12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

That still sounds incredibly crude. You are pretty much saying you would fire someone because they don't want to make exceptions that are of your liking. In fact this is simply ableist.

 

Look, this is simply a very personal subject for me. There are family members I don't associate with because of stuff like this. I've ended friendships because of stuff like this. So if I have the option of getting rid of party members in a video game because they display behavior that I find abhorrent in real life, then I am going to do that. 

 

 

Hell yeah

 

 

I think, in the case of Iron Bull at least, if he is restricted to qunari it's probably for safety reasons tbh. Would you kick him for that?

 

That's not a reason to restrict the relationship, though. The man has fingers.

[pallascedar]

And what are they, game makers?

Game makers with a budget and a release date. Creating more scenes takes more manpower or more time. They can't artificially create either.

[JJDXB]

I can understand people's point with regards to relevance to the real world, but even in a world where nobody is treated wrongly (and I use that phrase, and not the vague 'discriminated against') for being a different race, not everyone will be capable of being attracted to other races, the same way people will continue to find it difficult to find short, fat, skinny, buff, blondes, brunettes, redheads etc attractive.  It's not necessarily impossible, but people have and will alway have their 'type'.  The whole controversy with not being attracted to specifically races is purely because of the social connotations of human history up to the present.  I'd argue that Bioware's choice is actually the morally correct one.  Race shouldn't be any bigger a deal than sex, hair colour etc.  Until we hound LGBT persons for discriminating against certain sexes and/or genders, we can't hound people for not finding other facial bone and cartilage constructs, and heights (because, other than skin colour, those really the only physical difference worth mentioning) attractive.  This whole controversy only serves to prove to me that some people who believe themselves progressive on such matters are adamant on maintaining race as a significant issue, and, as far as I'm concerned, only furthering and deepening the divide with regards the stupid and ridiculous social construct that is 'race'.  If race wasn't a big deal (and again, it shouldn't be), not finding people attractive because of how their face is contructed or what colour their skin is ought to be as acceptable to society as not finding one particular sex unappealing.  Which is to say, it should be.

To expand within the context of the DA universe, it's still not xenophobic to not find yourself (physically) attracted to members of another species.  Because, like sexual orientation, you can't chose what you are attracted to.  My point is, once they introduced the gender restrictions, it would have been ridiculous to not have race restrictions.  I'm aware that romance isn't purely a physical thing, but no matter how hard I try, I'm not going to be able to make that hot, amazingly funny and perfect straight guy fall in love with me, as much of a bane on my life as it is - nor, for that matter, would several girls get their way with me.

NB: Race =/= ethinicity.  Race is an artificial social construct that seeks to group ethnicities and cultural traditions on superficial differences, therefore rendering those differences non-superficial.  Ethinicity is a group socio-biological identity defined in part by culture, language, location and history (and these differences are not superficial), but it is generally organic; that is, it grows and is not made.

[daveliam]

I am not comfortable with the suggestion that sexual orientation is a preference. Please do not confuse the two.

[Char]

I consider the realism argument to be invalid.
 
It's cherry picking and makes me angry when I see it because it's always applied arbitrarily.  "This thing that I support is realistic.  While this thing I cannot be bothered with is unrealistic."
 
With respect to romance content there's already a whole heck of a lot of things that aren't realistic due to the realities of it being a video game.

Can we have a sticky banner of some kind that says "Realism does not apply here!"

Because I would love that.
Essentially when we play the game we are being given the ability to run around inside the imagination of the team who created it. We can only explore, create, and experience the content that their imagination gives us.
I fully support arguments for representation, inclusion and diversity. Realism? Not so much

[Ajna]

Didn't Allan describe in great detail somewhere just how much work goes into romance scenes?  Do you really want John Epler to collapse from exhaustion, or just curl up in a ball and cry?!

[GriffinFire]

The bottleneck for creating characters is less writing, and more cin design.

 

DA2 had 2 player models and 4 love interests, meaning custom cinematic scenes (required if you have intimate touching) required 8 scenes (assuming you only need one).

 

DAI has 8 player models.  If we have at least 4 love interests (I suspect our minimum), that takes 32 scenes (assuming we only need one).

 

Alternatively, if we were to have no bisexual characters, we could use 4 (one gender, 4 races) per pairing, and we could have 8 love interests in the game with not tooooooo much extra work required by cinematics (writing would need more, but if it is determined that they have the capacity and cin design does not, then it's not a net drain on the overall timeline).

 

 

Now lets say we have those 8 love interests, and we mandate that in order to be fair they must be bisexual.  Now we have 64 scenes to make.  Lets assume a scene takes a cindesigner one day to make.  We just added a full man month of work to the cindesigners.  John Epler would be very, very sad

[TheodoricFriede]

Game makers with a budget and a release date. Creating more scenes takes more manpower or more time. They can't artificially create either.

Limitations breed creativity.

 

How do we make a Garrus or Tali romance work without breaking our time and money budget? Write it well and fade to black.

[Ryzaki]

Didn't Allan describe in great detail somewhere just how much work goes into romance scenes?  Do you really want John Epler to collapse from exhaustion, or just curl up in a ball and cry?!

 

Nope which is why I wanted fewer LIs and FTB to begin with.

 

*flees*

[Aner91]

Didn't Allan describe in great detail somewhere just how much work goes into romance scenes?  Do you really want John Epler to collapse from exhaustion, or just curl up in a ball and cry?!

Both? , but no, you are right we demand alot, but that´s human nature i guess...And for the Qunari sex = violent bed breaking, sten just joked with Morrigan, right?...RIGHT?! :S

[Ajna]

 

The bottleneck for creating characters is less writing, and more cin design.

 

DA2 had 2 player models and 4 love interests, meaning custom cinematic scenes (required if you have intimate touching) required 8 scenes (assuming you only need one).

 

DAI has 8 player models.  If we have at least 4 love interests (I suspect our minimum), that takes 32 scenes (assuming we only need one).

 

Alternatively, if we were to have no bisexual characters, we could use 4 (one gender, 4 races) per pairing, and we could have 8 love interests in the game with not tooooooo much extra work required by cinematics (writing would need more, but if it is determined that they have the capacity and cin design does not, then it's not a net drain on the overall timeline).

 

 

Now lets say we have those 8 love interests, and we mandate that in order to be fair they must be bisexual.  Now we have 64 scenes to make.  Lets assume a scene takes a cindesigner one day to make.  We just added a full man month of work to the cindesigners.  John Epler would be very, very sad

 

Thank you!

[Maria Caliban]

Limitations breed creativity.
 
How do we make a Garrus or Tali romance work without breaking our time and money budget? Write it well and fade to black.

Both Garrus and Tali were gender locked. If this is a 'I want to romance Sera with my male PC' conversation (and I suspect it is) then they are handling her the same way they handled Garrus and Tali.

[Ianamus]

 

I am not comfortable with the suggestion that sexual orientation is a preference. Please do not confuse the two.

 

They are essentially the exact same thing though, at least in my opinion. 

 

Is a person being completely unattracted to someones gender that different from a person being completely unattracted to any other quality? I don't really think it is. 

[TheodoricFriede]

Both Garrus and Tali were gender locked. If this is a 'I want to romance Sera with my male PC' conversation (and I suspect it is) then they are handling her the same way they handled Garrus and Tali.

Im not even going to get into how stupid it was that they were gender locked. Especially since the Dialog for them as same sex options was already on the game disk.

 

This isnt about orientation, its about race restrictions.

[falconlord5]

And what are they, game makers?

 

Game makers with a budget. Ultimately, something is going to have be cut.

[Aner91]

Both Garrus and Tali were gender locked. If this is a 'I want to romance Sera with my male PC' conversation (and I suspect it is) then they are handling her the same way they handled Garrus and Tali.

Well, i played a fem!shep in ME just so that i could romance Garrus...so i guess i will do the same in DA:I...oh, and ofc choose so that my race can romance them aswell...

[TheodoricFriede]

Game makers with a budget. Ultimately, something is going to have be cut.

Once again, get creative with your scenes.

 

Im not asking for a hardcore love scene, im asking to be able to be romantically involved with characters and not have it locked by something a stupid as Race!

[Mr.House]

Limitations breed creativity.

 

How do we make a Garrus or Tali romance work without breaking our time and money budget? Write it well and fade to black.

Seeing as Tali and Garrus fans complained about this......

[TheodoricFriede]

Seeing as Tali and Garrus fans complained about this......

And yet, we still ultimately got two of the best romance options in the series.

[Little Princess Peach]

I'm happy for other Sera fans, but I admit, it does put a dent in some of my plans. I wanted to be a Dalish mage for a change.. and she seemed like a cool character. I already felt odd since Solas kind of takes over the male elf mage (with a deep connection to the Fade) thing, but no other elf romance options to boot. Two things going against me here. So I've thrown that concept out.

Why not role play as a female and make her look masculine?

[falconlord5]

Once again, get creative with your scenes.

 

Im not asking for a hardcore love scene, im asking to be able to be romantically involved with characters and not have it locked by something a stupid as Race!

 

Which we don't know for sure is going to happen, anyway.

 

And in the end, no matter how creative they get, they are going to have to cut something. Either romances, something from the main game... something.

[daveliam]

They are essentially the exact same thing though, at least in my opinion.

Is a person being completely unattracted to men that different from a person being completely unattracted to any other quality? I don't really think it is.

Yes. They are different things. I PREFER vanilla over chocolate ice cream. I PREFER to drive to work instead of taking the bus. I PREFER blond men over brunettes. My sexual orientation is not a preference. I would be happy to discuss it further via PM, as I don't want to derail the thread, but I stand by my earlier statement.

[Ryzaki]

Well, i played a fem!shep in ME just so that i could romance Garrus...so i guess i will do the same in DA:I...

 

And I watched that romance on youtube because FemShep wasn't for me. XD

 

Well I guess I could manage to do all the romances now but...meh. My male charas will be for me

 

 

Once again, get creative with your scenes.

 

Im not asking for a hardcore love scene, im asking to be able to be romantically involved with characters and not have it locked by something a stupid as Race!

 

They probably would if they had infinite manpower and money. As it is certain things have to be cut. it sucks but that's just how it is.

 

But even something like a kiss scene or touching the PC's cheek would need to be differently animated depending on race. So I can get why the restrictions are there even if I don't agree with them.

[Ap0crypha]

I'm not even going to get into how stupid it is that they were gender-locked. Especially since the dialog for the same-sex option was already there.

 

IIRC, Tali's voice actress was uncomfortable with doing dialog for a s/s romance, so they cut it out.

 

And how is it stupid that people have their gender preferences? Garrus is into women, Tali into men. Are they supposed to set that aside and bone Shepard because s/he's so special?

 

(And yes, I know they do sort of do that, but that's because Shepard is human, not because s/he's so awesome they can turn straights bi).