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I finally got around to creating a forever-alone jerkass Hawke that pretty much makes everyone his rival. It sure was rough. I could never do that with my "canon" Hawke.
D:
Even Fenris?
My douchecanoe warrior Hawke friended Fenris (naturally too while rivaling Anders XD)
You could either see it as an act of justice or of mercy.
I don't think that "cold-hearted, cynical and evil" Hawke should be either just or mercifull, though.
Anders can be useful as a pretty good healer and it's silly to get rid of him just because Sebastian demands it.
Hehehe so is mine. Evil FemQunari mage Necromancer is gonna see it burn.
Yeah Merrill's the only forced recruit that can die at the end. It's pretty weird you're forced to recruit her to begin with. I think Aveline's supposed to be able to leave Hawke but I've never been able to do it. Probably bugged.
Oh that will be amazing. I nvr unlocked the blood mage specialty in Origins...I couldn't ever bring myself to make that choice. I'm surprised by the Necromancy thing since we aren't visiting Nevarra...it will be interesting to see how Cass reacts to that though!
Aveline probably gets/needs more 'plot armor' then Merrill. Merrill isn't very involved in the goings on of the city really...(to the best of my knowledge at least)
Oh that will be amazing. I nvr unlocked the blood mage specialty in Origins...I couldn't ever bring myself to make that choice. I'm surprised by the Necromancy thing since we aren't visiting Nevarra...it will be interesting to see how Cass reacts to that though!
Aveline probably gets/needs more 'plot armor' then Merrill. Merrill isn't very involved in the goings on of the city really...(to the best of my knowledge at least)
Aveline can leave your party (I'm pretty sure the way it's scripted is that Aveline will only leave your party if you side with the Templars with her at low rivalry and Fenris stays with you).
The final confrontation ends with her refusing to fight you. She says that you saved her life, but the debt is now paid and she leaves.
Oh that will be amazing. I nvr unlocked the blood mage specialty in Origins...I couldn't ever bring myself to make that choice. I'm surprised by the Necromancy thing since we aren't visiting Nevarra...it will be interesting to see how Cass reacts to that though!
Aveline probably gets/needs more 'plot armor' then Merrill. Merrill isn't very involved in the goings on of the city really...(to the best of my knowledge at least)
You can get it by intimidating her into leaving. XD That's how I got it. She runs off with her tail between her legs. Oh man Cass' explosion should be glorious.
Yeah Merrill just stuck in the alienage most of the time. Aveline was dealing with the Arishok XD
Your character did betray him. You (talking about your character with this you not you you) went there after he asked you for help and you threw him under the bus. That was a betrayal. Even during Fenris rivalry you help him. You just disagree with how he goes about things. If you ever decide not to help him (particularly with Hadriana) after a while of you NOT helping Fenris will bounce. You can get him to leave that way if you don't want to complete act 2 first and didn't want to do it after recruiting him.
I like the fact that Fenris turned on me, I've never been a jerk with him, I just sort of ignored him...so of course when I sided with the mages Hawke and him were still kind of strangers, so it just made sense that he didn't trust Hawke, unlike Aveline who was a close friend of Hawke and thus trusted her to do the right thing.
It wasn't even an extreme situation, it was sort of just "sorry but you crossed my line, no hard feelings but I've got my convictions".
Your character did betray him.
Nobody argues that was a betrayal. It's completely evil.
XD lucky for me I'm a spoiler junkie or I would've missed Sten my first runthrough D: And Wrex...
Heh. I hope they're in pretty obvious spots. I don't mind knowing spoilers to find them but they should at least be easy to find for those who want to play blind
Fenris pretty much got me when he spoke. But I decided to romance Anders first. Got to that trainwreck of an ending (friendship mance this was I think) went rivalry, got THAT trainwreck of an ending romanced Fenris friendship or rivalry he's
For all of his bluster and grumpiness Fenris never actually hurts an innocent. He's obsessed with vengeance, but the only people he thinks that deserves death are slavers. He doesn't hate mages either, he grows to respect any mage Hawke and Bethany as well: he just thinks that mages are dangerous and that only a select few (PC or Bethany) are capable of freedom. His entire life has been shaped by his torture at the hands of mages.
Fenris holds these beliefs, but for the most part he doesn't really have that much of an agenda. Maybe it's because I always max out his rivalry, but he's just...so much of a better person than Anders. And even from the youtube's I've watched of him defecting: he doesn't defect because he thinks that mages deserve death, he does it because he thinks that a bunch of free mages are going to hurt people.
For all of his bluster and grumpiness Fenris never actually hurts an innocent.
Well he WAS going to slay his own sister. I don't believe that it's a just act.
Fenris is still a slave inside, he needs a master who tells him what to do. He struggles with it even to the point of pain and aggression, but it's what it is.
And if he really though that death is more preferable to being a slave, he wouldn't obey Hawke and get back to Danarius, he would just fight and die in battle.
Do we know how many romances there are gonna be?
As a guess I'm gonna say:
Cullen
Cassandra
Varric
Sera
If more, for the male, I'm going to guess that big blonde Rogue is a romance. Unless that's Cole, because any romance with Cole could end up feeling creepy. Or Iron Bull.
As for female? Vivienne maybe? But that makes all the female companions romances which I think is unlikely. Maybe the black lady at the other side of the table in that final shot of the table in between Sera and "Duncan".
I like the fact that Fenris turned on me, I've never been a jerk with him, I just sort of ignored him...so of course when I sided with the mages Hawke and him were still kind of strangers, so it just made sense that he didn't trust Hawke, unlike Aveline who was a close friend of Hawke and thus trusted her to do the right thing.
It wasn't even an extreme situation, it was sort of just "sorry but you crossed my line, no hard feelings but I've got my convictions".
Yeah I understand that. (I also got why Anders came back after my Hawke let him go during the templar ending).
Nobody argues that was a betrayal. It's completely evil.
I was just confused at you headcanoning him not betraying people...when that's exactly what you said he did.
For all of his bluster and grumpiness Fenris never actually hurts an innocent. He's obsessed with vengeance, but the only people he thinks that deserves death are slavers. He doesn't hate mages either, he grows to respect any mage Hawke and Bethany as well: he just thinks that mages are dangerous and that only a select few (PC or Bethany) are capable of freedom. His entire life has been shaped by his torture at the hands of mages.
Fenris holds these beliefs, but for the most part he doesn't really have that much of an agenda. Maybe it's because I always max out his rivalry, but he's just...so much of a better person than Anders. And even from the youtube's I've watched of him defecting: he doesn't defect because he thinks that mages deserve death, he does it because he thinks that a bunch of free mages are going to hurt people.
Yep.
Even if you rival him he's angry and prickly but over time he becomes a more relaxed easy going person. While Anders just gets more bitter and hostile. And even when Fenris explodes he's often quick to admit he was wrong and apologize.
As for his sister...she tried to have him re enslaved.
Friend or Rivalry I usually let him kill her. Only thing is I wish she had told him he fought for it before he gutted her.
As for Fenris not fighting to the death you pretty much crush his spirit when you hand him over to Danarius. He knows he can't take the man on his own (and doubtless Danarius has magics to hold him if need be) and Hawke pretty much validates the thought that he'll always be a slave and will never be free and that there's no escape from his fate. I hate the scene but it's very well done how he just slumps over and you can see the fight just leave him. 
As for his sister...she tried to have him re enslaved.
But does it give him the right to kill her? I don't think so.
As for Fenris not fighting to the death you pretty much crush his spirit when you hand him over to Danarius.
I know, but still he just gives up and accepts to be returned to slavery, and it points to his weakness. He was all brave and aggressive only when he had Hawke behind him to watch his back. When my Hawke made it clear that "you're on your own with this" Fenris gives up immediately. Unlike Anders, who does what he dows even if Hawke doesn't support him or even if Hawke kicks him out from the party.
Hawke pretty much validates the thought that he'll always be a slave and will never be free and that there's no escape from his fate
I believe Hawke didn't say anything like this. I remember his line was:
- Take him if you will.
Fenris: Hawke I need you help! Don't do this!
- You're on your own with this.
Fenris is still a slave inside, he needs a master who tells him what to do. He struggles with it even to the point of pain and aggression, but it's what it is.
This is why I always find the romance with him kind of... strange. Particularly if Hawke is a male mage. It's by far my favourite romance path in Dragon Age 2 but, well...
When Danarius calls Hawke his new Master and Fenris pulls that face my heart always sinks slightly.
Why should Anders have to admit that he's "wrong"? If he even is, which is totally not objective.
This is why I always find the romance with him kind of... strange. Particularly if Hawke is a male mage. It's by far my favourite romance path in Dragon Age 2 but, well...
I always thought the unfortunate implications were on purpose. Even if he doesn't romance Hawke he's with Isabela another very dominant personality. As he said about Ketojan "He wants to be lead" or something like that.
As he said about Ketojan "He wants to be lead" or something like that.
Precisely. He's no leader. Heck, he even doesn't know what to do with his life beyond getting away from Danarius. He needs a leader and Hawke fits that role very nicely. And when his leader abandons him, Fenris just gives up and go to another leader. He can't live on his own like a normal person, not unless his attitude and personality changes.
Precisely. He's no leader. Heck, he even doesn't know what to do with his life beyond getting away from Danarius. He needs a leader and Hawke fits that role very nicely. And when his leader abandons him, Fenris just gives up and go to another leader. He can't live on his own like a normal person, not unless his attitude and personality changes.
He has less chance of that after being mindwiped like a computer disk. If Hawke really can't stand him I don't see why Hawke drags him around. As for Danarius favor bleh. You've had Fenris following you around for ~5 years at this point. Hawke doesn't just abandon him (Fenris can recover from that much) you ditch him to Danarius (also Anders going "I see I wasn't the only one thinking this" is easily the most disgusting and hypocritical thing I've seen a BW character say.) in a moment he's most vulnerable. As for living on his own he can achieve that, he's been doing it before he met Hawke. Normal? No. Survival? Yeah Fenris can do that. He's not a baby that needs Hawke to hold his hand. Hawke decided to help him out so Fenris offers his services in exchange and Hawke agrees to the deal.
As for DAI romances I want Varric to be a bro 
But does it give him the right to kill her? I don't think so.
I know, but still he just gives up and accepts to be returned to slavery, and it points to his weakness.
I always thought the unfortunate implications were on purpose. Even if he doesn't romance Hawke he's with Isabela another very dominant personality. As he said about Ketojan "He wants to be lead" or something like that.
I'm sure that they are deliberate. It's part of why I think it was the best written of the romances.
But does it give him the right to kill her? I don't think so.
I know, but still he just gives up and accepts to be returned to slavery, and it points to his weakness. He was all brave and aggressive only when he had Hawke behind him to watch his back. When my Hawke made it clear that "you're on your own with this" Fenris gives up immediately. Unlike Anders, who does what he dows even if Hawke doesn't support him or even if Hawke kicks him out from the party.
I believe Hawke didn't say anything like this. I remember his line was:
- Take him if you will.
Fenris: Hawke I need you help! Don't do this!
- You're on your own with this.
Uh...yes yes it does.
Because he's had his spirit crushed!
Anders is never alone. Anders has Justice backing him up always. Anders only has the brass to start working for mage freedom once he has spirit help. Let's not act like he's some BA lone mage standing against the world please.
He asked you to help him before you even went into the tavern!
Wait. If someone tries to enslave you, you don't have a right to kill them, but if you don't fight them then you're weak?
No, his sister wasn't trying to enslave him, Danarius was.
And again (and again) I repeat that I do not justify Hawke abandoning Fenris in the moment of need. But I think that moment is quite showing and Fenris still has a mindset of a slave. Nothing more, nothing less.
Let's not act like he's some BA lone mage standing against the world please.
But he is, he and Justice can't even have a proper converstaion, they are merged together.
And if anders could find friends among the poor or mages, than it's showing that he is able to make alliances and not screw everything up.
No, his sister wasn't trying to enslave him, Danarius was.
And again (and again) I repeat that I do not justify Hawke abandoning Fenris in the moment of need. But I think that moment is quite showing and Fenris still has a mindset of a slave. Nothing more, nothing less.
His sister handed him over to Danarius on a silver platter. She was just as much trying to enslave him as Danarius was. To become a Magister at that. Her betrayal was worse. "I would've given you everything." and she showed herself to be just as bad as the mages who enslaved him.
Of course Fenris still has the mindset of a slave! That's not something you just get over. Especially not when dealing with the person who was your owner who for who knows how long.
I'm sure that they are deliberate. It's part of why I think it was the best written of the romances.
It is really good.
No, his sister wasn't trying to enslave him, Danarius was.
And again (and again) I repeat that I do not justify Hawke abandoning Fenris in the moment of need. But I think that moment is quite showing and Fenris still has a mindset of a slave. Nothing more, nothing less.
But he is, he and Justice can't even have a proper converstaion, they are merged together.
And if anders could find friends among the poor or mages, than it's showing that he is able to make alliances and not screw everything up.
yes she was
No Anders is well aware Justice is part of him now. He's not alone. He admits as such. Justice can hijack his body on rivalry. He doesn't realize it but it happens.
Yet he doesn't do anything whatsoever about mage freedom until he has Justice inside egging him on. So yeah..
I don't think you need to be evil to kill Anders.You could either see it as an act of justice or of mercy.
I always romance Anders and we always run away together. 
If I'm siding with the mages I keep him alive out of pragmatic need for another body on my side and for him to hopefully try and make up for what he has done but my natural urge is to kill him as an act of justice.
I sided with the mages, and killed him for three reasons: first, justice, second, punition for ruining my attempts at peace, third, protection against a mad murderer.
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