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[Chari]

My egocentric mage warden would be offended that Cullen didn't show interest in or compliment his looks like his fem counterpart, even though he's hetero.

Warden: "You almost had me fooled but i discovered your little secret. You seriously think i wouldn't be offended?"

Cullen: "Okay... elaborate?"

Warden: "You're bisexual."

Cullen: "I care little for your ass backwards preju-" (irony much)

Warden: "No you blighted weasel you didn't hit on me! Kings and queens would've jumped at the chance."

Cullen: "Oh, so this is what it's about? Hahahahaha! I've errands to run so good day ser."

Warden: "Don't you walk away from me!, don't you dare! Explain yourself?"

Cullen: "Do you really want to know?"

Warden: *nods*

Cullen: *looks at the Warden from top to bottom* "Your fashion sense is clearly from the Storm Age while your color coordination is just atrocious. You smell a little like old socks, there's dirt under your fingernails, Your skin is ashy, you have chapped lips, I think i can smell halitosis on your breath ? The hair between your eyebrows makes you look like a neanderthal. Your hairstyle is so Divine Age, hmm... think i see some dandruff flakes too? And you totally have split ends. Again, i've errands to run so good day ser."

Warden:

*clap-clap*

Sadly it still proves nothing

[The Hierophant]

*clap-clap*
Sadly it still proves nothing

Who said is was trying?

[Chari]

Who said is was trying?

Trolling then? Oh well, still, majestic

[Gervaise]

What I found weird in ME3 was that my male Shepard had romanced Liara, then Tali and had simply been a good friend to Kaiden and then suddenly, just because he was a caring friend and visited him in hospital, they had him declaring his unrequited love for me.  It was genuinely one of the most awkward moments in a game because I felt I had in no way encouraged it, had never been aware that he was sexually attracted to me and yet felt really bad at having to reject him.

 

Luckily such a situation is not going to arise in DAI because we have a new PC.   So whilst I might be aware that back in DAO Cullen got all embarrassed with my girl Warden, my Inquisitor has no such prior knowledge.  

 

I will admit that where it gets awkward is when you say something a bit flirtatious or choose a heart icon dialogue because it seemed the most appropriate at the time (like Isbabella and the ship gift) and then suddenly she is turning up at the house expecting sex.   Even worse was when my male Hawke complemented Merrill's eyes way back at the beginning of Act 2 and then suddenly she turns up at the end of Act 3 thinking I'm interested in her (simply because it took that long for the flag to reach the right point on the friendship/rivalry scale) when I'd already cemented my relationship with Fenris.   Another awkward moment in both cases - that particular gay male Hawke was simply flirtatious!   I must admit that at least ME3 got that sorted out a bit better because when my male Shepard (in a relationship with Jack) tried flirting with Steve, the latter good naturedly pointed out that he knew he preferred the ladies.

 

I think so long as the companion is aware of your preference so you don't inadvertently give them the come on when you don't mean to, then that is better, but failing that I'll settle for just watching what I say.

[Abelas Forever!]

So even if it was decided that Cullen will be bisexual in DAI (and it hasn't been confirmed so we don't know for sure is Cullen bisexual or not) and he was written to be straight in DAO so what comes to the story we could assume as well that he was bisexual in DAO because there isn't any evidence that would prove it wasn't the case.

[Chari]

What I found weird in ME3 was that my male Shepard had romanced Liara, then Tali and had simply been a good friend to Kaiden and then suddenly, just because he was a caring friend and visited him in hospital, they had him declaring his unrequited love for me.  It was genuinely one of the most awkward moments in a game because I felt I had in no way encouraged it, had never been aware that he was sexually attracted to me and yet felt really bad at having to reject him.

 

Luckily such a situation is not going to arise in DAI because we have a new PC.   So whilst I might be aware that back in DAO Cullen got all embarrassed with my girl Warden, my Inquisitor has no such prior knowledge.  

 

I will admit that where it gets awkward is when you say something a bit flirtatious or choose a heart icon dialogue because it seemed the most appropriate at the time (like Isbabella and the ship gift) and then suddenly she is turning up at the house expecting sex.   Even worse was when my male Hawke complemented Merrill's eyes way back at the beginning of Act 2 and then suddenly she turns up at the end of Act 3 thinking I'm interested in her (simply because it took that long for the flag to reach the right point on the friendship/rivalry scale) when I'd already cemented my relationship with Fenris.   Another awkward moment in both cases - that particular gay male Hawke was simply flirtatious!   I must admit that at least ME3 got that sorted out a bit better because when my male Shepard (in a relationship with Jack) tried flirting with Steve, the latter good naturedly pointed out that he knew he preferred the ladies.

 

I think so long as the companion is aware of your preference so you don't inadvertently give them the come on when you don't mean to, then that is better, but failing that I'll settle for just watching what I say.

Lol, tbh, the moment Lelianna showed jealousy because my warden was romancing Alistair was one of the most awkward moments in the game for me. And it kind of hurt to see her heartbroken. But imho it was also a part I liked about DA:O romance, sometimes we send wrong signals and sometimes people get interested in us even if we are not interested in them. 

That's sad, but... very life-like

 

 

So even if it was decided that Cullen will be bisexual in DAI (and it hasn't been confirmed so we don't know for sure is Cullen bisexual or not) and he was written to be straight in DAO so what comes to the story we could assume as well that he was bisexual in DAO because there isn't any evidence that would prove it wasn't the case.

There quite was. I'd rather believe that he realises he is bi after the events of DA:O, than that for some unexplained reason he did not like m!Amell/Surana who is identical to f!Amell/Surana in everything except gender. Like, it definitelly wasn't the case back then

[Mockingword]

Cullen's reasons are writers' business. 

But they're not your business, and they're not my business either, and the writers don't have tell either of us anything.

 

Ask any publishing writer and they'll tell you that writing characters is complex, every character has a reason to exist, a meaning, symbolism even. It's not just "oh this guy i like him lets make him".

Hey. Guess what.

 

I have an Honours Degree in Creative Writing with a minor in Literature, and during the production of my thesis (a 20,000-word young adult fantasy novella), I was supervised by this guy: http://en.wikipedia....i/Anthony_Eaton

 

And I can tell you with perfect certainty (having read interviews, and essays, and had face-to-face time with several published authors) that, actually, a lot of writers don't intentionally put meanings or symbolism in their work. Actually, a lot of the time, meanings and symbolism are imposed on the work by the reader. Even if the author does have their own interpretation of their work, it's not actually any more valid.

 

 

It is an important part of character development, especially in Bioware's games. And in real life as well.

Sexuality isn't important in real life, except to jerks who can't mind their own business.

 

 

Actually, yep, if you think about. His hair colour can show from what part of country he is from. How his parents looks like, probably. it is also important to create an image: colours schemes can tell a lot about a character or at least what the writers wanted to tell. Granted I doubt that every NPC's image is so complex, but that's the basic idea

Alright then. Dazzle me.

 

What part of the country is Cullen from? What do his parents look like? What does his 'colour scheme' tell you about his character?

 

Why is any of this information actually important to understanding his character? And if it is so damn important, why wouldn't the writers just tell it to directly in the story? Why would they hide this vital information under vague "symbolism" nonsense, where it risks being misunderstood or going completely unnoticed?

 

What kind of half-decent writer doesn't tell you important information?

[Chari]

But they're not your business, and they're not my business either, and the writers don't have tell either of us anything.

 

DA is not a personal product for home use by only the devs. They work, they get money for that, I buy their product, I pay my money for that. Thus as a customer I have every right to show critisism of their writing just as I can show praise

 

Hey. Guess what.

 

I have an Honours Degree in Creative Writing with a minor in Literature, and during the production of my thesis (a 20,000-word young adult fantasy novella), I was supervised by this guy: http://en.wikipedia....i/Anthony_Eaton

 

And I can tell you with perfect certainty (having read interviews and had face-to-face time with several published authors) that, actually, a lot of writers don't intentionally put meanings or symbolism in their work. Actually, a lot of the time, meanings and symbolism are imposed on the work by the reader. Even if the author does have their own interpretation of their work, it's not actually any more valid.

 

For somebody with such "experience" you surely could act a little more civil :3

As one writer said, there are two types of writers: ones who create a structure first, and ones who do as they feel like. But even the latter write based on their personal experience, what they read, what they believe in. And, surprise, surprise, most of things what surround us have structure.

Readers may say as much as they want that "books belong to the readers", the truth is... they don't, unless you can prove it in a court

 

Sexuality isn't important in real life, except to jerks who can't mind their own business.

 

Sexuality is very important in real life, since it involves personal life, which involved relationships with people who surround you, it is strongly depends on the culture etc. If you can write a thesis I'm pretty sure you can read works concerning psychology, biology, sexuality in real life. I'm pretty sure you'll find them... enlightning 

 

Alright then. Dazzle me.

 

What part of the country is Cullen from? What do his parents look like? What does his 'colour scheme' tell you about his character?

 

Why is any of this information actually important to understanding his character? And if it is so damn important, why wouldn't the writers just tell it to directly in the story? Why would they hide this vital information under vague "symbolism" nonsense, where it risks being misunderstood or going completely unnoticed?

 

Fereldan seems strongly based on Ancient Britain and some basic northern fantasy cultures like Nords. Among them it seems blong hair, light-skin, large-build are quite common, (also are common black hair but anyway) we surely can say that Cullen does not resemble Rivain folk (Isabella, Duncan) nor Antiva folk (Zevran etc). So I can safely assume that he was born in Fereldan. And, well, that one of his parent is surely blonde.  

That's not much, as I said, since I don't think that they planned Cullen's bio to be very complex from the very beginning. At that time he was just an NPC, connected to a couple of quests.

Colour scheme? Usually light colours (hair, skin, blue (?) eyes) are used to create either an image of a soft, "innocent" character or cold and distant depending on the tone. It is also more eye-catching than dark colours. Thanks to it Cullen created an image of an innocent, kind-hearted young man. Surely his personality would be the same if he had a different colour scheme, but I think they would change his hair and face structure as well, to make a more memorable NPC. Look at Nathaniel, Loghain, Maric, Alistair, Cailan, Morrigan and say to me that colour combinations do not matter when it comes to character image

 

Symbolism "nonsense? You sure you wrote that thesis? Cause that seems very uncharacteristic for a writer to say.

Oh, and, well, "show, don't tell"

[Abelas Forever!]

What I found weird in ME3 was that my male Shepard had romanced Liara, then Tali and had simply been a good friend to Kaiden and then suddenly, just because he was a caring friend and visited him in hospital, they had him declaring his unrequited love for me.  It was genuinely one of the most awkward moments in a game because I felt I had in no way encouraged it, had never been aware that he was sexually attracted to me and yet felt really bad at having to reject him.

 

Luckily such a situation is not going to arise in DAI because we have a new PC.   So whilst I might be aware that back in DAO Cullen got all embarrassed with my girl Warden, my Inquisitor has no such prior knowledge.  

 

I will admit that where it gets awkward is when you say something a bit flirtatious or choose a heart icon dialogue because it seemed the most appropriate at the time (like Isbabella and the ship gift) and then suddenly she is turning up at the house expecting sex.   Even worse was when my male Hawke complemented Merrill's eyes way back at the beginning of Act 2 and then suddenly she turns up at the end of Act 3 thinking I'm interested in her (simply because it took that long for the flag to reach the right point on the friendship/rivalry scale) when I'd already cemented my relationship with Fenris.   Another awkward moment in both cases - that particular gay male Hawke was simply flirtatious!   I must admit that at least ME3 got that sorted out a bit better because when my male Shepard (in a relationship with Jack) tried flirting with Steve, the latter good naturedly pointed out that he knew he preferred the ladies.

 

I think so long as the companion is aware of your preference so you don't inadvertently give them the come on when you don't mean to, then that is better, but failing that I'll settle for just watching what I say.

I guess I'm more scared than feel awkward if some of my companions will tell their feelings towards my PC. I'm always extra careful with LIs that I'm not going to romance because there were some occasions in ME when I intended to be friendly but Shepard started to flirt and I didn't want her to do that because I was a little bit scared that my current romance will fail if I accidentaly flirt with others. If I remember it right it's possible to fail in Fenris romance if you flirt with others.

 

Once I get really scared when I had romanced Alistair and I had maximum friendship with Leliana. So Alistair become king and I become queen. I hadn't had any flirting with Leliana but she acted like we had been together and was very sorry that I will be marrying Alistair. I thought that I was accidentally romanced her but when I searched on the internet then I found out that she will act like she is with you if you have maximum friendship even if it wasn't the case.

[Mockingword]

For somebody with such "experience" you surely could act a little more civil

Remind me again, who was calling people jerks? I'm like 80% sure it wasn't me. Today.

 

Also, we know that Cullen is "innocent and kind-hearted" because of his light colours?

 

Hahahahahahahahaha. Wow.

[Hellion Rex]

Symbolism "nonsense? You sure you wrote that thesis? Cause that seems very uncharacteristic for a writer to say.

And you have the audacity to call him out on civility? A tad hypocritical, considering your own choice of words.

[Hellion Rex]

Remind me again, who was calling people jerks? I'm like 80% sure it wasn't me. Today.

*whispers* You actually did lol, but it was warranted.

[Chari]

Remind me again, who was calling people jerks? I'm like 80% sure it wasn't me. Today.

 

Also, we know that Cullen is "innocent and kind-hearted" because of his light colours?

 

Hahahahahahahahaha. Wow.

Remind me who said that my cognitive abilities were weak since according to your opinion I could not comprehend how logic works?

Oh, yeah, it was you :3

You probably should reread my post since I said it helped to highlight his personality as an additional effect. Imagine Morrigan having Lelianna's appearance? There is a reason why the witch looks like a witch, ya know

 

And you have the audacity to call him out on civility? A tad hypocritical, considering your own choice of words.

 

Well, I simply respond to his rude and angry behaviour, all fair

[Mockingword]

I'm not angry, I'm actually exceedingly amused.

 

Like, for the first time in possibly ever, I am actually laughing out loud when I say that I am.

[Mockingword]

Imagine Morrigan having Lelianna's appearance? There is a reason why the witch looks like a witch, ya know

Is the reason lazy stereotyping?

[Zered]

I am willing to bet a pint of some good ale that this thread will go in flames soon.

[Divine Justinia V]

I can't even figure out why an argument is happening tbh

[Chari]

 

I'm not angry, I'm actually exceedingly amused.

 

Like, for the first time in possibly ever, I am actually laughing out loud when I say that I am.

Well, if you say so XD

 

Is the reason lazy stereotyping?

 

The reason is that due to the way our brain works, humans associate specific objects with specific objects. Though it strongly varies depending on the culture.

DA is made by a western company so plenty of things are obviously west-culture-based (plus thedas is based on Europe)

Using these associations is only logical

[AresKeith]

I can't even figure out why an argument is happening tbh

 

I can tell you why but not here lol

[Mockingword]

 

So I was right, and the answer was lazy stereotyping. Colours and symbols have meaning, but only your meaning. Leliana is nice because she looks nice, and Morrigan is bad because she looks bad.

 

What would you do, I wonder, if you ever came up against a work that actively challenged your perception of how imagery and symbolism denotes character?

[Abelas Forever!]

I would have wanted Morrigan to be a man so that I could have done the Dark Ritual with him.

[Bob from Accounting]

Is the reason lazy stereotyping?

 

That is not 'stereotyping' and it sure as hell isn't 'lazy.'

 

You need to drop this 'Everything you know is indoctrination by the evil Western media' nonsense. Yes, visuals carry meaning. Visuals carry a great deal of meaning, and have so long as visual mediums have been around. Which includes theater, so basically forever.

 

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever why audiences should reject that mutually understood meaning. And certainly not just to validate the complete irrelevant point that, *gasp*, it's a meaning that probably has at least some root in culture. It does not make a damn difference.

[JakeLeTDK]

 

The romance system and most of the love interests are still up in the air, so I thought we could use a dedicated speculation thread to discuss all things romance related. For example;

 

-Who do you think the love interests will be?

-Who do you want the love interests to be?

-What sort of love interests would you like to see in the future?

-What system do you think they'll use and what system do you want? (playersexual, bisexual, some vague combination, 2/2/2, other restrictions)

-How many love interests do you think there will be?

-NPC romances; Do you think we'll get them? Do you want them? How do you think they'd work?

 

Let's see
- Aside from the already confirmed Cass and Cullen, I'm thinking Sera, Scribe girl, and maybe Iron Bull or Solas

- I want Vivi and Grey Warden as LIs ) She's so beautiful and seems pretty interesting too. And I want the good old big strong manly man for my Fem Inquisitor. Though Vivi seems very unlikely now ( Damn it )

- I'm thinking 2/2/2, somewhat similar to ME 3. I don't really care what system they use, just hope that we don't have to be a kiss ass to romance someone, and they will actually count the different in characters personalities (eg: A "renegade" inquisitor won't be able to earn the love of a lawful good character ... etc)

- 6. 4 companions and 2 npcs.

- Yeah why not. I like developing relationship with Npcs that can't follow you into battle. There are a lot of potential in that.

[Chari]

 

So I was right, and the answer was lazy stereotyping. Colours and symbols have meaning, but only your meaning. Leliana is nice because she looks nice, and Morrigan is bad because she looks bad.

 

What would you do, I wonder, if you ever came up against a work that actively challenged your perception of how imagery and symbolism denotes character?

Oh my, nice manipulation of my words there. 

Quote me saying that colour scheme means everything, please? If you actually tried to understand what I was saying, then you would realize that I meant: generally colour scheme is one the methods used to highlight character's personality, role etc, to create a stronger effect on the reader/watcher/etc, to demonstrate the culture, the world etc. No more, no less. 

 

Well, I wouldn't snap and lose my temper Personal approaches are very different, but basic and common approach is way too ingrained into mentality and art to get rid of. 

[Mockingword]

That is not 'stereotyping' and it sure as hell isn't 'lazy.'

 

You need to drop this 'Everything you know is indoctrination by the evil Western media' nonsense. Yes, visuals carry meaning. Visuals carry a great deal of meaning, and have so long as visual mediums have been around. Which includes theater, so basically forever.

 

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever why audiences should reject that mutually understood meaning. And certainly not just to validate the complete irrelevant point that, *gasp*, it's a meaning that probably has at least some root in culture.

Wrong.

 

Visuals carry no meaning. Human beings placed meaning onto visuals when there never was any, and content creators used that to sometimes dangerous effect. Like when they coded villains as "sexual deviants" through the use of subtle visual cues, and as a result gave cinema goers the impression that homosexuality and flamboyancy were automatically linked to sociopathic behaviour.

 

There are very good reasons to reject that "mutual understanding", firstly, because it is factually wrong. The cowboy who wears the white hat isn't automatically the good guy.

 

Secondly, because it is dangerous and hurts people in real life. It doesn't matter if these "mutually understood" meanings are rooted in culture. Wherever they came from, they aren't relevant any longer, and they should be discarded.