12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaen Mac Tir]

The thing is, I'm afraid that the intelligent, brave, powerfull and superior man in the party is suppossed to be the PC and I don't know how some guys would react to such a powerfull male character... 

 

So, what are you saying, is basically that female PC (which is also powerful, intelligent, strong, brave and superior) wouldn't mind all the powerful and bossy women around her? Why is that? Why should Bioware care more fore the feelings of male players than those of female players? Isn't it... you know... a bit ignorant?

For all i know, it's always been the majority of females in Bioware games appear to be strong peronalities, and the guys appeared to be mild, kind, funny or broody. Though I would prefer it ti be vice versa, I don't tunderstand why don't they make some characters like this and some like that approximately equal? Maybe I'm asking too much but this attitude from game to game is bothering me...

[LiaraShepard]

 I can agree with this, even if so far I've liked a lot the male LI's personalities (Anders a littles less, but still liked him). The thing is, I'm afraid that the intelligent, brave, powerfull and superior man in the party is suppossed to be the PC and I don't know how some guys would react to such a powerfull male character... 

 

Unfortunately, this is true and this might be one of the reasons why the devs don't create powerful guys. But I think experiencing the same kind of romance options over and over again gets boring after a while. It would be a great experience for male gamers as well, to finally have a male companion who's as sovereign as the main hero. They'd just try out and make a real job of it.

[LiaraShepard]

So, what are you saying, is basically that female PC (which is also powerful, intelligent, strong, brave and superior) wouldn't mind all the powerful and bossy women around her? Why is that? Why should Bioware care more fore the feelings of male players than those of female players? Isn't it... you know... a bit ignorant?

For all i know, it's always been the majority of females in Bioware games appear to be strong peronalities, and the guys appeared to be mild, kind, funny or broody. Though I would prefer it ti be vice versa, I don't tunderstand why don't they make some characters like this and some like that approximately equal? Maybe I'm asking too much but this attitude from game to game is bothering me...

 

I think they do this, because most gamers are male and straight, so it's a servcie for the male audience (and many of the developers from Bioware are male as well, so they might also prefer to develop strong and powerful females).

 

It's a pity....

[Barquiel]

I don't know, all of this seem waayy too much, from the bit we know.
Besides, if she's like that then it would be even more interesting if she was a romance. Defrosting an ice queen is a trope i quite like (when it's not about straight girls).

I usually enjoy the trope too...but I didn't really like Bioware's last "defrosting an ice queen" romances (especially Miranda almost switched her personality after your first mission with her in ME2, from cold ice queen to slightly arrogant but friendly XO who tells you her life story). I guess that's why I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to a possible Vivienne romance.

[ReallyRue]

So, what are you saying, is basically that female PC (which is also powerful, intelligent, strong, brave and superior) wouldn't mind all the powerful and bossy women around her? Why is that? Why should Bioware care more fore the feelings of male players than those of female players? Isn't it... you know... a bit ignorant?

For all i know, it's always been the majority of females in Bioware games appear to be strong peronalities, and the guys appeared to be mild, kind, funny or broody. Though I would prefer it ti be vice versa, I don't tunderstand why don't they make some characters like this and some like that approximately equal? Maybe I'm asking too much but this attitude from game to game is bothering me...

It could be some kind of male ego thing. Some players already get worked up at the thought of characters disagreeing with them, perhaps it would be more aggravating for male gamers coming from a male character with a personality like Morrigan's since they'd have some 'alpha male' thing going on.

 

I'd like it to be more balanced though. I was frustrated that I couldn't have a truly ruthless character with an LI to match unless I played a male. Zevran was a hell of a lot closer to it than Alistair/Leliana, but he had plenty of moral issues he balked at (mostly involving elves) and rarely encouraged ruthless behaviour in the Warden.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

I mean, come on - we already have Viv and Cassandra as the "ice queen" type or a strong personality, what are the chances that Sera and Scribbles would be sweet and nice AND LIs at the same time? Because, you know, I don't really have an option here. Again, if I would want a "strong personality" or a bossy, arrogant "ice king" type of male, who do I turn to? Probably no one.

That's my whole point.

I'd like it to be more balanced though. I was frustrated that I couldn't have a truly ruthless character with an LI to match unless I played a male. 

 

It's true. Zev's great, and I really love him, but it's still not even close to Morrigan, Cassandra, or Vivienne. He and Isabela are somewhat similar in their attitude, but Zevran is still more "chivalrous" to me, he has moral principles and basically doesn't want to control anything, or the Warden.

It would be nice to see a male character or male LI in one of DA games who would be really manipulative, controlling and a true "ice king". We'll see if we get one in the coming days.

P.S.: The type I am describing is possibly Loghain (from the Stolen Throne) or Gaspard (from the Masked Empire), but it's still not quite the personality type I mean...

[Sylvianus]

 I can agree with this, even if so far I've liked a lot the male LI's personalities (Anders a littles less, but still liked him). The thing is, I'm afraid that the intelligent, brave, powerfull and superior man in the party is suppossed to be the PC and I don't know how some guys would react to such a powerfull male character... 

 

There would be guys who'd love that... There would be guys who'd hate that, the same various reactions for any strong female character....

 

 Not sure why you are involving the gender in the matter when it's just about tastes for anyone, regardless of his gender. 

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Not sure why you are involving the gender in the matter when it's just about tastes for anyone, regardless of his gender. 

 

Maybe we're overreacting, tho. Maybe I'll finally get the type of male companion of my dreams in DAI. Here's hoping it will be true

[Sylvianus]

And since I've seen many female gamers complaining about Ashley , Miranda, and Morrigan, that challenged them, should I imply that the female ego has something to do with it ? 

 

Seriously, this discussion is ridiculous and baseless.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I mean, come on - we already have Viv and Cassandra as the "ice queen" type or a strong personality, what are the chances that Sera and Scribbles would be sweet and nice AND LIs at the same time? Because, you know, I don't really have an option here. Again, if I would want a "strong personality" or a bossy, arrogant "ice king" type of male, who do I turn to? Probably no one.

So wait, you do or don't think Sera and Scribble will be sweet and nice and LIs at the same time?

[WildOrchid]

I usually enjoy the trope too...but I didn't really like Bioware's last "defrosting an ice queen" romances (especially Miranda almost switched her personality after your first mission with her in ME2, from cold ice queen to slightly arrogant but friendly XO who tells you her life story). I guess that's why I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to a possible Vivienne romance.

 

Yeah, maybe this time they will do it better? I don't know, i think it would be interesting to see.

But honestly, a 'defrosting ice queen' type for ladies is something i really want to see. This trope has been available only for male protagonists so far.

[Ianamus]

People seem to be forgetting that Sten simply attacks you at the beginning of the Sacred Ashes quest because does not agree with what you are doing.

 

I don't see how you get from "There are no 'alpha male' bad boy LI's" to "All male companions in Bioware games are meek and complacent so as to not hurt the ego of those straight male games". Not only is that completely wrong but It's also kind of sexist. 

[LiaraShepard]

And since I've seen many female gamers complaining about Ashley , Miranda, and Morrigan, that challenged them, should I imply that the female ego has something to do with it ? 

 

Seriously, this discussion is ridiculous and baseless.

 

well, you can't deny, that Bioware tends to create manipulative, strong, powerful females. I think one reason is, most of the devs are males themselves but I also think most gamers are male and straight and like the imagination of "taming" a strong female. Sorry, if my words aren't best chosen. I don't think this discussion is ridiculous because there are many hints. Just think of the companions in Bioware games, and you will see, they are always based on the same elements.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

So wait, you do or don't think Sera and Scribble will be sweet and nice and LIs at the same time?

 

I really hope they will be, but I fear that my hope is vague. That's what I meant, basically.

 Just think of the companions in Bioware games, and you will see, they are always based on the same elements.

 

This. And the only male LI I can think of, that doesn't fit this scheme, is Atton from Kotor 2 - and it's not of Bioware. Shame.

People seem to be forgetting that Sten simply attacks you at the beginning of the Sacred Ashes quest because does not agree with what you are doing.

 

And yet I can't consider it a thing because it happens only once and only when you bring him with you. He can disagree, but I hardly see him as the "bossy, power-hungry, manipulative" kind of person.

[javeart]

So, what are you saying, is basically that female PC (which is also powerful, intelligent, strong, brave and superior) wouldn't mind all the powerful and bossy women around her? Why is that? Why should Bioware care more fore the feelings of male players than those of female players? Isn't it... you know... a bit ignorant?

For all i know, it's always been the majority of females in Bioware games appear to be strong peronalities, and the guys appeared to be mild, kind, funny or broody. Though I would prefer it ti be vice versa, I don't tunderstand why don't they make some characters like this and some like that approximately equal? Maybe I'm asking too much but this attitude from game to game is bothering me...

 I think what I'm saying is not so much that they care less for women feelings that they might use a structure that would go something like : supers cool male heroe + super cool girlfriend + a little less cool male companion born to be the hero's bro... An that little less cool male companion ends up being the male LI for the female PC... Maybe not so much in DA, but I got this feeling very clear from ME, you know, like female companions are more there to be wanted as LI by male players than to be wanted as friends by female players, and the opposite with male companions

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I really hope they will be, but I fear that my hope is vague. That's what I meant, basically.

If Vivienne takes the slot from one of them, I'll be really sad. 

[Milan92]

I was wondering. How do people feel about the idea of LI dating each other - like Isabela and Fenris did? Not just "no strings attached" but a real relationship this time depending on the characters.

 

Provided you didn't romance those certain people.

[Cobra's_back]

well, you can't deny, that Bioware tends to create manipulative, strong, powerful females. I think one reason is, most of the devs are males themselves but I also think most gamers are male and straight and like the imagination of "taming" a strong female. Sorry, if my words aren't best chosen. I don't think this discussion is ridiculous because there are many hints. Just think of the companions in Bioware games, and you will see, they are always based on the same elements.

 

I think I see what you are saying. They type cast the strong female as "manipulative". This is sad because many strong women are not manipulative and are "straight up". Men do not tame strong women. This is nonsense. I would seriously kick someone's butt if they thought they could tame me.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I was wondering. How do people feel about the idea of LI dating each other - like Isabela and Fenris did? Not just "no strings attached" but a real relationship this time depending on the characters.

 

Provided you didn't romance those certain people.

I prefer they did not. I always felt weird romancing Tali or Garrus after realizing they get together if you don't. I felt like I was breaking up a relationship.

 

If companions get together, I hope they are the non-LI ones so it always happens. 

[javeart]

There would be guys who'd love that... There would be guys who'd hate that, the same various reactions for any strong female character....

 

 Not sure why you are involving the gender in the matter when it's just about tastes for anyone, regardless of his gender. 

 

I'm sure there would lot of male players who wouldn't mind (that's why I said that I think some wouldn't like it) and I'd say that there's probably a lot of girls who wouldn't like to be outshined by characters like Morrigan or Miranda, but the truth it's that I haven't seen many hints of this in the forum (maybe I don't spend enough time here, could be). And of course, I could be wrong... But when there's a pattern, it usually is for a reason, and my hypothesis is thi

[Ianamus]

 

well, you can't deny, that Bioware tends to create manipulative, strong, powerful females. I think one reason is, most of the devs are males themselves but I also think most gamers are male and straight and like the imagination of "taming" a strong female. Sorry, if my words aren't best chosen. I don't think this discussion is ridiculous because there are many hints. Just think of the companions in Bioware games, and you will see, they are always based on the same elements.

 

Companions are characters that you take into combat with you. We're not going to have a clumsy, book dumb milkmaid who can't lift a sword as a companion. 

[LiaraShepard]

 I think what I'm saying is not so much that they care less for women feelings that they might use a structure that would go something like : supers cool male heroe + super cool girlfriend + a little less cool male companion born to be the hero's bro... An that little less cool male companion ends up being the male LI for the female PC... Maybe not so much in DA, but I got this feeling very clear from ME, you know, like female companions are more there to be wanted as LI by male players than to be wanted as friends by female players, and the opposite with male companions

 

It's so right what you say, I always got the same impression. 

[Sylvianus]

 

 

well, you can't deny, that Bioware tends to create manipulative, strong, powerful females. I think one reason is, most of the devs are males themselves but I also think most gamers are male and straight and like the imagination of "taming" a strong female. Sorry, if my words aren't best chosen. I don't think this discussion is ridiculous because there are many hints. Just think of the companions in Bioware games, and you will see, they are always based on the same elements.

 

I've been on the mass effect board, and dragon age board, and if there's something I understood, it's we shouldn't generalize what a gender like or not.

 

Many people despise Morrigan, Miranda or ashley, and prefer women like Merril or Leliana or Liara and Tali. They like female LIs that are kind to them and not necessarily strong.

 

You have various tastes, various reactions to the archetype.The same for women. Not every female gamer will like the bad boy archetype or something else. 

 

What you assumed was Bioware's thoughts wasn't what bothered but the " men don't like strong male characters that challenge them or it is because of their ego. etc etc. "

 

I don't know where this assumption comes from but it feels so wrong. 

[Barquiel]

Yeah, maybe this time they will do it better? I don't know, i think it would be interesting to see.

But honestly, a 'defrosting ice queen' type for ladies is something i really want to see. This trope has been available only for male protagonists so far.

 

I agree. If she's well written...

Well, we had Silk Fox in JE. I liked her (my favorite LI in the game).

[LiaraShepard]

 

 

 

Companions are characters that you take into combat with you. We're not going to have a clumsy, book dumb milkmaid who can't lift a sword as a companion. 

 

 But lifting a sword is not the same as being superior with swords AND with words and behavior....