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How male Amell is ethnically or personality wise different from female Amell?
Ummm... you decide their personalities for yourself? So, they're as similar or as different as you make them. My male Amell might be completely different from your female Amell.
But that doesn't really matter. Just because Anders and Cullen didn't display an attraction to any male characters doesn't mean anything at all, least of all that your warden was "ugly".
1. Male LIs: Cullen, and 2 of Iron Bull, Solas, or Varric. Fem Li's: Other than Cassandra, I have no idea, mainly because I'd like to think there's another female companion besides the blonde elf rogue that hasn't been revealed yet.
2. Vivienne being an LI would make my day year.
3. A female qunari companion would be nice.
4. Bi-sexual/Playersexual
5. 6 now that Cullen has been revealed as a romance.
6. Yes to both because, otherwise, Cullen is a companion and I feel like he overlaps too much with Cassandra for that to be the case. Plus I'd rather have a Grey Warden in my party. As for how it works, I assume it'd be like Mass Effect 3 where they get a good amount of content, but not as much as a companion LI, due to not being in the party.
Geese, people nowadays and their lack of sense of sarcasm...Ummm... you decide their personalities for yourself? So, they're as similar or as different as you make them. My male Amell might be completely different from your female Amell.
But that doesn't really matter. Just because Anders and Cullen didn't display an attraction to any male characters doesn't mean anything at all, least of all that your warden was "ugly".
This is like Anders' situation though. In previous games both he and Cullen showed interest only in PC and people of the opposite gender
So unless it means that our male PCs were ugly as frag it seems like a retcon. And I don't like retcons
Oh, and all this "Thedas-is-100%-bi" is kind of weak since we rarely if ever see bisexual relationship outside of the party. If it was that common we would surely see such families, couples in great amounts, wouldn't we?
Unless of course bioware are simply doing a bad job at showing it in the game, novels and comics...
Where to begin?
Okay, so Anders wasn't a romance option in DA: A. Yes, he made a few off the cuff banter lines about "pretty women", but that in no way indicates that his bisexuality in DA 2 is a retcon. His writer has already stated that Anders was conceived as a bisexual character back in DA: A development.
Cullen may or may not be bisexual. He might have expressed a crush on a female mage 10 years earlier, but only if you played as a female mage. The same way that Fenris maybe hooking up Isabela isn't enough evidence to tell us what his sexuality is, this isn't enough for Cullen. We know he liked women. If were to be gay, then that would read as a retcon to me. However, if it turns out that he likes both women and men, then that's not a retcon. I'll put it this way. If you and I go out for dinner and I order the steak, you can assume that I like steak. If, 10 years later, we go out for dinner again, but this time I order the chicken, it's not a "retcon". It's not a drastic change in my personality. It's just that I have always liked both steak and chicken, but you only had evidence about me liking steak.
And what, exactly, is a "bisexual relationship"? Is a bisexual man in a relationship with a straight woman a "bisexual relationship"? Because we've seen, literally, dozens of man/woman relationships and I can't think of a single one (except maybe Oghren) who indicated that they are straight and not bisexual. People see a man and woman in a relationship and assume that both people are straight. Or two men in a relationship and assume that both are gay. But that's not necessarily the case. Now, do I think that everyone in Thedas is bisexual? No, I don't. However, can I safely say that there is a chance that there are more bisexuals in Thedas than (at least those who admit it) in real life? Yeah, I might be able to make that statement. So unless you are advocating that every NPC who is in a relationship has to openly state their sexuality in some way ("Inquisitor, please save my wife! I mean, I also fancy men, but I really like her best!"), how exactly do you want Bioware to "show" bisexuality? It seems silly to me.
I love the Defrosting Ice Queen trope, but only for lesbian romances
Oddly enough, this type tends to be the straight female LI only. Almost implies that only males can 'warm' a woman's heart and not other women. 
I assume that a character is bisexual if both male and female protagonists can have a romance with that character.
I assume that a character is bisexual if both male and female protagonists can have a romance with that character.
Me too. Unless, as a male PC, they say, "I'm only into men." and as a female PC, they say, "I'm only into women.", I can't image why people would assume that they are "playersexual" instead of bisexual. We've not seen any true playersexual LI's ever, if you ask me.
Where to begin?
Okay, so Anders wasn't a romance option in DA: A. Yes, he made a few off the cuff banter lines about "pretty women", but that in no way indicates that his bisexuality in DA 2 is a retcon. His writer has already stated that Anders was conceived as a bisexual character back in DA: A development.
Cullen may or may not be bisexual. He might have expressed a crush on a female mage 10 years earlier, but only if you played as a female mage. The same way that Fenris maybe hooking up Isabela isn't enough evidence to tell us what his sexuality is, this isn't enough for Cullen. We know he liked women. If were to be gay, then that would read as a retcon to me. However, if it turns out that he likes both women and men, then that's not a retcon. I'll put it this way. If you and I go out for dinner and I order the steak, you can assume that I like steak. If, 10 years later, we go out for dinner again, but this time I order the chicken, it's not a "retcon". It's not a drastic change in my personality. It's just that I have always liked both steak and chicken, but you only had evidence about me liking steak.
And what, exactly, is a "bisexual relationship"? Is a bisexual man in a relationship with a straight woman a "bisexual relationship"? Because we've seen, literally, dozens of man/woman relationships and I can't think of a single one (except maybe Oghren) who indicated that they are straight and not bisexual. People see a man and woman in a relationship and assume that both people are straight. Or two men in a relationship and assume that both are gay. But that's not necessarily the case. Now, do I think that everyone in Thedas is bisexual? No, I don't. However, can I safely say that there is a chance that there are more bisexuals in Thedas than (at least those who admit it) in real life? Yeah, I might be able to make that statement. So unless you are advocating that every NPC who is in a relationship has to openly state their sexuality in some way ("Inquisitor, please save my wife! I mean, I also fancy men, but I really like her best!"), how exactly do you want Bioware to "show" bisexuality? It seems silly to me.
The romance system and most of the love interests are still up in the air, so I thought we could use a dedicated speculation thread to discuss all things romance related. For example;-Who do you think the love interests will be?-Who do you want the love interests to be?-What sort of love interests would you like to see in the future?-What system do you think they'll use and what system do you want? (playersexual, bisexual, some vague combination, 2/2/2, other restrictions)-How many love interests do you think there will be?-NPC romances; Do you think we'll get them? Do you want them? How do you think they'd work?
1. Cass, Cullen, DHMG, Sera, Solas, Scribe Girl
2. don't care, i probably check them all out anyway
3. i'm sucker for personality clashes, it's more fun. less drama please, more dialogues/interaction (and mocking options)
4. playersexual and i'd be interested (hopefully impressed) to see how they pulled that off (imagine romancing Morrigan as female or Alistair as a male)
5. 6 (4 followers + 2 NPCs)
6. seems like we get them. i don't care about them much and i think they are crap - i mean where's the fun if you can't prove how much of a baddas you are/show off (kill a dragon single-handedly, blindfolded) to a LI :3
Geese, people nowadays and their lack of sense of sarcasm...
Anyway, neither personality nor ethnics do not matter in case of Cullen's affection. It is trigged by PC character being a girl only. You can pick any line of dialogue and he still will nearly faint like a schoolboy. Flirt, be oblivious or bitchy - it does not matter.
So can be male PC and Cullen won't show any feelings.
So, yeah. I can imagine him realizing after DA2 that likes men but prior to that? Nope, seems too headcanoney
Oh, for the love of god. Ethics. ETHICS. As in morals.
Not ethnics. That is like, a whole other thing.
Nothing of what you said convinces me that at the point of DA:O Cullen wasn't planned as a straight pseudo-LI. Just like Tamlen and Gorim were (not sure bout Gorim tho).We talk about characters in a game, with a quest, story and specific relationships of their own. Everything that the devs show to us matter because it plays a role in building their image in a player's mind. Every word, every action, every decision matters when it comes to characters.In case of Cullen we were exposed to a number of dialogues which showed us what kind of relationship Amell/Surana and Cullen had. Dev's showed us what they wanted to show in order to express that part of story, that specific character etc. Cullen having a crush on Amell/Surana is one of his major traits. And more importantly it is romance themed and with that a sexual themed.Nothing that you or Gaider said explains one thing which makes it all seem like a retcon: why Cullen/Anders did not flirt with the male PC? Why? They could have done it - we did have Zevran, Lelianna, Isabella etc. So having a bisexual pseudo-LI is not a problem. But they didn't. You can talk all you want about real people not showing their sexualities because of reasons. But it is not about real people, it is about game characters and their decisions depend on devs. If something was missing from story then either it was purposely not added or not added by mistake..Real life is messy and random, a story has a clear structure and meaning. And so far there was no explanation why Anders or Cullen wouldn't flirt with male PC though they did it just fine with female PC.
Explanations are not necessary.
Explanations are not all necessary.
They are. It is a genre or 18+ "dark" or maybe "epic" RPG. It is not a fairy tale or some limmerick of uncle Sheogorath. It is supposed to have a logical structure. Not real-life structure, but logical: if A=B and A=/=C, then B=/=C etc.
Oh, for the love of god. Ethics. ETHICS. As in morals.
Not ethnics. That is like, a whole other thing.
Doesn't matter. Cullen falls for f!Amell/f!Surana regardless of anything
Why is it a problem if Cullen was planned to be straight in the beginning and it has been changed so that he is bisexual if it doesn't contradict what has been told earlier?
Am I the only one hoping Dagna's the other NPC LI??
Why is it a problem if Cullen was planned to be straight in the beginning and it has been changed so that he is bisexual if it doesn't contradict what has been told earlier?
Cullen changing into bi after DA:O as a part of his char development? It's definitelly not a problem. Saying that he was at the moment of DA:O kind of contradicts his previous characterisation. It's not even about sexuality, it is more about story since if analysed... it doesn't make much sense
In case of Cullen we were exposed to a number of dialogues which showed us what kind of relationship Amell/Surana and Cullen had. Dev's showed us what they wanted to show in order to express that part of story, that specific character etc. Cullen having a crush on Amell/Surana is one of his major traits. And more importantly it is romance themed and with that a sexual themed.
But here's the thing: Cullen didn't show any affections towards any female mages in the large majority of the playthroughs. Only those in which the Warden was a female mage. So it's not a "major trait" of his. In, literally, zero of my playthroughs does Cullen show any hints towards his sexuality.
Am I the only one hoping Dagna's the other NPC LI??
While I wouldn't mind a female dwarf LI, yea, I think you're kind of alone on that boat.
Logically, there was a real pseduo-romantic mini-"plot" concerning Cullen and PC. But only Cullen and female PC. There was nothing indicating any possible explanation why Cullen did not have an interest in male PC, except that, logically, he was not into men. Personality, ethics etc do not matter since they do not matter in case of female PC. Looks also did not matter in her case so why would they matter in his case, if we can change our appearance as we wish? So why he did not flirt with male PC if he met the same requirements as female PC except gender?
Cullen's reasons for sharing or not sharing his feelings are nobody's business but Cullen's.
Logically, if romance is an important part of the story (and it is, even if less than some other parts), then it should be as well-developed and well-written as everything else. Handwaving it and saying it does not require backstory, writing and analysis is pretty much saying it is unimportant and worthless like, let's say, naming objects for inventory. And even they get more respect
Romance isn't an important part of the story, it's completely optional.
It's not handwaving at all. Cullen's sexuality doesn't require a backstory any more than his hair colour does. He was born this way, hey.
Cullen changing into bi after DA:O as a part of his char development? It's definitelly not a problem. Saying that he was at the moment of DA:O kind of contradicts his previous characterisation. It's not even about sexuality, it is more about story since if analysed... it doesn't make much sense
I'm just speculating here but maybe Cullen was written to be straight in DAO. Then the developers or the writers or whoever has noticed that there is also quite many bisexuals or gay people playing DA series. So what comes to LIs then there might be a need to have bisexual LIs or gay LIs more. Well I think it's not reasonable to change Cullen into gay because he has shown some interest towards women. So only option is that he is made bisexual even if it wasn't intended in the beginning.
I'm just speculating here but maybe Cullen was written to be straight in DAO. Then the developers or the writers or whoever has noticed that there is also quite many bisexuals or gay people playing DA series. So what comes to LIs then there might be a need to have bisexual LIs or gay LIs more. Well I think it's not reasonable to change Cullen into gay because he has shown some interest towards women. So only option is that he is made bisexual even if it wasn't intended in the beginning.
Normally I would say just make a new character who's gay or bisexual
Cullen's reasons for sharing or not sharing his feelings are nobody's business but Cullen's.
Romance isn't an important part of the story, it's completely optional.
It's not handwaving at all. Cullen's sexuality doesn't require a backstory any more than his hair colour does. He was born this way, hey.
I'm out of likes, but *like*
Cullen's reasons for sharing or not sharing his feelings are nobody's business but Cullen's.
Romance isn't an important part of the story, it's completely optional.
It's not handwaving at all. Cullen's sexuality doesn't require a backstory any more than his hair colour does. He was born this way, hey.
Cullen's reasons are writers' business. They decide what happens in the game and for what reason. Ask any publishing writer and they'll tell you that writing characters is complex, every character has a reason to exist, a meaning, symbolism even. It's not just "oh this guy i like him lets make him". It is also "I have an idea for this guy, he will represent the culture of that country and his role is also to show what happens to people who get overwhelmed by hatred/loved" and etc
It is an important part of character development, especially in Bioware's games. And in real life as well
Actually, yep, if you think about. His hair colour can show from what part of country he is from. How his parents looks like, probably. it is also important to create an image: colours schemes can tell a lot about a character or at least what the writers wanted to tell. Granted I doubt that every NPC's image is so complex, but that's the basic idea
At the very least I think there's enough leeway for Cullen to have an attraction to men.
Now, if they were to suddenly have, say, Alistair have an attraction to men, or Morrigan have an attraction to women, then I'd start calling shenanigans.
I'm just speculating here but maybe Cullen was written to be straight in DAO. Then the developers or the writers or whoever has noticed that there is also quite many bisexuals or gay people playing DA series. So what comes to LIs then there might be a need to have bisexual LIs or gay LIs more. Well I think it's not reasonable to change Cullen into gay because he has shown some interest towards women. So only option is that he is made bisexual even if it wasn't intended in the beginning.
It seems quite logical to me as well
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