15912 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Shiori]

A very potentially problematic Leliana. I'm not fond of the implication that mages don't belong in the world.

Leliana hasn't ready been exposed to the bad side of magic before. Her prior experience came from association with people like Hero of Ferelden, Wynne, Morrigan, etc. People who used their magic responsibly and didn't abuse it to bring harm to others. Now she's seen the other side of the coin and her comments reflect that.

Whatever her ultimate opinion about mages, she'll be a lot more realistic than she was before. 

 

Needless to say, my Inquisitor will get along with her quite well.

[The Elder King]

Leliana has also been tortured before.And the person torturing Leliana wasn't using magic. The implements in the room are standard beat, burn, and break.

Assuming Alexius didn't torture her too.
Though my point was more about the torture not affecting Cullen's opinion (in the moment, since I don't think that this quest alone would change Leliana's views) on mages.

[Xilizhra]

Leliana hasn't ready been exposed to the bad side of magic before. Her prior experience came from association with people like Hero of Ferelden, Wynne, Morrigan, etc. People who used their magic responsibly and didn't abuse it to bring harm to others. Now she's seen the other side of the coin and her comments reflect that.

Whatever her ultimate opinion about mages, she'll be a lot more realistic than she was before. 

 

Needless to say, my Inquisitor will get along with her quite well.

This despite her, too, seeing Broken Circle?

 

And she was plenty realistic in DAO. Moreso than many.

[Pateu]

Send in Scribbles to do diplomacy with the mad old guy. That will work.

[jlb524]

Perhaps if we upgrade our Spy/Assassination portions of the Inquisition.

 

Alexius said something about 'sending your assassins' before.  It could mean that they failed because that part of the Inquisition was mostly ignored.

 

I would say, not building one part of the organization but then sending it on an important mission late in the game would be bad

[AresKeith]

Perhaps if we upgrade our Spy/Assassination portions of the Inquisition.

 

That's what I'm thinking, they probably screwed up and got her caught

[The Elder King]

This despite her, too, seeing Broken Circle?
 
And she was plenty realistic in DAO. Moreso than many.

Cullen experienced on his skin. It's a bit different.
Though I agree on the second part.

[Master Shiori]

Some people were saying she was extremely antagonistic to Dorian. She seemed like she just wanted to forget about it, not like she was angry at Dorian specifically.

I wouldn't call the way she spoke to Dorian antagonistic.

 

Leliana just went through a traumatic experience and needs time to cope with it. Once she comes to terms with what happened, she'll likely be more open about talking about it.

[Allan Schumacher]

I like the meanness we see. My Warden taught her well. It will be good to see her kill the clowns that tortured her. And my femquisitor will gladly help

 

I enjoyed seeing her take the small moment of opportunity to seize the initiative and remove the guard from the equation

[Gwydden]

I wouldn't call the way she spoke to Dorian antagonistic.

 

Leliana just went through a traumatic experience and needs time to cope with it. Once she comes to terms with what happened, she'll likely be more open about talking about it.

If she lives that long...

[DalishRanger]

Playing catchup now...

 

Wackiest fan thing you've ever done involving Leliana?

 

Several fan arts involving my stupid sense of humor. Hard to pick a single one.

 

Indeed. What about an romanced warden showing up and saving Leliana in the last second? I don't care how cheesy or convenient that would be, would be  totally fanboying during the whole scene 

 

Only if they were somehow able to import the Warden's look, which I doubt. As amusing as the mental image is though, I'd personally rather see her save herself, if it's indeed just a teaser and not a result of the Inquisitor being improperly prepared.

 

I have a confession:

 

Leliana is officially my favorite neck snapper since Thane.

 

Yes, good. I'm liking seeing more of of her BAMF side.

 

I wouldn't call the way she spoke to Dorian antagonistic.

 

Leliana just went through a traumatic experience and needs time to cope with it. Once she comes to terms with what happened, she'll likely be more open about talking about it.

 

Yeah, people who were just tortured probably aren't in the cheeriest of moods in general. Can't even blame her for her mage comments based on what little context we had; I wouldn't call that her hating mages on a whole now - I'd have to see more, but she definitely seems more "get in and get stuff done" in a cold, calculating way. Not sure if that's solely due to how the mission was going or if it's how she is in general, but either way it's... interesting.

 

Can it be October 7th yet?

[Milan92]

I enjoyed seeing her take the small moment of opportunity to seize the initiative and remove the guard from the equation

 

Reminds me of that trick Riordan pulled in DAO

[Master Shiori]

This despite her, too, seeing Broken Circle?

 

And she was plenty realistic in DAO. Moreso than many.

Hardly.

 

She's never experienced first hand what mages who abuse their power are capable of. The Broken Circle was more of an example of what happens when mages get possessed by demons. Even then, there were others among them that refused to fall prey to such corruption and held true to the ideals of the Circle (Wynne and First enchanter).

 

But now, Leliana has come face to face with a mage who thinks nothing of using his power to harm others, and who does so at nobody's behest, but by his own free will. That's an entirely different experience and makes you realize that mages don't require demons in order to commit atrocities against others.

[Xilizhra]

Hardly.

 

She's never experienced first hand what mages who abuse their power are capable of. The Broken Circle was more of an example of what happens when mages get possessed by demons. Even then, there were others among them that refused to fall prey to such corruption and held true to the ideals of the Circle (Wynne and First enchanter).

 

But now, Leliana has come face to face with a mage who thinks nothing of using his power to harm others, and who does so at nobody's behest, but by his own free will. That's an entirely different experience and makes you realize that mages don't require demons in order to commit atrocities against others.

But... that's not even a realization. Anyone can commit atrocities against others, and there were a fair few mages who weren't possessed in Broken Circle either.

[TheJediSaint]

I enjoyed seeing her take the small moment of opportunity to seize the initiative and remove the guard from the equation

For someone who doesn't like her thighs, she sure knows how to use them.

[Maria Caliban]

Out of curiosity, why aren't they using magic? Surely that could produce results as well. Heck, use blood magic.

The dudes in the pyramid head inspired armors aren't mages. If the demo is anything to go by, Redcliffe has many demons and pyramid head dudes, but only a handful of mages.

I'd also suggest that magic would be no more effective at torturing someone than normal means. A fireball might be flashy but I doubt it's any more painful than shoving a hot poker in someone's anus, or more frightening than dunking their head in water and holding it down until they almost drown.

If you're actually interested in extracting information, the best way of doing so is simply giving them only enough food and water to survive, not letting them sleep, and waiting.

While it is true that we see run-of-the mill torture implements strewn about, I don't think that necessarily rules out the possibility that magic may have been used to torture Leliana. Maybe the torture tools were plan B, after she had resisted previous efforts to break her. She does look rather clean for instance. (not bruised or bloodied & still fully clothed)

Having a scene where Leliana is half-naked and horribly blooded/bruised is probably something they'd avoid. Not to mention that you'd need a model just for that scene.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Reminds me of that trick Riordan pulled in DAO

Or even better, the dwarf commoner. :S

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

[TheLittleBird]

For some reason that picture screams at me: "This is not the Leliana we know from Origins!"

Probably because I'm growing tired of people saying that, as I think her behaviour makes perfect sense in this scenario.

[Master Shiori]

But... that's not even a realization. Anyone can commit atrocities against others, and there were a fair few mages who weren't possessed in Broken Circle either.

Err, I don't think you quite understand the larger picture here.

 

Leliana spent her entire life in Andrastian society, where mages were locked up in Circle and possibly abused by the templars watching over them. When people in such position decide to rebel and resort to blood magic and demon summoning, it's seen as a last resort of a person desperate for freedom at any cost. IT can be excused or even understood. especially when there are others with same powers who don't follow that path and instead choose to help.

 

Here, you have Alexius, a Tevinter magister has more power than any mage in Ferelden or Orlais. And what does he do with it? He comes to Ferelden, possibly has a hand in the events that see the Divine killed and castle Redcliffe reduced to an empty ruin, and he captures Leliana and submits her to torture. Oh, and let's not forget the fact that he's summoned demons in to the world and created Fade rifts.

 

When faced with such an revelation and experience, it's small wonder that Leliana's view of mages and magic would be damaged. It doesn't mean she'll become a hard core mage hater from here on out (keep in mind her comments were made shortly after being released from a traumatic experience. Before she could fully come to terms with what happened to her), but she'll certainly be a lot more careful in how she views mages and their rights.

[Xilizhra]

Err, I don't think you quite understand the larger picture here.

 

Leliana spent her entire life in Andrastian society, where mages were locked up in Circle and possibly abused by the templars watching over them. When people in such position decide to rebel and resort to blood magic and demon summoning, it's seen as a last resort of a person desperate for freedom at any cost. IT can be excused or even understood. especially when there are others with same powers who don't follow that path and instead choose to help.

 

Here, you have Alexius, a Tevinter magister has more power than any mage in Ferelden or Orlais. And what does he do with it? He comes to Ferelden, possibly has a hand in the events that see the Divine killed and castle Redcliffe reduced to an empty ruin, and he captures Leliana and submits her to torture. Oh, and let's not forget the fact that he's summoned demons in to the world and created Fade rifts.

 

When faced with such an revelation and experience, it's small wonder that Leliana's view of mages and magic would be damaged. It doesn't mean she'll become a hard core mage hater from here on out (keep in mind her comments were made shortly after being released from a traumatic experience. Before she could fully come to terms with what happened to her), but she'll certainly be a lot more careful in how she views mages and their rights.

I still don't see it logically applying to more than a brief lapse, given that she clearly already knew about Tevinter, and that Andrastian citizens are already inculcated with hatred for the place.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well she would be need brain damaged to not see damage mages have caused to that point not mention stupid evil attitude so well if she see that just now what i can say...

[Senya]

Torture, loss, and possibly the end of the world has a way of affecting you. Heck, even Varric still hasn't gotten over the Qunari attack on Kirkwall based on comments about his relationship with the Iron Bull.

[Lenimph]

 

Probably because I'm growing tired of people saying that, as I think her behaviour makes perfect sense in this scenario.

Yeah me too... as if they know how anyone should react after being tortured... 

[Master Shiori]

I still don't see it logically applying to more than a brief lapse, given that she clearly already knew about Tevinter, and that Andrastian citizens are already inculcated with hatred for the place.

Hearing about something and having to experience it first hand are two different things.

 

Most of the citizens in Andrastian nations have no first hand experience with Tevinter. They either know it as that place that the Chantry preaches against or from old tales and legends about atrocities that magisters committed when the still ruled most of Thedas. 

 

For Leliana these are no longer tales and Chantry semons. She experienced first hand what Tevinter is capable of. It also explains why Dorian would take such interest in her well being. He's aware of what she feels and thinks after this, and wants to show her that not every Tevinter mage is as corrupt as Alexius.