15914 réponses à ce sujet

[MissDragon]

Just testing to see if I have done it right  

[MissDragon]

It seems I can . Always wanted to place a pic in but never knew how...until now. Erm who is this.....oh, it's on the tip of my tongue....

[Rel Fexive]

 

FYI the EA thing was a joke.

 

Ah, the "it was a joke" defence.  A classic.

[Lenimph]

I don't even see the point in having a lot of nudity in the sex scenes. Is it more immersive? Tasteful? Or do people just want to be aroused or something?

Because if that last one's the case, there's lots of stuff for that on the internet.
For me a romance is more about how it develops, emotionally. Sure, I like a good sex scene in a game just as much as the next guy, but I don't NEED it.

I used to be a pro fade to black person but after playing South Park: The Stick of Truth and seeing what that got away with Bioware really has no excuses...

If I can see a child get "abducted and tested" on by aliens then I need to see two consenting adults in a meaningful relationship express that physically to wash my brain and set better examples in the gaming world.

[Milan92]

I used to be a pro fade to black person but after playing South Park: The Stick of Truth and seeing what that got away with Bioware really has no excuses...

 

I dare them to make a scene like that.

[TheJediSaint]

I dare them to make a scene like that.

Low bridge!

[Maria Caliban]

Or do people just want to be aroused or something?

Yes.

Generally speaking, your fight scenes should be exciting. Your horror scenes, scary. Your death scenes, sorrowful. Your sex scenes, arousing.

There are people who will laugh at sex scenes, but there are also people who'll laugh when a character is brutally decapitated. I recall laughter when I watched SLC Punk and the main character sobs over the body of a friend who just died of an overdose. The camera sits there for 30 seconds as his face runs red and his nose drips with snot while he's just bawling. It's rather pitiable and unmanly, so people laugh because it's uncomfortably outside their frame of reference.

There's a pervasive sentiment that arousal is for porn or women's 'romance novels.' It doesn't help those who want video games to be respectable see titillation as an anathema to this while those who desire more maturity often do so uncritically.
 

Because if that last one's the case, there's lots of stuff for that on the internet.

I hate this argument.

What does the existence of anything online have to do with the appropriateness of something in a game? If the internet broke down tomorrow, would you then suggest people stuffing dozens of sex scenes into a game?

There's sad stuff online, funny stuff, scary stuff, philosophical stuff, political stuff, social stuff, yet I don't see you advocating removing any of those from the game.

[Lenimph]

Well you can still have arousing scenes without nudity. To me is more about the actions being done then seeing so and so naked. Isabela's foreplay scene is the most arousing scene in a Bioware game for me personally. I wish I could say the same for Leliana because I'm only willing to suspend my logic so long and not only was the underwear stupid but the positions themselves for Leliana and a female warden... Liara's in ME3 was nice but the others were silly, especially Traynors. Like the underwear just ruins what would be a very arousing scene because it's unlogical. I just want logical sex scenes or fade to black.

[Maria Caliban]

On a possibly related note, Leliana strikes me as the most sexually tolerant of the female love interests.

I can imagine a Warden saying that they don't enjoy sex and simply want a romantic, cuddly relationship, Leliana would say, "I can do that." If the Warden said they wanted to tie her up and flog her, Leliana would say, "I can do that." If the Warden said they're like her urinate on their face, Leliana would say, "You want me to... I'm going to need an hour and two liters of drinking water."

It's a trait I appreciate.

Though I admit this might simply be my tacking on attributes that don't fit.

Well you can still have arousing scenes without nudity. To me is more about the actions being done then seeing so and so naked. Isabela's foreplay scene is the most arousing scene in a Bioware game for me personally. I wish I could say the same for Leliana because I'm only willing to suspend my logic so long and not only was the underwear stupid but the positions themselves for Leliana and a female warden... Liara's in ME3 was nice but the others were silly, especially Traynors. Like the underwear just ruins what would be a very arousing scene because it's unlogical. I just want logical sex scenes or fade to black.

I once watched a video of an 'Improved Sex Scene' for Leliana. The creator apparently thought women have sex by artfully posing themselves several inches away from their partner's body.

As I understand it, it's ultimately a time and money issue. If you want to put in nudity, you have to create naked bodies just for that scene. The Isabela scene was a great way around this issue, as it both conveyed what the sex would be like while using the regular bodies.

Yeah, the underwear in Origins was unfortunate.

[Xilizhra]

On a possibly related note, Leliana strikes me as the most sexually tolerant of the female love interests.

I can imagine a Warden saying that they don't enjoy sex and simply want a romantic, cuddly relationship, Leliana would say, "I can do that." If the Warden said they wanted to tie her up and flog her, Leliana would say, "I can do that." If the Warden said they're like her urinate on their face, Leliana would say, "You want me to... I'm going to need an hour and two liters of drinking water."

It's a trait I appreciate.

Though I admit this might simply be my tacking on attributes that don't fit.

Interesting thought. I'm not sure if "the most" is accurate thanks to Isabela, though I suppose Leliana would be open to having sex less often than Isabela...

 

I sort of wish it was easier to peg Merrill's sexual interests, though. I often draw something of a blank.

[Alan Rickman]

Debates about torture, watersports... the Leliana thread has it all!

[Maria Caliban]

Interesting thought. I'm not sure if "the most" is accurate thanks to Isabela, though I suppose Leliana would be open to having sex less often than Isabela...
 
I sort of wish it was easier to peg Merrill's sexual interests, though. I often draw something of a blank.

If you asked Isabela for a relationship with no sex, she'd dump you. If you asked Isabela to perform a sex act she didn't specifically enjoy, she might give it a try, and then tell you 'I didn't like that, so we're not going to do it again.'

There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not suggesting that Leliana has a better approach to sex.

Leliana does feel like the down for whatever type.

Merrill would freak out if you asked her to pee on you. I don't think she'd be okay with flogging either.

[TheLittleBird]

I used to be a pro fade to black person but after playing South Park: The Stick of Truth and seeing what that got away with Bioware really has no excuses...

If I can see a child get "abducted and tested" on by aliens then I need to see two consenting adults in a meaningful relationship express that physically to wash my brain and set better examples in the gaming world.

A lot of stuff in that game was heavily censored here in Europe, though.

[Wulfram]

I'm not sure if Leliana would be comfortable with the more BDSM type stuff considering she's experienced actual torture.

[Xilizhra]

If you asked Isabela for a relationship with no sex, she'd dump you. If you asked Isabela to perform a sex act she didn't specifically enjoy, she might give it a try, and then tell you 'I didn't like that, so we're not going to do it again.'

There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not suggesting that Leliana has a better approach to sex.

Leliana does feel like the down for whatever type.

Merrill would freak out if you asked her to pee on you. I don't think she'd be okay with flogging either.

Fair enough. It'd probably be a good idea to make sure that she knows she can tell you if she's not into something.

[Maria Caliban]

Do you think she wouldn't know that?

[Xilizhra]

Do you think she wouldn't know that?

Intellectually, definitely, but it's something that my Warden would be a tad worried about after the whole "Would do anything for Marjolaine" thing; Leliana's major weakness is being manipulated by those with whom she shares an emotional connection.

[TheLittleBird]

Yes.

Generally speaking, your fight scenes should be exciting. Your horror scenes, scary. Your death scenes, sorrowful. Your sex scenes, arousing.

There are people who will laugh at sex scenes, but there are also people who'll laugh when a character is brutally decapitated. I recall laughter when I watched SLC Punk and the main character sobs over the body of a friend who just died of an overdose. The camera sits there for 30 seconds as his face runs red and his nose drips with snot while he's just bawling. It's rather pitiable and unmanly, so people laugh because it's uncomfortably outside their frame of reference.

There's a pervasive sentiment that arousal is for porn or women's 'romance novels.' It doesn't help those who want video games to be respectable see titillation as an anathema to this while those who desire more maturity often do so uncritically.


I hate this argument.

What does the existence of anything online have to do with the appropriateness of something in a game? If the internet broke down tomorrow, would you then suggest people stuffing dozens of sex scenes into a game?

There's sad stuff online, funny stuff, scary stuff, philosophical stuff, political stuff, social stuff, yet I don't see you advocating removing any of those from the game.

Oh I'm not advocating removal of nudity from the game, I'm merely stating why I feel like it's not that necessary. And don't get me wrong, I too love a good sex scene in games like these.

To me sex scenes are more about being the climax of a romance (or generally an important 'milestone', if you will, in any BioWare game), no pun intended. Nudity is fine, but for me even the idea that the PC has seen the other character in the nude, i.e. a simple fade to black as DA2 did it.

And maybe it wasn't such a good way of wording that last argument. Of course, arousal is not just limited to porn or those romance novels. But like I said, to me it's not about that.
Arousal's fine. It can be achieved by a lot of things, nudity being only one of them. What I meant is that I don't feel like BioWare should have to put a lot of nudity in the sex scenes for that. They could work around nudity.

Maybe I should've said that people in need of being aroused by seing genitals or even a small part of them, could try to find it online.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

If you asked Isabela for a relationship with no sex, she'd dump you. If you asked Isabela to perform a sex act she didn't specifically enjoy, she might give it a try, and then tell you 'I didn't like that, so we're not going to do it again.'

There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not suggesting that Leliana has a better approach to sex.

Leliana does feel like the down for whatever type.

Merrill would freak out if you asked her to pee on you. I don't think she'd be okay with flogging either.

 

Merrill always struck me as a secret perv (for want of a better word). Her wanting Isabela to tell her some dirty stories and my personal favourite her looking for "dirty spells" in Anders' grimoire. Although yeah, I imagine if Hawke asked Merrill to pee on her Merrill would probably think it was a joke she just wasn't understanding.

[Maria Caliban]

Intellectually, definitely, but it's something that my Warden would be a tad worried about after the whole "Would do anything for Marjolaine" thing; Leliana's major weakness is being manipulated by those with whom she shares an emotional connection.

Oh, you were talking about Leliana. I thought you meant Merrill.

Here's the thing about Leliana: You can't get a healthy relationship with her. After you defeat Marjoline, she replaces Marjoline with the PC in her hardening dialogue. It doesn't matter what choice you make (hardened or not) because she's letting you decide who she is.

You don't get to not manipulate her, at best you can tell her that you'd like her to make most of these decisions for herself.

That said, I think it's easy to avoid emotionally abusing others when it comes to sex, but maybe that's just me.

I'm not sure if Leliana would be comfortable with the more BDSM type stuff considering she's experienced actual torture.

I don't know.

[Lenimph]

A lot of stuff in that game was heavily censored here in Europe, though.

From what I heard just the Alien stuff was but the two parents weren't and that was graphic. The alien stuff involved a minor and was rightfully censored IMO.

And Europeans calling us Americans the conservatives pfft.

Anyway I agree with Maria about Leliana being an any thing goes kind of person and Isabela being more demanding when it comes to sex. (She wants it and she wants it in a way that will make her feel good, where as I think Leliana is mostly in it for the personal connection and pleasing her partner, but she obviously finds it fun too)

I do think Merril is a bit of a closet perv tho. Like she might say "eww" when Isabela suggested anal play advice to Aveline but I wouldn't be surprised if she eventually tried it herself later out of curiosity.

[Maria Caliban]

I think it's more likely she's a closet perv than Alistar was.

As much as Sebastian talks about his previous life of debauchery, I imagine he was incredibly vanilla.

[Rel Fexive]

Yeah.... Anything Sebastian (now) thinks of as shocking perversity on his part (ho ho) Isabela would probably consider boring foreplay.

[Xilizhra]

Oh, you were talking about Leliana. I thought you meant Merrill.

Here's the thing about Leliana: You can't get a healthy relationship with her. After you defeat Marjoline, she replaces Marjoline with the PC in her hardening dialogue. It doesn't matter what choice you make (hardened or not) because she's letting you decide who she is.

You don't get to not manipulate her, at best you can tell her that you'd like her to make most of these decisions for herself.

That said, I think it's easy to avoid emotionally abusing others when it comes to sex, but maybe that's just me.

It's probably easier than my Warden might think it is.

 

And I'll agree on Merrill being a closet perv.

[Basement Cat]

I'm not sure if Leliana would be comfortable with the more BDSM type stuff considering she's experienced actual torture.

Torture is to BDSM what rape to is sex. Knowing you can stop everything at any moment makes a tremendous difference.