12496 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaen Mac Tir]

so.. bisexuality is just a fan service?

 

Missing the point here... Not just ANY bisexuality is necessarily fanservice. My opinion is that it was actually fanservice when it wasn't carefully worked-out among some characters and obviously done to please all the players in spite of characters' personalities.

I mean I don't think that Isabela's bisexuality was bad, it fit her personality and all, and maybe it was the only case in the game that was not bothering me. But she is the only one who's orientation was not just to please the players, but was a part of her entire lore and character.

Aveline's situation is showing, really. I would want more situations in the game like hers. When a player tries to hit on some one and gets turned down due to their gender/origin/race/personality. It would make things look more "complex" and "real-like", when in real life you don't ALWAYS get what you want, sometimes you need to try hard or realize that you are just not that person's type, or he/she is not single and in love with someone else. I found it also odd that no matter how much a person hates you in DA2, they will jump to bed with you no matter what.

Anyway it's just my opinion and I can understand why people may disagree.

[Divine Justinia V]

Missing the point here... Not just ANY bisexuality is necessarily fanservice. My opinion is that it was actually fanservice when it wasn't carefully worked-out among some characters and obviously done to please all the players in spite of characters' personalities.

I mean I don't think that Isabela's bisexuality was bad, it fit her personality and all, and maybe it was the only case in the game that was not bothering me. But she is the only one who's orientation was not just to please the players, but was a part of her entire lore and character.

 

so.. you think none of the other companions could have been bisexual because it didn't fit their personality?

what kind personality does a bisexual person have? I just don't understand that argument.

[Isaidlunch]

I feel like I'm the only one who liked that Fenris and Merrill barely (if ever) mentioned their sexuality. It was nice to have bisexual/whateversexual characters without it being such a big freaking deal.

[Allan Schumacher]

My opinion is that it was actually fanservice when it wasn't carefully worked-out among some characters and obviously done to please all the players in spite of characters' personalities.

 

This is a tricky thing, and it's something that I trip up on a lot still too.

 

For myself, LGBT content is "unusual content."  So I would say to myself, if we're going to put that sort of content in there, shouldn't we make sure that it's done in some sort of particularly interesting way (whatever that means...) so it's not just "thrown in there?"  But then, as I've gotten a bit more comfortable learning, is that this means I'm creating an extra gate that a bisexual (or even gay/lesbian) relationship has to pass.  It implicitly suggests, to me, that it's okay to make a heterosexual romanceable simply because you think it'd be an interesting romanceable character.  And we won't need much in the way of "heterosexual content" to make it seem like it's more than simply making someone romanceable.

 

In this sense, it's a bias because there is implicitly less constraints on adding a heterosexual romance to the game, because I don't need to create some sexuality specific reason for their inclusion in the game as a romance.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

so.. you think none of the other companions couldn have been bisexual because it didn't fit their personality?

 

They could have been, but it also COULD have been more merged with their story, like Isabela and Zevran and Leliana's have. It just seemed torn away from the whole plot for me, jumping out of nowhere.

I believe that's why Bioware are turning to "set sexualities" in DAI, realizing that the romances are an important part of the gameplay and it needs to be polished in order to make it look more "in the plot", than "fanservice". And I approve it.

For myself, LGBT content is "unusual content."

 

Guess it's not for me, a bisexual person myself. Maybe I just failed to word my opinion better, in that case, I'm sorry.

[DaySeeker]

Anders went out of his way to let you know he was a ladykiller in Awakenings.  He seemed pretty established as straight.  In DA2 he was a militant gay activist.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I feel like I'm the only one who liked that Fenris and Merrill barely (if ever) mentioned their sexuality. It was nice to have bisexual/whateversexual characters without it being such a big freaking deal.

You are not the only one.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ANders went out of his way to let you know he was a ladykiller in Awakenings.  He seemed pretty established as straight.  In DA2 he was a militant gay activist.  

In DA2, Anders was a militant activist for pretty much everything though.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Anders went out of his way to let you know he was a ladykiller in Awakenings.  He seemed pretty established as straight.  In DA2 he was a militant gay activist.  

He clearly wasn't gay. He talks about having group sex with Isabela. 

[Divine Justinia V]

I just.......

 

 

naaaaaaaa

[Allan Schumacher]

Guess it's not for me, a bisexual person myself. Maybe I just failed to word my opinion better, in that case, I'm sorry.

 

Not sure why you'd be sorry.  It's something that I need to work on, not you.

 

I'm just saying that it's easier for me to mentally include a romance that is heterosexual, without ensuring that there is specific content to address their heterosexuality, while my initial challenges with, for example, bisexual romances is that I feel that the character's bisexuality is something that should be explored because it's bisexual.

 

 

Not that I think this makes me feel like I'm a bad person.  I think it's also a part that "this type of content is less familiar for me, so there's a degree of personal interest in exploring it because that may be interesting for me."  However, for someone else, it may be unnecessary that a bisexual (or gay or lesbian) character have the details of their sexuality explored in order to "justify" making the character that particular orientation.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Am I the only person who is okay with the possibility a character you're trying to hit on could turn you down? Because I noticed that the majority of the players don't like that kind of option, when a romance may go sour or you can be dumped. But doesn't it make the whole thing more interesting?

[DaySeeker]

In DA2, Anders was a militant activist for pretty much everything though.

His man-on-man spirit action must have given him a new point of view.

[Allan Schumacher]

Anders went out of his way to let you know he was a ladykiller in Awakenings.  He seemed pretty established as straight.  In DA2 he was a militant gay activist.  

 

I am not sure I agree with this.  The idea that Anders, who can freely be in a relationship with a man or a woman in DA2, is a militant gay activist comes across as unnecessary and almost inflammatory.

 

Could you explain yourself a bit more, because I met a lot of women at PAX that really loved their Anders romance arcs through DA2.

[Darth Krytie]

Anders went out of his way to let you know he was a ladykiller in Awakenings.  He seemed pretty established as straight.  In DA2 he was a militant gay activist.  

 

I don't even know what to say about this. In Awakenings, Anders said almost everything in an attempt to deflect conversations from anything serious. As is very clear when he talks to Justice. In DA2, he's not just Anders, but Anders+Justice, more emotionally vulnerable and a lot more desperately sad and angry. He talks about being with Karl in one conversation, discusses how most men don't talk about it openly in one conversation, and from then on, it's typical romance content for him. There's nothing militant about Anders in regards to sexuality in DA2.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Am I the only person who is okay with the possibility a character you're trying to hit on could turn you down? Because I noticed that the majority of the players don't like that kind of option, when a romance may go sour or you can be dumped. But doesn't it make the whole thing more interesting?

 

Isabela chose the relic over me. I felt sufficiently rejected in DA2.

 

 

Zev and Isabella's bisexuality was mostly just sex.  Lelianna had a troubled past, and it made more sense that she was more wary of my female warden, not only was she bisexual, but a previous relationship effected her worldview.  Lelianna also seemed much more interested in bonding romantically, so complex(?)

 

The Substitution Game!

 

"Isabela had a troubled past, and it made more sense that she was more wary of my female Hawke, not only was she bisexual, but a previous relationship effected her worldview. Isabela also seemed much more interested in being a pirate then settling down romantically, so complex!"

 

The relationships in both games were well thought out/featured strong, fun, well written characters. Even though I can make those parallels above Leliana and Isabela are obviously far from being the same character. The only difference between the two games approaches is that every single person who played the game had the same amount of well thought out and memorable choices open to them in DA2.

[DaySeeker]

Not sure why you'd be sorry.  It's something that I need to work on, not you.

 

I'm just saying that it's easier for me to mentally include a romance that is heterosexual, without ensuring that there is specific content to address their heterosexuality, while my initial challenges with, for example, bisexual romances is that I feel that the character's bisexuality is something that should be explored because it's bisexual.

 

 

Not that I think this makes me feel like I'm a bad person.  I think it's also a part that "this type of content is less familiar for me, so there's a degree of personal interest in exploring it because that may be interesting for me."  However, for someone else, it may be unnecessary that a bisexual (or gay or lesbian) character have the details of their sexuality explored in order to "justify" making the character that particular orientation.

 

I believe your last statement is true.  It would seem establishing a character is gay early on would be pretty easy, and most characters are assumed to be straight, showing bisexuality would be a challenge to seamlessly integrate.  Not to offend anyone, but even in real life bisexual visibility is low and possibly glossed over by observers (many gays assume it's a phase, and coming out to straights can be complicated). 

[Tommy6860]

 

The only thing I've made my mind on is that I already don't like the romance system because imho Dragon Age 2 handled it much better.

 

OK, this is something in which I somewhat disagree. The romance dialogue between prospective LIs in DA2 made the romance very basic. There was really nothing much to get to know about them since it was contrived and forced by the gameplay and how many quests were completed; it lacked spontaneity. I actually thought the gifting was worse, since it was plot specific. In DA:O, you found the gifts randomly and it was random to where you went in the quest-line. Sometimes you'd find the gifts and when presented, it had lesser meaning if no convo previously happened regarding said gift. There was way more diversity to the plot LI in DA:O than was in DA2.  Also having to make the PC have to go to their place of preference to have personal discussion was jarring in DA2 and could not be revisited; it felt impersonal to me, but I admit, that is me. I got the feeling that people cannot talk in a private setting anywhere they are, which we all know is not an impossibility.

 

My main complaint about DA:O was, the dialogue allowed for a fast romance to develop.

[DaySeeker]

I am not sure I agree with this.  The idea that Anders, who can freely be in a relationship with a man or a woman in DA2, is a militant gay activist comes across as unnecessary and almost inflammatory.

 

Could you explain yourself a bit more, because I met a lot of women at PAX that really loved their Anders romance arcs through DA2.

It's the word order, he came out hard- flirting with my gay warden and grieving over a gay lover.  And he was a militant (mage) activist.

 

I did not get close to romancing him when I played as female, so I don't know what that looked like.

[stuffystuffs]

Am I the only person who is okay with the possibility a character you're trying to hit on could turn you down? Because I noticed that the majority of the players don't like that kind of option, when a romance may go sour or you can be dumped. But doesn't it make the whole thing more interesting?

 

You mean like Aveline?

 

I don't think most here are opposed to what you say here.  I wouldn't mind if a romance goes bad b/c you do something the other doesn't agree with.

 

What myself and some others don't like is not even having the chance to pursue a romance path based on your gender choice before the game even starts.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Isabela chose the Qun over me. I felt sufficiently rejected in DA2.

 

It doesn't refer to the romance, it refers to betrayal and she does so even when there is no romance with her.

I was referring to sutiations more like Aveline's, really.

What myself and some others don't like is not even having the chance to pursue a romance path based on your gender choice before the game even starts.

 

But why is that bad? There are you choices thoughout the game, yes. And your LI could dump you if he/she sees you as his/her enemy. But can't characters also turn you down because of other reasons? I mean, they could think you're ugly, or not their type, or they are straight/gay, or they don't like your horns (haha), or even are in love with someone else. It happens all the time in real life and it seems odd that so many people can't accept this.

It's like "I want this character no matter what!" and such an attitude seems wrong to me. Like, if you are gay and meet a nice person, who you are trying to hit on, and they say to you "sorry mate I'm straight", do you think it's lame? There's nothing wrong with it really.

[Tommy6860]

Not sure why you'd be sorry.  It's something that I need to work on, not you.

 

I'm just saying that it's easier for me to mentally include a romance that is heterosexual, without ensuring that there is specific content to address their heterosexuality, while my initial challenges with, for example, bisexual romances is that I feel that the character's bisexuality is something that should be explored because it's bisexual.

 

 

Not that I think this makes me feel like I'm a bad person.  I think it's also a part that "this type of content is less familiar for me, so there's a degree of personal interest in exploring it because that may be interesting for me."  However, for someone else, it may be unnecessary that a bisexual (or gay or lesbian) character have the details of their sexuality explored in order to "justify" making the character that particular orientation.

 

Hmm, maybe a diversity of writers (or even just ideas) from those who have different sexual orientations is needed, along with collaboration in the writing? Perspective is a wonderful thing.

[Divine Justinia V]

OK, this is something in which I somewhat disagree. The romance dialogue between prospective LIs in DA2 made the romance very basic. There was really nothing much to get to know about them since it was contrived and forced by the gameplay and how many quests were completed; it lacked spontaneity. I actually thought the gifting was worse, since it was plot specific. In DA:O, you found the gifts randomly and it was random to where you went in the quest-line. Sometimes you'd find the gifts and when presented, it had lesser meaning if no convo previously happened regarding said gift. There was way more diversity to the plot LI in DA:O than was in DA2.  Also having to make the PC have to go to their place of preference to have personal discussion was jarring in DA2 and could not be revisited; it felt impersonal to me, but I admit, that is me. I got the feeling that people cannot talk in a private setting anywhere they are, which we all know is not an impossibility.

 

My main complaint about DA:O was, the dialogue allowed for a fast romance to develop.

 

I just mean the availability regardless of gender lol.

[Ryzaki]

I feel like I'm the only one who liked that Fenris and Merrill barely (if ever) mentioned their sexuality. It was nice to have bisexual/whateversexual characters without it being such a big freaking deal.

 

Nope I did too.

[Divine Justinia V]

Nope I did too.

 

same