12496 réponses à ce sujet

[oceanicsurvivor]

Maybe, but why are you denying the characters to be of a set sexuality like yourself? They are not dolls to be romanced, they are people (or at least the devs try to make them that way).

Moreover, if some context varies or is closed to a specific character, it does contribute to the insterest of the game and makes second and third re-plays more alluring, imho.

 

I don't see how they are any more or less 'dolls to be romanced' if they are bi, straight or gay.

 

I certainly do want to see characters with my sexuality more represented in Dragon Age, but I don't see why I need to choose between representation and romances choices. More then just the four to six people the PC can romance have sexualities.

[Shaen Mac Tir]

I think that notion that having a sexuality that allows for both m an f pcs to romance a character makes them dolls is strange given then fact that there's very few times when the actions or race or appearance of a character has little to know influence. You can spend DA 2 killing all the mages and Anders will still romance you until you reach his crisis point in Act 3. Before then, it has no affect on whether or not you can be with him. Isn't that more odd than if he only would romance you if you were female? To me, it's far more jarring than having him be bi could ever be.

 

I already told that I consider DA2 romances to be flawed - straight or not. I also think that romancing a character which obviously diasgrees with you and almost hates you (or should hate) is weird, but nevertheless I liked DA2 romances. It's just that they could be a bit more thought-out.

I don't see how they are any more or less 'dolls to be romanced' if they are bi, straight or gay.

 

That's my whole point here. Characters may be bi, straight, gay or asexual, and there's nothing you can do with that. If you chose to play a gay male, don't be frustrated if straight characters won't engage in a romantic relationship with you. And vice versa, and so on.

On the other hand, when ALL romanceable characters are bi, for the sake of the player who doesn't want to change their favourite PC, I consider it to be pure "fanservice".

[Maria Caliban]

The thing about anders, i can't talk on behalf on anyone else but at least for me it felt "weird, almost off-putting" not that he tried to hit on Hawke(male or female), but that he did so right after his lover died. story wise  It could be a few days, weeks even, but in gameplay terms this literally happened in the next 5 minutes. my reaction as a player was "dude, thank you for the compliment but i don't swing that way, more importantly... Karl's not even cold!, don't you need some time to sort things out first?"
 
In me3 i liked the segments with cortez, becoming a friend first, help him sort out his feelings after his husband's death and only after a while decide if he's ready to move on as a good friend or a potential LI.

Anders hit on my female PC and it was awkward and off-putting.

That was the intention. Anders is in an emotionally off place and he's reaching out to the first person he perceives as kind and caring. That's not incredibly healthy and it's one of the first signs you get that he's not doing well.

I didn't like Anders, but I thought he was a well done character.

[DaySeeker]

The thing about anders, i can't talk on behalf on anyone else but at least for me it felt "weird, almost off-putting" not that he tried to hit on Hawke(male or female), but that he did so right after his lover died. story wise  It could be a few days, weeks even, but in gameplay terms this literally happened in the next 5 minutes. my reaction as a player was "dude, thank you for the compliment but i don't swing that way, more importantly... Karl's not even cold!, don't you need some time to sort things out first?"

 

In me3 i liked the segments with cortez, becoming a friend first, help him sort out his feelings after his husband's death and only after a while decide if he's ready to move on as a good friend or a potential LI.

 

I didn't get the feeling that they had just broken up.  I thought they had once been lovers and were still close.

 

I also don't get the "multiple replays" argument. You can already only complete one romance per playthrough. If I wanted to romance multiple characters, I was always going to have to play again. Gender gating has nothing to do with it.

 

Personally, I'm never going to play a female character. It doesn't interest me at all. Having multiple LIs available for m/m romances will encourage me to play again, since I can only pick one per play through. Having only one companion LI available for m/m romances is basically the least likely method for the romance system to encourage me to play a second time.      

 

For me at least, I will playthough multiple times, not only for a romance, but because I want to try playing as a different warden with different motives and perspective.  As such, if I romance someone it may be a different choice than my first playthrough.

[oceanicsurvivor]

 

That's my whole point here. Characters may be bi, straight, gay or asexual, and there's nothing you can do with that. If you chose to play a gay male, don't be frustrated if straight characters won't engage in a romantic relationship with you. And vice versa, and so on.

I don't see how their sexuality made them more or less a 'plaything' which was essentially what you implied with dolls. I don't see how that changes if they are gay/straight/bi, so why are there largely arbitrary (within the context of the world) divides on which "doll I can play with" as you called it.

 

Ok we need a new analogy, b/c the doll thing feels icky and objectifying.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

For me at least, I will playthough multiple times, not only for a romance, but because I want to try playing as a different warden with different motives and perspective.  As such, if I romance someone it may be a different choice than my first playthrough.

Sure, that's understandable. What I'm saying is, if there are 2 LIs available to your gender, you're going to have to play 2 times to romance both. If there are 2 LIs and they're both available to only 1 gender, you're still going to have to play 2 times to romance both. Gender gating doesn't make it more necessary for you to play again to romance multiple characters. 

[Maria Caliban]

I strongly disagree with the notion that a feature is good or not because it encourages multiple playthroughs.

If a person it inclined to replay the game, they'll do so. If they're not, then they won't.

I've played DA:O once and only have one complete playthrough of DA II. I replayed ME when I got a new computer because the first time I played it, I had it set on minimum graphics and it still only ran at ~10 FPS. I've never replayed ME 2 or ME 3.

Making Cassandra straight will not get me to replay the game. It will get me to watch her romance on Youtube.

[Tommy6860]

Anders hit on my female PC and it was awkward and off-putting.

That was the intention. Anders is in an emotionally off place and he's reaching out to the first person he perceives as kind and caring. It's one of the first signs you get that he's not doing well.

I didn't like Anders, but I thought he was a well done character.

 

 

I'll admit I didn't see Anders (or maybe any LI in DA2) as you do, but that speaks more of a diversity of minds than it does the intention of it being off-putting from an adversarial perspective. Perhaps it was intentional, but having played Anders a bit in DAA, I did not get that. In that respect, his personality felt jarring in DA2. His SO did not matter to me, as his advances regardless of SO were offered as a choice in DA2, so the excuse he was forced on the PC is not valid as some detractors hated on him..

[Sylvianus]

Making Cassandra straight will not get me to replay the game. It will get me to watch her romance on Youtube.

 

To each their own. If Vivienne is an Li and is gay, that will certainly get me to replay the game with a female character, I could even begin with a female character for the first time. 

[Shaen Mac Tir]

I don't see how their sexuality made them more or less a 'plaything' which was essentially what you implied with dolls.

 

It doesn't. Lack of diversity does. I want to see more different characters like in real life we have bi, straigh, gay, asexual persons.

What I meant with a "doll to play with" referred to a character due to his/her obedience to every choice a player wishes to make. In DA2, if a person hates you or if it loves you, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what actions you have taken. It doesn't matter what SO they have. They are always ready for the player to be romanced. It is, actually, tastes like objectifying to me, and I'm against it. Characters and LIs should have more variety and personality, they should be able to make their own choices, and not only comply to the choices of the player.

[Divine Justinia V]

Making Cassandra straight will not get me to replay the game. It will get me to watch her romance on Youtube.

 

Same here. I just don't like playing as a man.

[Darth Krytie]

I strongly disagree with the notion that a feature is good or not because it encourages multiple playthroughs.

If a person it inclined to replay the game, they'll do so. If they're not, then they won't.

I've played DA:O once and only have one complete playthrough of DA II. I replayed ME when I got a new computer because the first time I played it, I had it set on minimum graphics and it still only ran at ~10 FPS. I've never replayed ME 2 or ME 3.

Making Cassandra straight will not get me to replay the game. It will get me to watch her romance on Youtube.

 

I have multiple playthroughs of ME 1-3, DAs, KOTOR, BGs, but I still agree with this sentiment...there are so many people that never even finish a game once...more than people who do finish, irrc.

 

I like having new content when I replay, but I don't necessarily think content should be restricted purely to encourage a second playthrough.

[Ryzaki]

Same here. I just don't like playing as a man.

 

Yep I would ~love to play Garrusmance.

 

Not playing FemShep to do it.

[DaySeeker]

I don't see how their sexuality made them more or less a 'plaything' which was essentially what you implied with dolls. I don't see how that changes if they are gay/straight/bi, so why are there largely arbitrary (within the context of the world) divides on which "doll I can play with" as you called it.

 

Ok we need a new analogy, b/c the doll thing feels icky and objectifying.

Then you are saying any choice a writer makes is arbitrary.  The only way it isn't arbitrary is if it thoughtfully designed which means someone besides the player has to decide.  

 

I'm not against having every character available to anyone, I just think it weakens the characters.  It's like saying you should be able o choose the race and gender of the NPC's.

[Darth Krytie]

Yep I would ~love to play Garrusmance.

 

Not playing FemShep to do it.

 

I'm actually sort of grateful about that. If he were bi, I'd probably never stop romancing him to romance other people.

[Ryzaki]

I'm actually sort of grateful about that. If he were bi, I'd probably never stop romancing him to romance other people.

 

LOL I probably wouldn't either XD

[Maria Caliban]

Not every character is available to you. There are four possible love interests in a city packed with people. In DA:O, there were three in all of Ferelden.

[Tommy6860]

Same here. I just don't like playing as a man.

 

I am a man and I do not like playing as a man in games if I have that choice; I play females nearly all of the time. The world is too male-centric as it is, I need a break from myself most of the time.

[Ryzaki]

I don't mind playing either gender unless I don't like the VA. And since I'm picky about female protagonist VAing I'm usually stuck with males

 

*prays for Natasha Little to voice FemQunari Inq BEGS*

[Shaen Mac Tir]

I am a man and I do not like playing as a man in games if I have that choice; I play females nearly all of the time. The world is too male-centric as it is, I need a break from myself most of the time.

 

I don't see a problem playing as a man or as a woman at all, and I can't see why people refure to play as a certain gender... it's a mystery to me...

Not every character is available to you. There are four possible love interests in a city packed with people. In DA:O, there were three in all of Ferelden. 

 

We were speaking of LIs mostly here, and that they should be able to have features that the player cannot affect or erase, which makes them considerably more life-like and deep as persons.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Then you are saying any choice a writer makes is arbitrary. 

 

No.

 

Race matters, class matters. Both in how you play the game and within the story. Outside of potential lineage issues with royalty, and the Qun, gender hasn't been a major issue in the series (thank god). The fact that we are making it such a big deal is an imposition of our values onto a society that hasn't actually expressed nearly the same level of interest/rigidness in terms of gender lines/roles (again, outside the Qun). So race and to some degree class requirements for LI's make a bit more sense to me ANNND 'increase replayability' since I get a MUCH different experience replaying the game as say, an elven archer as opposed to a Qunari Mage. The gender differences between these two characters are negligible, outside of the romance feature.

 

Anders and Fenris prolly wouldn't date a blood mage based on what their characters have said. However, if we had been able to choose race in DA2, nothing they said indicates a racial bias that I recall. And that limitation is much more interesting within the established context of the world then whether or not they would date a man or a woman.

[Divine Justinia V]

I don't see a problem playing as a man or as a woman at all, and I can't see why people refure to play as a certain gender... it's a mystery to me...

 

because I don't like it. there's no mystery. I can't see why people can't understand such a simple concept.

[Susty Randusky]

because I don't like it. there's no mystery. I can't see why people can't understand such a simple concept.

na na na chill

[Divine Justinia V]

na na na chill

 

na, na chill

[Shaen Mac Tir]

Funny thing, I remember DG mentioned that not all DA2 LIs were "bi". He mentioned that their SO varied depending on what character you are playing. The only "real" bi in the game is actually Isabela.