about myself. It's the word my Seventh Day Adventist family loves to say with a sneer.

 

It's really a shame there's no universal word that all of us like/can agree on. :/ But if "queer" makes you guys uncomfortable, I'll make an effort to avoid it. 

As someone who dislikes the word, I think you should use it if it's the word you prefer.  I can't speak for others, but I'll deal with my issues.  

[AkiKishi]

The word just reminds me of Imoen. 

[Ryzaki]

The word just reminds me of Imoen. 

 

Oh god everytime she said "you're a queer fellow." my eye twitched. Not because of the word but she kept on saying it so often it became a ear annoyance.

[AkiKishi]

Oh god everytime she said "you're a queer fellow." my eye twitched. Not because of the word but she kept on saying it so often it became a ear annoyance.

 

It was her go to phrase when you selected her. Bit like Zug Zug when you selected a peon.

[JohnstonMR]

This thread is a riot.

 

There never used to be so many funny people in this hellhole.

Are we reclaiming it?  

[JohnstonMR]

I've gotten this one: "You're married to a man, so you must be straight!" 

 

I get that a lot.  My wife (also bi, but of course that's ok with the dudebros) was asked by an acquaintance of hers what she'd do if I ever left her for a man.  She just said "What would you do if your husband left you for a skinny blond?"

[JohnstonMR]

LGBT is a generalized category, correct? Why would you allow someone to call you a transgender or lesbian? When it comes to the word 'queer', I completely agree that its an akward word. It does not sound right.

Eh.  Lots of people like to use the entire initialism to be inclusive.  I just shrug and get on with it.  I generally just say "gay" to mean ALL LGBT folk, but that's a remnant of my youth and I know people don't like it these days. 

[aTigerslunch]

I was going to comment along with current topic but decided not to. Wasnt bad, just off topic.


Its getting very close to E3! Yay! Soon hopefully get to learn who is romanceable by who. Waiting to see fem! Inq too, would be awesome.

[Allan Schumacher]

That's not the issue.

 

People were mad that they got Rivalry points for turning Anders down, which was the game saying that you need to romance the guy to get friendship points.

 

Which you know, shouldn't happen.

 

I'd be more amenable to this situation if it wasn't a situation where recovering from the rivalry points was trivially easy.

 

If we had masked the friendship/rivalry system, I doubt anyone would have cared, even if the game logic was still the same.

 

 

Plus there's ways to get through it where no rivalry points are created.

[Giggles_Manically]

[Jaison1986]

I'd be more amenable to this situation if it wasn't a situation where recovering from the rivalry points was trivially easy.

 

If we had masked the friendship/rivalry system, I doubt anyone would have cared, even if the game logic was still the same.

 

 

Plus there's ways to get through it where no rivalry points are created.

 

They could also make it like Fenris, who also flirts with you, but you can give an neutral response and that was that. In fact, I don't think I ever saw someone make this kind of complaint about Fenris the same way they did about Anders. i for one did not care that another guy flirted with me, but it was about the fact that I was forced into an awkward situation just for being nice.

[Allan Schumacher]

They could also make it like Fenris, who also flirts with you, but you can give an neutral response and that was that. In fact, I don't think I ever saw someone make this kind of complaint about Fenris the same way they did about Anders. i for one did not care that another guy flirted with me, but it was about the fact that I was forced into an awkward situation just for being nice.

 

The lack of more diverse responses IS a very valid concern.

 

That Anders (or any other character) may feel miffed (regardless of the response) isn't something that really bothers me all that much though.

[Giggles_Manically]

Honestly its execution over content in that scene for me.

 

It just comes off kinda well awkward when Anders flirts with hawke and their is like no gentle way to say no.

Though really I just go the snarky way so Anders goes all sparkly over MAGES and avoid it.

 

Then again Fenris and Isabela both openly flirt with Hawke and people dont care there either.

[Grieving Natashina]

<snip>

I really hate that particular comic.  I'm not a fan of Ctrl-Alt-Del in general, but that comic has been tossed around for years and it only shows how insecure some are about getting hit on by a guy.  Once.  That you can reject and move on from. 

 

Tim Buckley must love that button, as does anyone else that uses that comic to "prove a point" about Anders hitting on you.  Mr. Buckley, as well as his fans that feel that comic is slightly accurate, really need to get over it.  

 

For one, that's such an exaggeration is extremely eye-rolling.  It isn't funny then, and it's not funny now. For another, you do realize that you not only have to get to Act 2, you have to finish his personal quest before you can even try sleep with Anders. Oh and you have to hit the heart button pretty much every time it comes up for the results of that stupid comic to be even remotely accurate.  He gives you plenty of warnings that it isn't a good idea, and he doesn't hit on you again if you turn him down.  He doesn't really hit on Hawke directly again if you return the flirt unless Hawke initiates it.  So it's not like he's constantly throwing himself at you.

 

 And, as Allen mentioned, 15 rivalry is really easy to overcome.  Take him on the first couple of big pro-mage quests after you turn him down and you'll be fine.  Even if you turn him down, you can get him to fairly high Friendship by the end of Act 1.

 

Finally, if you're going to post that ridiculous picture, at least add your own caption to it.  No need to picture spam.

[Former_Fiend]

I've gotten hit on and disapproval from Anders after rejecting him without ever touching the flirt option.

[Allan Schumacher]

I've gotten hit on and disapproval from Anders after rejecting him without ever touching the flirt option.

 

So Anders took it strongly and was maybe a bit sensitive about it?  The rivalry is where I really struggle to empathize.  For me it's "So? The character responded in a particular way.  It happens sometimes."

 

The comic refers to spontaneous sex with Anders.  The comic in and of itself doesn't bother me (I laughed), but it's not really reflective of how the game is.  If you end up having sex with Anders, you made a couple of explicit decisions to make that happen.

[Grieving Natashina]

So Anders took it strongly and was maybe a bit sensitive about it?  The rivalry is where I really struggle to empathize.  For me it's "So? The character responded in a particular way.  It happens sometimes."

 

The comic refers to spontaneous sex with Anders.  The comic in and of itself doesn't bother me (I laughed), but it's not really reflective of how the game is.  If you end up having sex with Anders, you made a couple of explicit decisions to make that happen.

I'm just sick of it being used to show how one flirt means that Hawke just slept with Anders.  That's my main issue with it.

 

As far as Anders goes, he's a needy guy with a pretty bad sense of timing.  Sometimes I wonder if it's not just the rivalry players take issue with.  I wonder if it's more the timing.  We just had to kill Karl, that Hawke (no matter what) at least knows was a good friend to Anders.  Plus, he had just revealed his abomination status as well.  That was very bad timing and while it makes sense with his character (lonely and clinging to the only person to show him kindness in a long time that wasn't a patient,) I'm sure it threw some players off.  It threw me off the first time as well.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm just sick of it being used to show how one flirt means that Hawke just slept with Anders.  That's my main issue with it.

 

That's fair.  My post wasn't so much directed to you specifically.  I do believe that most people overstate it and anyone using the comic to illustrate the game is being disingenuous.  I won't dispute there's other problematic elements as well.

 

There are people that have espoused all the reasons you listed.  The timing of it plays into effect as well.  But the most common thing I come across is the rivalry.  There may be other aggravating circumstances, but many do seem to be upset that the feel "you have to be gay in order to be his friends."  When the reality is the insistence of "any rivalry points means I'm doing it wrong" is overstated, easily recoverable from, and utterly inconsequential in the long term of the game.

[Former_Fiend]

So Anders took it strongly and was maybe a bit sensitive about it?  The rivalry is where I really struggle to empathize.  For me it's "So? The character responded in a particular way.  It happens sometimes."

 

The comic refers to spontaneous sex with Anders.  The comic in and of itself doesn't bother me (I laughed), but it's not really reflective of how the game is.  If you end up having sex with Anders, you made a couple of explicit decisions to make that happen.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me at all that Anders hits on you, or even that rivalry happens when you turn him down.

 

It's just that I've seen it claimed that the scenario where you either accept his advances or he disapproves only happens if you initiate flirting, which is blatantly not true. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Oh, don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me at all that Anders hits on you, or even that rivalry happens when you turn him down.

 

It's just that I've seen it claimed that the scenario where you either accept his advances or he disapproves only happens if you initiate flirting, which is blatantly not true. 

 

Hmmm, I think you misread.  He only disapproves if you've been taking the diplomatic approach with him thus far, not ostensibly flirting.  He definitely will give disapproval if you haven't flirted yet.  Just not in all cases.

 

It's been sooooooooo long for me, so I'll have to defer to someone else for the details :S

[Al Foley]

I can tell you I was shocked and annoyed, since I just did the scene where I rejected his initial romance and he said 'strictly professional' I'm thinking 'that is not what I meant, we can still be chums....Anders 10 rivalry points.... 

 

Ten rivalry points is one of the largest margins of points you can get in the game for any one action, from what I have experienced anyways I see few larger then that.  So I just think it was shocking and a poor design decision, in that specific case. 

[pallascedar]

I can tell you I was shocked and annoyed, since I just did the scene where I rejected his initial romance and he said 'strictly professional' I'm thinking 'that is not what I meant, we can still be chums....Anders 10 rivalry points... . 

 

Ten rivalry points is one of the largest margins of points you can get in the game for any one action, from what I have experienced anyways I see few larger then that.  So I just think it was shocking and a poor design decision, in that specific case. 

 

Things that will get you 10 Friendship points in Act I:

Refusing to deal with the hunger demon in the deep roads.

Respond aggressively to Merrill when she first uses blood magic.

Accepting Petrice's Quest

Not handing Ketojan over to the Qunari.

Letting Feynriel go to the Dalish.

 

I generally play a mage-sympathetic Hawke and Anders is generally my least favorite party member. I've never failed to get him to max friendship.

 

And that's just Act I, and there are a ton of +5 things. The reality is this: if you are sympathetic to mages you will get friendship with Anders. If you aren't you will get rivalry. Those 10 rivalry points mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

[daveliam]

It's been sooooooooo long for me, so I'll have to defer to someone else for the details :S

 

This is from the wiki:

• You can avoid both rivalry gains and flirting by choosing the very first "End romance" option.
• For a male Hawke who does not want to romance Anders, but at least gain some friendship, you can flirt with Anders ("At least he got a nice body."), ask the follow-up question ("Together?") and then select the "End romance" option. This will result in Anders: friendship (+5) and you will not be in a romance with him

Here are the rest of the options for that dialogue sequence:

Choice 1. All options result in no approval change:

• (Helpful) I'm always ready to listen.
• (Humorous) It happens a lot.
• (End romance) Don't do it again. (Conversation ends)

Choice 2:

• (Diplomatic) You did the right thing. (to Choice 3.1)
• (Humorous) That doesn't make it better. (+5) (to Choice 5)
• (Aggressive) You should have known better. (+10) (to Choice 5)
• (Flirt) At least he got a nice body. (+5)
  • If Hawke is female, (to Choice 4.1)
  • If Hawke is male, additional question becomes available (to Choice 3.2 if it's asked, to Choice 4.2 if it's skipped)

Choice 3.1:

• (End romance) Yes. (+10) (Conversation ends)
• (Flirt) No. (+10) female (to Choice 4.1) / (+5) male (to Choice 4.2)
• (Flirt) It's.. unexpected. (+10) (to Choice 4.1 or 4.2)

Choice 3.2. If Hawke is male and the question "Together?" is asked:

• (End romance) Yes. (Conversation ends)
• (Flirt) No. (to Choice 4.3)
• (Choice) I've never thought about it. (to Choice 4.3)

Choice 4.1. If Hawke is female. All options result in no approval change:

• (Diplomatic) Hurt me? (Conversation ends)
• (Flirt) I don't mind a little pain. (Conversation ends)
• (Aggressive) I can take care of myself. (Conversation ends)

Choice 4.2. If Hawke is male:

• (Helpful) I'm sorry. (+5) (to Choice 5)
• (Flirt) Let's talk about me. (+5) (to Choice 5)
• (End romance) Too much information! (+15) (Conversation ends)

Choice 4.3. If Hawke is male, available after Choice 3.2:

• (Helpful) I'm sorry. (+5) (to Choice 5)
• (Flirt) Let's talk about me. (+5) (to Choice 5)
• (Aggressive) Those bastards! (to Choice 5)

Choice 5. All options result in no approval change:

• (Diplomatic) That's horrible.
• (Humorous) You are getting angry.
• (Aggressive) The templars have reasons.

 

 

So there are at least two ways in which you can not get in a relationship with Anders and still not take rivalry points.  The problem is that these two ways are unsatisfactory to some people.  The problem with their concerns is that they are dealing with a difficult and moody guy.  It's perfectly within Anders' character to get all pissy about being rejected.  It's not that there aren't options.  There are about a dozen ways that this conversation can go.  They just aren't happy with any of them.  That's fine, but I can't help but think, "big deal...."  It's no different, to me, than saying, but I want to kill the mage, but I don't want to get rivalry points with Anders.  Fine.  You can want that, but it's not an option with that character.  At least that's my impression.

[Ryzaki]

I can tell you I was shocked and annoyed, since I just did the scene where I rejected his initial romance and he said 'strictly professional' I'm thinking 'that is not what I meant, we can still be chums....Anders 10 rivalry points... . 

 

Ten rivalry points is one of the largest margins of points you can get in the game for any one action, from what I have experienced anyways I see few larger then that.  So I just think it was shocking and a poor design decision, in that specific case. 

 

10 rivalry points...isn't that much.

 

Fenris can get a max of 25 when recruited by a mage.

 

There's several +15 gains.

 

Merrill will have her friendship/rivalry score reversed if refuse to give her the knife. (I.E. If she's at 80 friendship you'll pretty much get 160 rivalry to push her to 80 rivalry. Only time this doesn't happen is if she's maxed).

[JadePrince]

To me, complaining about Anders' rivalry gain smacks a bit of "This character didn't react the way I wanted him to react!" Personally, I LIKE that the companions each have their own particular 'buttons'. Maybe Anders is sensitive to rejection. Merrill hated you for not giving her the knife, but noone is complaining about her massive rivalry gain that happens even though you're making choices that are arguably for her own good. When I played DAO, I hated that Morrigan lost approval points every time I was even remotely nice to someone. But instead of calling it a bad design decision, I just chose to leave her at camp and make up those points in other ways.

 

Maybe they didn't give Hawke enough variety in dialogue options, I don't know. I know I made it out of that conversation without either romancing him or pissing him off on my first try, so, I guess your mileage may vary.

 

Personally I hope that DA:I has companions who are very individual in terms of their likes and dislikes and I hope they don't all just default to thinking you're the cat's meow, even if you say or do things that upset them. If you do something they don't like, I expect approval losses (or whatever system they've built for the new game).