177 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

I did get the point. The point I'm making is that conventional means are a no-no in Harry Potter. If Voldemort was shot by a sniper, the franchise is now as dead as he is. Keep in mind that this is a story that's also geared toward children. You don't start them off with a magical setting, then have it resolved by anything other than magic. That just doesn't work.

[CrutchCricket]

A lot less toxic?

 

Ugh. Don't use that word.

 

It's just magical wish fulfillment. It's a bloody crime Harry and Hermione weren't together though. 

 

Pretty much. The books were entertaining when I was younger. I recently rewatched the movies and they were pretty fun as well. But you do have to suspend not just your disbelief but your critical thinking to enjoy them. Otherwise, deconstructing the Harry Potter world would make it a lot darker than Voldermort ever could and from a much more mundane perspective. In a nutshell, wizarding education prepares them for **** all and the magical economy makes no sense. Likely they couldn't even get minimum wage jobs in the real world.

 

And yeah if Muggles ever got wind of him he'd get Bin Laden'd within a week. Then some of those crafty agency types that don't exist and we'd rather not know about would hire a few wizards to make sure his horcruxes were destroyed after which it'd be open season on all magic users. The mutants in X-Men would seem like paragons of acceptance compared to the purges here.

[SwobyJ]

The muggles have a distinct advantage though, unlike wizards they have some kind of power without wands. Without wands most wizards are nothing. Wandless magic is extremely rare in the Harry Potter universe so rare that when Harry claims to have done it most people don't believe him. If the light worked with the muggles then it could have been battles with nothing but expelliarmus charms and gun fire. There is also the fact that if wizards don't see it coming then there is nothing that can defend them.

 

There are a lot of different reasons as to why Harry Potter is as big as it is. The reason I love it is because it has deep roots in my childhood. My mom would read the books every night and slowly taught me how to read while doing so. I know a lot of people have stories like this as well, but there are other reasons.

 

Yes there is a level of magical wish-fulfillment, but is it such a bad thing. Harry as a character is pretty damn plain, there's nothing completely spectacular about him. That allows readers young and old alike to get lost in that world by using Harry as a proxy. There's this page on Facebook called "the Common Room" they do this thing about Harry Potter confessions. When you those some of them can be kind of heartbreaking a lot of people found the series while going through a rough time. When you read about Harry who escaped life with an abusive family, who went from thinking he was nothing into being the greatest hero the wizarding world has ever seen it makes you happy. 

 

So I guess what I'm saying is the fanaticism and adoration that surrounds Harry Potter is a psychological thing and whether that's good or bad is up to you.

 

Last post on this before this makes me look like a Harry Potter fan (too late!, but I'm actually not), and this thread gets locked.

 

-Completely agreed about wands being the real power to most wizards. Now how do you propose disarming a wizard while a dementor sucks your soul? Or when they drink a potion on hand that makes them impervious to your bullets? (for example) Losing their wands is a distinct weakness... but how? And then what? And how can they not see muggles coming? I'm sure there would be situations where there might be the element of surprise, but with illegal magic, Death Eaters could know exactly what is coming their way and how to brutally respond to it.

Too many problems. When a Death Eater can ambush any muggle (unless they are charmed/warded by a wizard) and do anything they want to that muggle, it brings too many problems and rarely a solution.

However, there are signs at the end of the series that there might be a brighter future where muggles might learn about wizards, and they both might have a society where many are wizards and many are muggles but they're both cool with it. In some ways, that's what the fight with Voldemort represents.

 

-I understand the Harry Potter appeal. I mean myself - I lived with my aunt and uncle (now independent), who emotionally mistreated me (not nearly to Harry extent though, though I did have a very tiny bedroom for my last year there), and was thin and had 'Harry Potter' glasses back then (now contacts and fitter now lol), so I identified with him.

Too bad that in the last books he became so bratty to me that I lost half of my appeal for the series. I understand Rowling not wanting to outright Gary Stu him, but they made him too unlikable that my attention shifted more and more to video games and even specifically Mass Effect in 2008-2009

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Ugh. Don't use that word.

 

 

Pretty much. The books were entertaining when I was younger. I recently rewatched the movies and they were pretty fun as well. But you do have to suspend not just your disbelief but your critical thinking to enjoy them. Otherwise, deconstructing the Harry Potter world would make it a lot darker than Voldermort ever could and from a much more mundane perspective. In a nutshell, wizarding education prepares them for **** all and the magical economy makes no sense. Likely they couldn't even get minimum wage jobs in the real world.

 

And yeah if Muggles ever got wind of him he'd get Bin Laden'd within a week. Then some of those crafty agency types that don't exist and we'd rather not know about would hire a few wizards to make sure his horcruxes were destroyed after which it'd be open season on all magic users. The mutants in X-Men would seem like paragons of acceptance compared to the purges here.

 

Toxic forums, ahoy?

 

There's several pages on some sites about the Fridge Horror of the Harry Potter universe: Date Rape drugs are readily available on the commercial level, children aren't taught any kind of practical ability with Grammar, Mathematics, or Science, or, most importantly, Sex Education: That's a must. Otherwise, **** like the Weasley's happens. There are virtually no career options: You can work for the Ministry, work as an instructor, be a shopkeeper, or play Quidditch. That's the extent of job opportunities. Then there's the magical invasion of privacy. 

 

A bit cynical there. In reality, unless the mutants or wizards were overtly hostile, I really don't think there'd be a huge backlash against them. People are a lot more accepting than they are given credit for. The Religious Right (all nationalities) is the only large scale group of people who'd have problems with such situations.

[CrutchCricket]

A bit cynical there. In reality, unless the mutants or wizards were overtly hostile, I really don't think there'd be a huge backlash against them. People are a lot more accepting than they are given credit for. The Religious Right (all nationalities) is the only large scale group of people who'd have problems with such situations.

 

The issue is with what almost happened right under our noses. One person with powers we don't understand taking over the world. And on top of that a whole organized society again under our noses where seemingly every single member can potentially do the same thing. To say nothing of what their powers could do to our economy (i.e make it just as trivial)

 

You deny there are people in the government and military that would see that as a threat worthy of pre-emptive strikes?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The issue is with what almost happened right under our noses. One person with powers we don't understand taking over the world. And on top of that a whole organized society again under our noses where seemingly every single member can potentially do the same thing. To say nothing of what their powers could do to our economy (i.e make it just as trivial)

 

You deny there are people in the government and military that would see that as a threat worthy of pre-emptive strikes?

 

No. But I do deny that anyone would see that as legitimate means to operate in such a manner of making a preemptive strike if there's no cause for hostility. 

[Nightwriter]

Rofl it's not just brief surface level Harry Potter discussion derailment, it's like full-on in-depth ongoing lore premise analyses.

 

Who's bad. I'm bad.

 

[Mordokai]

HP magic is pretty low-powered compared to other universes. I'd put a Mage like Morrigan against an HP wizard anyday. As you say, a DnD mage would roflstomp an army of HP wizards.

 

Well, when one guy can make fire rain from the sky, conjure dragons, demons and other beasties and make the laws of physics sit down and cry(cookie for reference) and the other guy can make his wand glow in the dark, the former has kind of an unfair advantage.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rofl it's not just brief surface level Harry Potter discussion derailment, it's like full-on in-depth ongoing lore premise analyses.

 

Who's bad. I'm bad.

 

 

Beats the discussion that was going on before.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

It's a logic problem I'm talking about. You missed the point, but it's my fault since I didn't make it clear enough to begin with.

 

So much of the problems could have been solved if Harry and Hermione used their intelligence and experience and realized that the best way to fight Voldemort was with muggle weapons (I'd recommend a sniper/recondo team with an MLRS strike). The one thing for sure that muggles are far better at than the wizards can ever hope to be is killing. Voldy isn't going to see a sniper team. He isn't going to see or hear the rocket from the MLRS fired from 100 klicks off.

 

To be fair, it would something of an anticlimax if Dumbledor had simply brought Hagrid along with an sawed-off shotgun who then shot Voldemort in the face before anything could happen in the book 5 duel.

[TheTurtle]

Last post on this before this makes me look like a Harry Potter fan (too late!, but I'm actually not), and this thread gets locked.

 

-Completely agreed about wands being the real power to most wizards. Now how do you propose disarming a wizard while a dementor sucks your soul? Or when they drink a potion on hand that makes them impervious to your bullets? (for example) Losing their wands is a distinct weakness... but how? And then what? And how can they not see muggles coming? I'm sure there would be situations where there might be the element of surprise, but with illegal magic, Death Eaters could know exactly what is coming their way and how to brutally respond to it.

Too many problems. When a Death Eater can ambush any muggle (unless they are charmed/warded by a wizard) and do anything they want to that muggle, it brings too many problems and rarely a solution.

However, there are signs at the end of the series that there might be a brighter future where muggles might learn about wizards, and they both might have a society where many are wizards and many are muggles but they're both cool with it. In some ways, that's what the fight with Voldemort represents.

 

-I understand the Harry Potter appeal. I mean myself - I lived with my aunt and uncle (now independent), who emotionally mistreated me (not nearly to Harry extent though, though I did have a very tiny bedroom for my last year there), and was thin and had 'Harry Potter' glasses back then (now contacts and fitter now lol), so I identified with him.

Too bad that in the last books he became so bratty to me that I lost half of my appeal for the series. I understand Rowling not wanting to outright Gary Stu him, but they made him too unlikable that my attention shifted more and more to video games and even specifically Mass Effect in 2008-2009

I will give you the dementor thing, but it can be negated if we're talking about the light and muggles working together. Wizards can cast expecto patronum and defend muggles while take out death eaters. Going back to what I said in my last post purebloods and wizards in general are rather slow on the draw when it comes to muggle technology and weaponry. It would probably take awhile for wizards to catch on to what was going on and then when the do what are they supposed to do. Spells and potions from what I understand are rather difficult to create and a lot of potions take time to develop.

 

On the sneak attacks, if muggles are charmed and protected by other wizards they would be able to break Voldemort's defenses. Going by the major battles we saw in Deathly Hollows and Half Blood Prince, wizards duel face to face; so whats to stop muggles from flanking them while they're focused on dueling other wizards. The most important thing to remember is that we outnumber he wizards by a hell of a lot and Voldemort's support mostly comes from UK wizards. If other countries became aware of the threat there was no way they wouldn't send there support. The wizard along with muggles would have annihilated Voldemort's army easily.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

To be fair, it would something of an anticlimax if Dumbledor had simply brought Hagrid along with an sawed-off shotgun who then shot Voldemort in the face before anything could happen in the book 5 duel.

 

Not to me it wouldn't be. I can understand holding a certain level of disbelief in a fictional universe. That said, I prefer the practical, genre savvy solutions to problems. It solves your Voldemort problem fast. Why worry about whether some teenage kid has to go through an emotional journey to kill the biggest, baddest wizard when you can have Mr. Fudge ask for the UK PM for a platoon of SBS Snipers or Royal Marines to take care of him for you?

[CrutchCricket]

No. But I do deny that anyone would see that as legitimate means to operate in such a manner of making a preemptive strike if there's no cause for hostility. 

 

Uhm, what? I'm not talking about something like this being voted on in Congress, I'm talking about guys like Col. Stryker from X2 just getting the go-ahead in one of those conversations that never happen, only instead of some convoluted evil scheme in Bad Guy Lair #25, he just orders hit squads to go out and take down bitches.

 

We're talking about people that can insta-kill with pieces of wood, mind-control people, impersonate people perfectly down to the DNA, erase memories of their entire existence and also **** with time. Oh and all of these can be done by teenagers.There is no way in hell that people who are paid to eat three square meals of paranoia a day are just going to shrug and go "aww but they're so cute".

 

There's a reason they hide themselves from the muggles. Hell when Harry and Ron are getting lectured about almost exposing the magic world to muggles in book/movie 2 they should've gotten a lot more than just a slap on the wrist. A charge of exposure should be an insta-Azkaban.

 

To be fair, it would something of an anticlimax if Dumbledor had simply brought Hagrid along with an sawed-off shotgun who then shot Voldemort in the face before anything could happen in the book 5 duel.

 

Nah that'd be the best thing ever!

 

Hagrid: I'm surgical with this ******! Stick your head out!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Uhm, what? I'm not talking about something like this being voted on in Congress, I'm talking about guys like Col. Stryker from X2 just getting the go-ahead in one of those conversations that never happen, only instead of some convoluted evil scheme in Bad Guy Lair #25, he just orders hit squads to go out and take down bitches.

 

We're talking about people that can insta-kill with pieces of wood, mind-control people, impersonate people perfectly down to the DNA, erase memories of their entire existence and also **** with time. Oh and all of these can be done by teenagers.There is no way in hell that people who are paid to eat three square meals of paranoia a day are just going to shrug and go "aww but they're so cute".

 

There's a reason they hide themselves from the muggles. Hell when Harry and Ron are getting lectured about almost exposing the magic world to muggles in book/movie 2 they should've gotten a lot more than just a slap on the wrist. A charge of exposure should be an insta-Azkaban.

 

There aren't any Col. Stryker types as far as I'm aware of. I know who most of the senior officers are, they're generally not the kind of people who are judgmental like that. The vast majority (if not all of them) are reasonable authority figures who take their jobs seriously, but don't fall into spirals of paranoia and suspicion. The military and congress is a power game, but it's not the kind of game you see on House of Cards or whatever. The last guy who really was like that was J. Edgar Hoover, and his paranoia ostracized him from just about everybody else. I think you have a rather cynical view of politicians and the military in general if you believe they're all like that. Those conversations 'that never happen' really don't happen, not on those matters. I don't know anyone reasonable who is paid 3 squares a day of paranoia. I'll tell you that you're letting your imagination run wild on that thing. We take our jobs very seriously, but we aren't paranoid by any means. And if said people existed, we'd probably want to make sure they aren't getting some kind of reason from our own people to go nuts. There isn't going to be a cavalier approach to taking them down. And I don't think there should be. 

 

As for an Azkaban sentence, I'd say that two 12 year olds getting that is harsh... If that's what the wizards did, they'd be a pretty backwards society. Hell, Azkaban is already nuts enough as it is, what with it being the only known destination for anyone in the wizarding justice system: doesn't matter if you stole a banana or used an unforgivable curse, it's off to Azkaban with you.

[Farangbaa]

What in earth's name happened here?

[TheTurtle]

What in earth's name happened here?

Fun things. Very odd, but fun things

[CrutchCricket]

There aren't any Col. Stryker types as far as I'm aware of. I know who most of the senior officers are, they're generally not the kind of people who are judgmental like that. The vast majority (if not all of them) are reasonable authority figures who take their jobs seriously, but don't fall into spirals of paranoia and suspicion. The military and congress is a power game, but it's not the kind of game you see on House of Cards or whatever. The last guy who really was like that was J. Edgar Hoover, and his paranoia ostracized him from just about everybody else. I think you have a rather cynical view of politicians and the military in general if you believe they're all like that. Those conversations 'that never happen' really don't happen, not on those matters. I don't know anyone reasonable who is paid 3 squares a day of paranoia. I'll tell you that you're letting your imagination run wild on that thing. We take our jobs very seriously, but we aren't paranoid by any means. And if said people existed, we'd probably want to make sure they aren't getting some kind of reason from our own people to go nuts. There isn't going to be a cavalier approach to taking them down. And I don't think there should be. 

 

As for an Azkaban sentence, I'd say that two 12 year olds getting that is harsh... If that's what the wizards did, they'd be a pretty backwards society. Hell, Azkaban is already nuts enough as it is, what with it being the only known destination for anyone in the wizarding justice system: doesn't matter if you stole a banana or used an unforgivable curse, it's off to Azkaban with you.

 

I respect your real-world knowledge and experience. That being said I'm sticking to my beliefs. If there were such people and you knew of them, would you be allowed to talk about it on an unsecured internet forum? I think not. There is also the possibility that these things are above your pay grade. Under normal circumstances these things, these people and these plans would never even see the light of day. During times of relative peace what use is there for them? But when threats of this magnitude start to emerge there must be people who consider them and there must be people willing to act on them. It's not cynicism of politicians or the military that makes me say this. It's what I see as logical necessity. And I don't judge them. In fact I'm as glad they exist as I am that I don't know about them. Because while I may have plenty of things to complain about I also know I'm dependent as **** on this system we call civilization. I know that without it I'd probably die. And during normal operation I'm grateful to the people that keep it going. But if things were to start to go really sour or if there was a major credible threat of them doing so, I'd be just as grateful for these people that don't exist stepping in to ruin someone's (or a lot of people's) days preemptively, just so the system and by extension I can survive.

 

I think it comes down to scale. In the real world there is no threat big enough to warrant these non-existant people starting what basically amounts to preemptive genocide. As such the things they actually do may be piddly by comparison and not even all that heinous (but likely just as necessary). But in a world where a teenager can erase her entire existence from the minds of her creators, time travel, teleport, replicate another human being perfectly and potentially mind control and kill with a word and a gesture- and that person isn't even the most powerful of the bunch, then yes that's a threat that requires more extreme considerations and measures than anything we would encounter in real life. And I believe there are people that would step right up to consider and measure.

 

Given what I've said, exposure should be the worst crime a wizard can do, even more so than Unforgivable curses. Or at least Grand Exposure where it's not just one or two people that can be magically neuralized later. Especially as technology progresses forward and the internet and Youtube rise up. I know the timeline is early 90s but people still had cameras back then. Because if the real world was made aware of the magical world, things would go bad. Fast. Unless wizards already secretly control muggles. Which really would be the prudent course of action on the wizarding side.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Yes, Stryker is really an *******. But he had a point. The mutants were people who could cause untold destruction; one of them might've been able to use his powers to kill EVERY single human on the face of the Earth, and almost did.  

These wizards give children, with really no knowledge of history, to be able to go back in time. They even put all the evil kids into the same house together so they can scheme. I mean, if I found out about this secret society, as much as I despise government, I'd be calling for some tagging. 

[CrutchCricket]

Yes, Stryker is really an *******. But he had a point. The mutants were people who could cause untold destruction; one of them might've been able to use his powers to kill EVERY single human on the face of the Earth, and almost did.  

These wizards give children, with really no knowledge of history, to be able to go back in time. They even put all the evil kids into the same house together so they can scheme. I mean, if I found out about this secret society, as much as I despise government, I'd be calling for some tagging. 

 

And unlike the wizards, mutants aren't all part of one cohesive society and aren't created equal. Some are harmless. Others have very specific and situational powers that can be easily neutralized with enough preparation.

 

On the other hand any wizarding kid who can hold a wand could potentially say Imperio or Avada Kedavra. Or really any of the other spells that could be used lethally (creating fire, causing physical damage etc)

[SporkFu]

EDI for either HK-47 or Nordom.

[Kel Riever]

That's it, I'm onto this keeper stuff now.

 

If you can't bother to give me a krogan in ME3, then replace James with a keeper.  Make sure the keeper can be an LI, though I'm sure it dies.  Kai Leng probably kills it while he's typing (and then, you know, he goes and eats cereal)

[Mrs_Stick]

I will replace Jacob with an Elcor. He can be  my battering ram. And Then either get rid of Thane/Samara with the Volus Biotic God. At this point I believe My Shepard would say. What the heck am I suppose to do with them.

[Alien Fodder]

Tali with Aria

 

THIS. So very much this...

[Antmarch456]

Replace? Why not "add"?

 

But for the sake of the purpose of this thread...

I'd replace James with Kirrake

[themikefest]

Wrex with Wreav