12496 réponses à ce sujet

[carlo angelo]

I REALLY REALLY hope not, because the interview stated that he would sleep with anyone, and we don't need more slutty bisexual characters like Zevran and Isabella for people to reinforce the old stereotype that bisexuals are all promiscuous, so they're understandably bisexual. Someone doesn't need a reason to be bisexual. 

 

I actually didn't think of it that way until you mentioned this. Because, in my mind, I kept thinking "oh, he's sexually liberated and as long as he's respectful of the other person's wishes and safety, that's good. More power to him." But then when you mentioned the promiscuous bisexual trope, my next thought was "Oh dear, how did I miss this one?".

 

I'm not sure how Iron Bull will be portrayed in that aspect considering that it's still early days, but I'm sure there's so much more to him than what he likes in a sexual partner and hopefully the promiscuity is downplayed. But at the same time, if it is played, I hope its dealt with with a degree of sensitivity more than what we've seen with Zevran and Isabela.

[Grieving Natashina]

so I don't see the problem if iron bull was bisexual and promiscuous. as you said there are still other bisexual characters (at least one) who might not have a higher sex drive.

I just don't want both of the bisexual companions in the same games to have an overactive sex drive.  I'd be fine with one of them being that way (like IB is shaping up to be,) but not both of the options.  

 

I'm not directing this at you, or at the DA team.  They are working hard to overcome some of the more negative tropes.  So don't take the following personally or as a bash against BioWare either.

 

Occasionally it feels like the media tells me I can't be bi because I happen to have been monogamous to a man for over 10 years.  I need to have sex with women regularly otherwise I'm not bi/pan?  Thanks mass media. 

[Aner91]

I actually didn't think of it that way until you mentioned this. Because, in my mind, I kept thinking "oh, he's sexually liberated and as long as he's respectful of the other person's wishes and safety, that's good. More power to him." But then when you mentioned the promiscuous bisexual trope, my next thought was "Oh dear, how did I miss this one?".

 

I'm not sure how Iron Bull will be portrayed in that aspect considering that it's still early days, but I'm sure there's so much more to him than what he likes in a sexual partner and hopefully the promiscuity is downplayed. But at the same time, if it is played, I hope its dealt with with a degree of sensitivity more than what we've seen with Zevran and Isabela.

 

Well, Zevran was raised in a whorehouse so i get that one lol , and for Isabella i just get this feeling it´s to get away from all the bad stuff that has happened to her, to help her forget and all that, she says it´s only skin deep to Merill so...
 

[LiaraShepard]

I just don't want both of the bisexual companions in the same games to have an overactive sex drive.  I'd be fine with one of them being that way (like IB is shaping up to be,) but not both of the options.  

 

 

I agree with this. But I think there have never been two promiscuous bisexual characters at the same time..I wouldn't call Leliana promiscuous (despite her past), only Zevran is very open when it comes to sex. And in DA2, it was Isabela, but not Anders. That's why I think, it's okay, to have one bisexual companion in DAI who has a higher sex drive. and I hope its iron bull because I'd be so happy to have him available for my male inquisitor. 

[Battlebloodmage]

I just don't want both of the bisexual companions in the same games to have an overactive sex drive.  I'd be fine with one of them being that way (like IB is shaping up to be,) but not both of the options.  

 

I'm not directing this at you, or at the DA team.  They are working hard to overcome some of the more negative tropes.  So don't take the following personally or as a bash against BioWare either.

 

Occasionally it feels like the media tells me I can't be bi because I happen to have been monogamous to a man for over 10 years.  I need to have sex with women regularly otherwise I'm not bi/pan?  Thanks mass media. 

The mass media like to portray stereotypes like blacks as thugs, Asians as asexual virgins, gays as feminine, bisexuals as stereotypes. I feel like they're dumbing it down for the general public, and worst yet, many people buy into it. This is why I hope companies like Bioware could avoid caricature of different groups. 

[Aner91]

I just don't want both of the bisexual companions in the same games to have an overactive sex drive.  I'd be fine with one of them being that way (like IB is shaping up to be,) but not both of the options.  

 

I'm not directing this at you, or at the DA team.  They are working hard to overcome some of the more negative tropes.  So don't take the following personally or as a bash against BioWare either.

 

Occasionally it feels like the media tells me I can't be bi because I happen to have been monogamous to a man for over 10 years.  I need to have sex with women regularly otherwise I'm not bi/pan?  Thanks mass media. 

Well, **** mass media lol

[Gwydden]

Well, Zevran was raised in a whorehouse so i get that one lol , and for Isabella i just get this feeling it´s to get away from all the bad stuff that has happened to her, to help her forget and all that, she says it´s only skin deep to Merill so...
 

I think if anything, being raised in a whorehouse might set you against promiscuity.

[Deviija]

I've shared my dislike of the Depraved Bisexual trope in this thread enough, I think, but my more pressing interest is how a promiscuous bisexual dude (IB or otherwise) will be portrayed in-game.  Isabela and Zevran talk more about their opposite-sex sexcapades more than same-sex ones.  Which is fine, Zevran even admits to liking women more.  But I would like to see a bi dude that has a preference more toward dudes, for the sake of difference, and because bi dudes that do rarely manage to get into our media are often paired with opposite-sex relationships more often than same-sex ones.  Just a personal interest and desire of mine to see.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, Zevran was raised in a whorehouse so i get that one lol , and for Isabella i just get this feeling it´s to get away from all the bad stuff that has happened to her, to help her forget and all that, she says it´s only skin deep to Merill so...
 

Being raised in a whorehouse shouldn't make him bisexual though, at least, people are born to be bisexual, gay, or straight, and Isabella used sex to forget stuffs, but it's still unfortunate that those characters are happen to be bisexuals. It kinda gives the impression that traumatic past caused people to be gay.

[Magpies]

I've shared my dislike of the Depraved Bisexual trope in this thread enough, I think, but my more pressing interest is how a promiscuous bisexual dude (IB or otherwise) will be portrayed in-game.  Isabela and Zevran talk more about their opposite-sex sexcapades more than anything else.  Which is fine, Zevran even admits to liking women more.  But I would like to see a bi dude that has a preference more toward dudes, for the sake of difference, and because bi dudes are in the media are often paired with opposite-sex relationships more than same-sex ones.  Just a person interest and desire of mine to see.

 

Yeah, I second that. I always get the feeling that they feel like the character has to somehow affirm his masculinity by preferring women when he's bisexual in a lot of media stuff and it makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

I agree with this. But I think there have never been two promiscuous bisexual characters at the same time..I wouldn't call Leliana promiscuous (despite her past), only Zevran is very open when it comes to sex. And in DA2, it was Isabela, but not Anders. That's why I think, it's okay, to have one bisexual companion in DAI who has a higher sex drive. and I hope its iron bull because I'd be so happy to have him available for my male inquisitor. 

Oh, I gotcha here.  You bring up a good point.  

 

Well, **** mass media lol

I don't watch much TV, I'm rarely on Twitter and the only reason why my FB is still active is to keep in contact with my extended family.

 

The mass media like to portray stereotypes like blacks as thugs, Asians as asexual virgins, gays as feminine, bisexuals as stereotypes. I feel like they're dumbing it down for the general public, and worst yet, many people buy into it. This is why I hope companies like Bioware could avoid caricature of different groups. 

 

I can safely tell you that is something that BioWare as a whole are very conscious of, and are striving to overcome.  For example, at the GDC from earlier this year, Manveer Heir talks about how there is not only mostly black thugs, but you rarely see women of color that have a lot of power.  I think that's why the DA team is taking pains with Vivienne to give her power beyond her magic, and doesn't strike me as anyone's second fiddle.  Even if I don't like her character, I think it's awesome and about time that a strong and capable lady of color is going to be a great inclusion.  Role models happen everywhere, even in games and I'm glad to see the industry start change to be aware of that.  It makes me excited for what's to come, especially from this company.

[LiaraShepard]

scientists don't say we're born with a certain sexuality. what's genetically determined is our tendency to exchange certain experiences that make us receptive for one sexuality or the other. and this is a process from childhood to adolsecence. It's not changeable anymore if we'll get past that age.

[Maria Caliban]

I suspect part of the problem is that I see these as the bisexuals in BioWare games: Silk Fox, Leliana, Zevran, Liara, Anders, Fenris, Merrill, Isabela, Kaiden, and Samira.

For some people, these are the bisexuals: Leliana, Isabela, and Zevran.

In my mind, BioWare has presented bisexuals as having a wide range of sexual temperaments. When people complain about the promiscuous bisexual - especially when they use the word slutty - I find it difficult to agree. I tend to want to defend being promiscuous because it's something that it's only okay for straight dudes to be.

Straight women, bisexual men and women, and gay men: when they go out and have lots of sex, it's them being a **** or spreading diseases or being perverse. When straight dudes have a ton of sex, it's rarely seen as reflecting poorly on them.

I mean, if Zevran were a straight male, would people think that he having lots and lots of sex was an insulting way to portray straight men? If he's a Lothario and likes both men and women, then it's a problem.

[Gwydden]

Being raised in a whorehouse shouldn't make him bisexual though, at least, people are born to be bisexual, gay, or straight, and Isabella used sex to forget stuffs, but it's still unfortunate that those characters are happen to be bisexuals. It kinda gives the impression that traumatic past caused people to be gay.

Not saying I believe sexual orientation to be about nurture not nature (I don't) but I suspect socialization may encourage bisexuality (to the point where even the slightly bicurious, which it seems are a staggering number, frequently engage in relationships with people of both genders)  even if it doesn't create it.

[Aner91]

I think if anything, being raised in a whorehouse might set you against promiscuity...

 

Really?...oh ok, i just meant that it is his way of living since he saw it every day and it got normal for him and all that...

I've shared my dislike of the Depraved Bisexual trope in this thread enough, I think, but my more pressing interest is how a promiscuous bisexual dude (IB or otherwise) will be portrayed in-game.  Isabela and Zevran talk more about their opposite-sex sexcapades more than anything else.  Which is fine, Zevran even admits to liking women more.  But I would like to see a bi dude that has a preference more toward dudes, for the sake of difference, and because bi dudes are in the media are often paired with opposite-sex relationships more than same-sex ones.  Just a person interest and desire of mine to see.

 

I know right? Btw check out Oz if you haven´t seen that tv series, helped me a bit as a male gay who was still in the closet by that time...

[Grieving Natashina]

scientists don't say we're born with a certain sexuality. what's genetically determined is our tendency to exchange certain experiences that make us receptive for one sexuality or the other. and this is a process from childhood to adolsecence. It's not changeable anymore if we'll get past that age.

Debatable, and I'll just leave it at that.

[Magpies]

I suspect part of the problem is that I see these as the bisexuals in BioWare games: Silk Fox, Leliana, Zevran, Liara, Anders, Fenris, Merrill, Isabela, Kaiden, and Samira.

For some people, these are the bisexuals: Leliana, Isabela, and Zevran.

In my mind, BioWare has presented bisexuals as having a wide range of sexual temperaments. When people complain about the promiscuous bisexual - especially when they use the word slutty - I find it difficult to agree. I tend to want to defend being promiscuous because it's something that it's only okay for straight dudes to be.

Straight women, bisexual men and women, and gay men and women, when they go out and have lots of sex, it's them being a **** or spreading diseases or being perverse. When straight dudes have a ton of sex, it's rarely seen as reflecting poorly on them.

I mean, if Zevran were a straight male, would people think that he having lots and lots of sex was an insulting way to portray straight men? If he's a Lothario and likes both men and women, then it's a problem.

 

The thing is, most people will have a general idea of what straight men are like because, well, you kinda can't escape interacting with them in everyday life even if you wanted to.
Bisexuality and any kind of non-heterosexuality on the other hand is not something that everyone has firsthand experience with and many people get all their information about minority groups from the media they consume.

And if this media portrays people who are bisexual in a promiscious way then they'll think all bisexuals are promiscious, too. And while there's nothing wrong with enjoying sex and sleeping around for either gender IMO, it does lead to harmful stereotypes like bisexuals being more likely to cheat, etc.

[Aner91]

Being raised in a whorehouse shouldn't make him bisexual though, at least, people are born to be bisexual, gay, or straight, and Isabella used sex to forget stuffs, but it's still unfortunate that those characters are happen to be bisexuals. It kinda gives the impression that traumatic past caused people to be gay.

Didn´t say that...but if Bioware wanted to make their character bisexual that just happened to be raised in a whorehouse, they can do that...and how people become gay and what not, i have no idea, perhaps it´s the water?

[Grieving Natashina]

The thing is, most people will have a general idea of what straight men are like because, well, you kinda can't escape interacting with them in everyday life even if you wanted to.
Bisexuality and any kind of non-heterosexuality on the other hand is not something that everyone has firsthand experience with and many people get all their information about minority groups from the media they consume.

And if this media portrays people who are bisexual in a promiscious way then they'll think all bisexuals are promiscious, too. And while there's nothing wrong with enjoying sex and sleeping around for either gender IMO, it does lead to harmful stereotypes like bisexuals being more likely to cheat, etc.

Therein lies my issue about it.  We need less Zevrans and Isabelas as representation of bisexuals for the Dragon Age games.  

 

Edit: Maria, you got a like because while I don't entirely agree with your post, you have a very valid point.

 

With Anders, he doesn't even admit he's bisexual to a female Hawke, though I'm not arguing that he is as the writers intended.  I will always find it peculiar that he is fine with telling Hawke less than 24 hours after they met that he's an abomination, but won't talk about his sexuality.  In a setting where s/s relationships aren't generally considered a big deal.  Alrighty then.

[Wulfram]

I suspect part of the problem is that I see these as the bisexuals in BioWare games: Silk Fox, Leliana, Zevran, Liara, Anders, Fenris, Merrill, Isabela, Kaiden, and Samira.
 

 

[pedant]There's also Sky[/pedant]

[LiaraShepard]

Therein lies my issue about it.  We need less Zevrans and Isabelas as representation of bisexuals for the Dragon Age games.  

 

Edit: Maria, you got a like because while I don't entirely agree with your post, you have a very valid point.

 

With Anders doesn't even admit he's bisexual to a female, though I'm not aruging that he is as the writers.  I will always find it peculiar that he is fine with telling Hawke less than 24 hours after they met that he's an abomination, but won't talk about his sexuality.  In a setting where s/s relationships aren't generally considered a big deal.  Alrighty then.

 

well, he mentioned the abomination thing because he couldn't hide it anymore. Hawke saw him fight in the church and he saw his eyes glistening. I think it was easiest for him to admit it instead of cooking something up. 

[Aner91]

Therein lies my issue about it.  We need less Zevrans and Isabelas as representation of bisexuals for the Dragon Age games.  

 

Edit: Maria, you got a like because while I don't entirely agree with your post, you have a very valid point.

 

With Anders, he doesn't even admit he's bisexual to a female Hawke, though I'm not arguing that he is as the writers intended.  I will always find it peculiar that he is fine with telling Hawke less than 24 hours after they met that he's an abomination, but won't talk about his sexuality.  In a setting where s/s relationships aren't generally considered a big deal.  Alrighty then.

That´s a good thing . that he toldus about the abomination thing, well we kinda just saw him turning blue and **** so he better explain lol...

[Aner91]

[pedant]There's also Sky[/pedant]

Sky was Bi?! cool , better play a male char in jade empire then, to try it out

[Grieving Natashina]

That´s a good thing . that he toldus about the abomination thing, well we kinda just saw him turning blue and **** so he better explain lol...

 Edited to make more bloody sense.  I think I need to go to bed pretty early today, so I apologize.

 

Fair enough, but if Hawke doesn't run screaming and continues to romance him despite the abomination part, then I have no clue why his sexuality would be a big deal after a few years.

[Battlebloodmage]

Not saying I believe sexual orientation to be about nurture not nature (I don't) but I suspect socialization may encourage bisexuality (to the point where even the slightly bicurious, which it seems are a staggering number, frequently engage in relationships with people of both genders)  even if it doesn't create it.

I agree with you on environment influence what's already there. There is such a thing as gay for pay where supposed straight guys were paid to have sex on-screen. Now, if you're really straight, it would be really hard to get up for someone they're not sexually interested in, and there are different ways to make money besides having to do that. I think it's that society is so obsessed with labeling that people who are bi-curious just identify as straight to avoid judgments and such. Maybe that's why it's more noticeable when a promiscuous bi character is portrayed that way since they stand out more.