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Its more then likely that the Bisexual romance options are the Non-Party member characters. Thats a good way to defend against people complaining that the gay characters were sidelined.
This assumes that BioWare makes their romance to defend against future complains. I don't think they do so.
Lol, I don't think they give two sh!ts about those complaints.
That's an interesting take on it. It sounds plausible.
I wonder what sort of writing guidance the give about that sort of thing.
Maybe this is just my innate bias speaking, but all the FemShep male LI's seemed... passive? Submissive? The subordinate aspect is hard to avoid when you are The Commander, of course, but they were also all pretty much 'the woman must initiate any and all interest and activity.' I can't recall any in which the man took a leading roll in the romance at any stage- all the control and all the pacing was in Shepards. It all seemed so very heavy on the emphasis of being... safe? Controlled?
Which isn't a problem, mind you. It's not even a dynamic that's unique to FemShep: male Shep has it to varying degrees as well. But I seem to recall some of the female LI's showing more initiative in parts of the romance. Liara (can we count her?) shows interest in you regardless, even if you don't want her to. Miranda definitely has a dominant position and role in her romance climax. Tali... kind of does? I'm not sure how much of what she says and does in ME2 should be construed as part of her crush, since it's application to FemShep is vague.
Point is, in ME the writers seemed more comfortable in at least playing with assertive female LI's (or at least assertive at different points), but I can't recall any point where FemShep wasn't the assertive and dominant partner with the boys. I always wondered if it was because of concerns of how an assertive male LI might come across.
Maybe I'm misreading or misremembering it. I never did romances like many people. Regardless, I thought I'd throw it out there since it seems we're being mature about the topic.
This assumes that BioWare makes their romance to defend against future complains. I don't think they do so.
I think they definitely say they dont.
Its more then likely that the Bisexual romance options are the Non-Party member characters. Thats a good way to defend against people complaining that the gay characters were sidelined.
For the females its probably:
Straight: Casandra
Bi: "Scribbles"
Lesbian: Sera
For the men:
Straight: Dorian or Solas
Bi: Cullen
Gay: Dorian or Solas.
As much as i want character like Varric or Iron Bull to be available, i dont think theres a chance in hell.
Same with Viviene, but m not shedding any tears over her.
I can't see Cullen as Bisexual. I know that may be disappointing to a lot of male fans, but I just keep going back to the Circle origin. He doesn't have a crush on the male mage only the female and in 2 if you were an Amell in Origins I believe he talks about the male more like he respects him, but the female Amell, the crush is evident still. If he is, then he is. It just seems out of character for Cullen from Origins into DA2. I would think he would have had a crush on your male mage in Origins if he was bisexual, but I am pretty sure he might be a virgin and he may not have ever really thought about it before because duty came first. I'm going to go hide under the table to avoid anything thrown at me for this. 
I can't see Cullen as Bisexual. I know that may be disappointing to a lot of male fans, but I just keep going back to the Circle origin. He doesn't have a crush on the male mage only the female and in 2 if you were an Amell in Origins I believe he talks about the male more like he respects him, but the female Amell, the crush is evident still. If he is, then he is. It just seems out of character for Cullen from Origins into DA2. I would think he would have had a crush on your male mage in Origins if he was bisexual, but I am pretty sure he might be a virgin and he may not have ever really thought about it before because duty came first. I'm going to go hide under the table to avoid anything thrown at me for this.
Lol, maybe he just didn't find a male mage Warden attractive?
He doesn't have a crush on the male mage only the female and in 2 if you were an Amell in Origins I believe he talks about the male more like he respects him, but the female Amell, the crush is evident still.
Thats fair enough, but there was also a time in which Anders mentioned how he wanted a "Nice Girl" to run away with.
And a time when Qunari didnt have horns.
I want the bisexual LI (in the case there are six) to be advisor just to have everyone in the same situation, with the same number of romances available in the party and advisors.
It's not personally a big deal for me though.
but cassandra being straight wouldn't bei fair either, because I think you'll get her earlier in game than sera and she'll be more plot relevated.
I can't see Cullen as Bisexual. I know that may be disappointing to a lot of male fans, but I just keep going back to the Circle origin. He doesn't have a crush on the male mage only the female...
but let's be honest. it was very obvious, that morrigan and miranda had plans. I always knew, there was something coming. I just didn't know what it was. and lots of women are known to be schemers in literature and films and games. It gets soooo boring. I think it's a common characteristic of females to be manipulative whereas it's more common for guys to be physically aggressive or kind and friendly. So actually, it should be the opposite of what you said to make us feel surprised. females would be more difficult to see through if they behaved the usual way: emotional, weak, nice, kind...because we wouldn't see something different coming. Everytime I see a woman like Morrigan I think: well, the thousandth cold heartless manipulative scheming female character... and it never ends...
I get what you mean. Like I said, it might be the approachability. Even though you have seen that female personification a thousand times, you still talk to her and get to know her. I don't know if the same could be said for men. I could just see an immediate shut down of a lot of people if they came in contact with male Morrigan. The same way they would shut down if met with the emotional, "weak", kind female. I'm not sure what I would do if there was that Male Morrigan/Miranda romance option in a male. I did talk to both of the girls, but it was hard sometimes because they would just make me mad with the attitude. I trusted there was something more to them and it was more of a self preservation thing though and kept at it. I would hope I could do the same with the male version, but I don't know. I know that I can't talk to Ashley in ME1 because I just can't take it and Liara in 1 was hard to talk to because I didn't want to hurt her, but I didn't want to romance her either. By ME3 I adore Liara and she is one of my closest friends. But in 1 she came across too needy to me and I couldn't take it, but also didn't want to upset her so I just didn't talk to her. That was a shame. She is a really great character. Same with Zevran. I didn't trust him. I knew he was up to something and he had the way about him, not cold but not something I was sure I wanted to know more about. I can see something like that happening with a male LI like you describe, though Zevran reaaallly is close. People just saying No at the first snarky comment and waiting to turn him over to someone else because they suspect a knife at their back. It would be a very tricky path to create a male character that way just because men can be seen as harder? than women. Don't know if harder is the right word but I hope you know what I mean. I can't even think of any male character in literature that didn't turn out to be a bad guy at some point or at least perceived by all to be bad right up to his death that was like Morrigan or Miranda. And since he would be a LI, you would want people to talk to him otherwise they miss out on his story and the romance. I've seen aspects in male LIs before and they are some of the most contested LIs out there. I can't imagine what would happen if you wrapped everything into one male LI. Implosion maybe? Hate filled rants destroying the forum, twitter, and tumblr?
The reason for this could be something unrelated to the character or game world.
How many men flirt with a male PC in DA:O? I mean, actually show interest before you've shown interest in them? As a female PC, the only woman to openly hit on me was Leliana and Isabela, and Leliana's flirt line is to compliment my hair.
'Cullen shows bashful attraction to dudeWarden' wouldn't have flown back then. They might have created a guy only conversation path where you hit on him first, but this was before anyone knew Cullen would be popular, or more than just another minor character.
True, this. It was a different time last decade. I'm not sure we still have the cultural cojones to be comfortable with politely turning down the interest of other men and women we aren't attracted to. (That doing so gave you rivalry, ie bad, points with Anders probably didn't help.)
Though I can't remember if Zevran flirts openly with the male Warden. Or maybe he just got filed in under promiscuous elf?
Guest_Raga_*
This assumes that BioWare makes their romance to defend against future complains. I don't think they do so.
No, but they do repeatedly claim to take criticism into consideration and *many* people were displeased by the "stationary" homosexual options in ME3 because it made it seem as if they were a sort of second tier option below the non stationary straight and bisexual ones.
I want the bisexual LI (in the case there are six) to be advisor just to have everyone in the same situation, with the same number of romances available in the party and advisors.
It's not personally a big deal for me though.
And I'd like the straight LI to be the stationary NPC romance rather than the minorities.
I wonder what sort of writing guidance the give about that sort of thing.
Maybe this is just my innate bias speaking, but all the FemShep male LI's seemed... passive? Submissive? The subordinate aspect is hard to avoid when you are The Commander, of course, but they were also all pretty much 'the woman must initiate any and all interest and activity.' I can't recall any in which the man took a leading roll in the romance at any stage- all the control and all the pacing was in Shepards. It all seemed so very heavy on the emphasis of being... safe? Controlled?
Which isn't a problem, mind you. It's not even a dynamic that's unique to FemShep: male Shep has it to varying degrees as well. But I seem to recall some of the female LI's showing more initiative in parts of the romance. Liara (can we count her?) shows interest in you regardless, even if you don't want her to. Miranda definitely has a dominant position and role in her romance climax. Tali... kind of does? I'm not sure how much of what she says and does in ME2 should be construed as part of her crush, since it's application to FemShep is vague.
I always wondered if it was because of concerns of how an assertive male LI might come across.
True, this. It was a different time last decade. I'm not sure we still have the cultural cojones to be comfortable with politely turning down the interest of other men and women we aren't attracted to. (That doing so gave you rivalry, ie bad, points with Anders probably didn't help.)
Though I can't remember if Zevran flirts openly with the male Warden. Or maybe he just got filed in under promiscuous elf?
Zevran definitely openly flirts with a male warden if i'm not mistaken.
Zevran definitely openly flirts with a male warden if i'm not mistaken.
He does. But iirc, he follows up with "Is that alright?"
Zevran definitely openly flirts with a male warden if i'm not mistaken.
He does. It's why I always found the argument that people were freaked out about Anders hitting on them weird since the same thing happens with Zevran in DA:O. I guess part of the complaints was you also apparently got rivalry points for turning him down while you could get more "follower points" from Zevran as long as you let him down easy.
I get what you mean. Like I said, it might be the approachability. Even though you have seen that female personification a thousand times, you still talk to her and get to know her. I don't know if the same could be said for men. I could just see an immediate shut down of a lot of people if they came in contact with male Morrigan. The same way they would shut down if met with the emotional, "weak", kind female. I'm not sure what I would do if there was that Male Morrigan/Miranda romance option in a male. I did talk to both of the girls, but it was hard sometimes because they would just make me mad with the attitude. I trusted there was something more to them and it was more of a self preservation thing though and kept at it. I would hope I could do the same with the male version, but I don't know. I know that I can't talk to Ashley in ME1 because I just can't take it and Liara in 1 was hard to talk to because I didn't want to hurt her, but I didn't want to romance her either. By ME3 I adore Liara and she is one of my closest friends. But in 1 she came across too needy to me and I couldn't take it, but also didn't want to upset her so I just didn't talk to her. That was a shame. She is a really great character. Same with Zevran. I didn't trust him. I knew he was up to something and he had the way about him, not cold but not something I was sure I wanted to know more about. I can see something like that happening with a male LI like you describe, though Zevran reaaallly is close. People just saying No at the first snarky comment and waiting to turn him over to someone else because they suspect a knife at their back. It would be a very tricky path to create a male character that way just because men can be seen as harder? than women. Don't know if harder is the right word but I hope you know what I mean. I can't even think of any male character in literature that didn't turn out to be a bad guy at some point or at least perceived by all to be bad right up to his death that was like Morrigan or Miranda. And since he would be a LI, you would want people to talk to him otherwise they miss out on his story and the romance. I've seen aspects in male LIs before and they are some of the most contested LIs out there. I can't imagine what would happen if you wrapped everything into one male LI. Implosion maybe? Hate filled rants destroying the forum, twitter, and tumblr?
well, I don't think people would rage against it if it's done well. Maybe its a problem in video games, because most gamers are male and straight. And lots of male gamers want their main character to be the alpha man in the group. I think that's the reason, why male companions don't fit with the criteria that female characters have. If a female companion is cold, heartless and scheming, she's considered as sexy and intriguing, a male companion, however, wouldn't activate the same feelings in men. There would be a higher pressure of competition if there was another man who's as smart as the hero and who's cold blooded, scheming and always with better arguments.
but since I'm a woman, I'd love to have a scheming cold hearted male character the same way in which a straight man loves a female character who's as fascinating as morrigan.
He does. But iirc, he follows up with "Is that alright?"
Yeah, a reasonable reaction (imo) when you consider that the warden is an unstoppable killing machine who has a VERY big reason NOT to trust Zevran, and be extremely wary of his motives.
I was under the impression that everyone was an love intrest in the new game the guy at E3 did say we have more romances than ever before but I guess we can always take that with a pinch of salt
I'm so stoked Sera is a lesbian! it's refreshing. she seems awesome so far
of course I'm still kneeling in my prayer circle for cass to be available to femquisitors too
i hope she won't be a morrigan 2.0/redux situation for me, where my female PC forever pines after someone she can't have
Zevran openly flirts with the Dude and Lady Wardens upon their first meeting (the ambush). I cannot remember if you have to initiate the first flirt with him or if he just compliments/flirts about how handsome or beautiful the Warden is without prompt. But once recruited, he does compliment/flirt with Dude Warden. If I remember correctly, he even has a conversation line that is basically, "Hey, should I stop being flirty, bro?" To suss out if the Dude Warden is interested in him, doesn't care, or doesn't want that kind of attention from him. If you tell him to stop, he never does any kind of flirty behavior toward you again.
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