15912 réponses à ce sujet

[Basement Cat]

Leliana is better off alone than to be in any type of abusive relationship I feel. I could never will myself to be mean towards her, it's like kicking a puppy, a special musical puppy.

That's true for anyone.

[MissDragon]

Leliana is better off alone than to be in any type of abusive relationship I feel. I could never will myself to be mean towards her, it's like kicking a puppy, a special musical puppy.

 

I feel the same way about Leliana...I could never hurt her.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Leliana is better off alone than to be in any type of abusive relationship I feel. I could never will myself to be mean towards her, it's like kicking a puppy, a special musical puppy.

i just love as some paint her as innocent little girl especially that she herself manipulates others for own pleasure what pretty much makes her huge hypocrite you can even tell her that.

[CrimsonN7]

i just love as some paint her as innocent little girl especially that she herself manipulates others for own pleasure what pretty much makes her huge hypocrite you can even tell her that.

 

Leliana is no innocent, I'm well aware of her faults which makes her more human and really interesting, her past is quite dark. I never did a playthrough where I didn't harden her, she admits as you know when you go this route that the Chantry clositer life bored her, life as a lay sister isn't her, she desires adventure, excitement, freedom and more in life.

 

Leliana DAI profile

 

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Leliana is no innocent, I'm well aware of her faults which makes her more human and really interesting, her past is quite dark. I never did a playthrough where I didn't harden her, she admits as you know when you go this route that the Chantry clositer life bored her, life as a lay sister isn't her, she desires adventure, excitement, freedom and more in life.

 

Leliana DAI profile

 

 

Then it isn't kicking puppy because here well it is just karma

[TheKomandorShepard]

A puppy can manipulate me but it's still a cute little puppy to me.

Puppy can't manipulate you (i rly hope that i don't need tell you why)... unless it is some weird fiction.

[CrimsonN7]

Then it isn't kicking puppy because here well it is just karma

She is good at her craft I'll give her that, still can't be mean to her. She's just too adorable and charming at times yunno for a woman who has killed and manipulated people for a living. Damn she really is good huh.

[Xilizhra]

 

Leliana is no innocent, I'm well aware of her faults which makes her more human and really interesting, her past is quite dark. I never did a playthrough where I didn't harden her, she admits as you know when you go this route that the Chantry clositer life bored her, life as a lay sister isn't her, she desires adventure, excitement, freedom and more in life.

I don't really want to harden her, because the hardening line doesn't sound like something I'd ever actually say. I mean, if she's frightened about her morals going, I don't feel all that inclined to say "yeah, drop 'em."

[Maria Caliban]

Not intentionally, at least. That 'the Blight is the Maker's punishment. Will you defy him?' line. I was curious... She's got a hair trigger, that one. Not surprising considering she's a fiery redhead, but... ouch.

What does she say?

Leliana is no innocent, I'm well aware of her faults which makes her more human and really interesting, her past is quite dark. I never did a playthrough where I didn't harden her, she admits as you know when you go this route that the Chantry clositer life bored her, life as a lay sister isn't her, she desires adventure, excitement, freedom and more in life.

Maybe she's just lying to you because that's what you want to hear.

[TheKomandorShepard]

She is good at her craft I'll give her that, still can't be mean to her. She's just too adorable and charming at times yunno for a woman who has killed and manipulated people for a living. Damn she really is good huh.

I wouldn't say she is good my warden lied her with extremely cheap lie.

For me she is just a hypocrite.

 

 

What does she say?

She don't know what to say and eventually calls you a pessimist while being angry.

[CrimsonN7]

I don't really want to harden her, because the hardening line doesn't sound like something I'd ever actually say. I mean, if she's frightened about her morals going, I don't feel all that inclined to say "yeah, drop 'em."

 

Fair enough, I just preferred being firm with her, she was hiding from who she really is, she's not cut out for the cloister life. I have no problems with her having her faith, it gives her comfort but I don't want to be an enabler in a sense. She enjoyed her life as an Orlesian bard, I prefer that she be honest with herself.  

[Maria Caliban]

...who she really is...

Hardened or softened, pre or post Chantry, I don't think this is something anyone, especially Leliana, knows.

Leliana is an outline of a person; there are boundaries but the details are indistinct*.

Did Leliana find peace in the Chantry? Yes.
Did Leliana find the chantry life boring? Yes.
Does Leliana believe in her visions? Yes.
Does Leliana doubt her visions? Yes.
Does Leliana enjoy manipulating and using people? Yes.
Does Leliana hate manipulating and using people? Yes.

Leliana found pleasure in being a bard, but the endpoint of being a bard is Marjoline. That's something Leliana didn't want to become so she left that path behind when shown a different one. Being a chantry sister didn't quite fit her, but serving Chantry obviously did.

I expect in DA:I we'll see a Leliana who's resolved that issue of who she is, perhaps by finding a solid answer or perhaps by accepting that, like many important questions, you can get close to the truth but never quite catch it.

* Re-reading that, it's catchy but exaggerated. Leliana's Song shows us a pre-Chantry Leliana who is sweet, eager to please, playful, and cares for others. She kills people, yes, but prefers trickery and indirect methods.

I'd say the big thing the Chantry gave her was something big and fat to believe in. I don't think Leliana wants to live in a tiny world.

[Basement Cat]

I expect in DA:I we'll see a Leliana who's resolved that issue of who she is, perhaps by finding a solid answer or perhaps by accepting that, like many important questions, you can get close to the truth but never quite catch it.

I think the key to finding her balance was learning to accept that, while she has destructive urges, she can channel them in a way that will minimize harm. Being a cloistered sister bored her, but she still found her faith. She enjoys hunting people down, but she can do so in the service of the Chantry instead of squabbling, petty nobles. That is a good middle ground for her. She is similar to Cassandra in a way: she used to believe she had to be one or the other, that things were black and white. She was either a good person who does good things, or a bad person who does bad things. Unfortunately, it's more complicated than that.

 

Is it messed up? Yes it is, but Thedas is a messed up world. Someone's got to do the dirty work, because there's plenty of people who would do far, far worse if they were not stopped.

[Han Shot First]

Puppy can't manipulate you (i rly hope that i don't need tell you why)... unless it is some weird fiction.

 

Never owned a dog, have you? Dogs are adept at manipulating people into giving them things they want, like treats, or a favorite toy, or a belly rub. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Never owned a dog, have you? Dogs are adept at manipulating people into giving them things they want, like treats, or praise, or a belly rub. 

LoL i had 6 dogs in my life now i have 3... simple dogs can't manipulate because they don't have mental capabilities to do so.At best they can instinctively demonstrate their need or be trained for certain behaviors.

   

[Basement Cat]

LoL i had 6 dogs in my life now i have 3... simple dogs can't manipulate because they don't have mental capabilities to do so.At best they can instinctively demonstrate their need or be trained for certain behaviors.

   

Dogs can manipulate alright. Is it instinctive? Nope, but they can learn it. Read on the Moscow dog gangs. Those things know how to take the metro and know to send the smallest, cutest member of the pack to beg for food. It's a new step in evolution: only the smartest survive in an urban setting and it shows.

[CrimsonN7]

I'd say the big thing the Chantry gave her was something big and fat to believe in. I don't think Leliana wants to live in a tiny world.

 

And now being the Left Hand of the Divine It certainly gave her a new found purpose in life and goals to work towards. Plus her faith gave her comfort in her darkest moments so yup Leliana's journey has been quite eventful over the years.

[Zjarcal]

KomandorShepard's posts are quite adorable in a puppy peed themselves in the face kinda way.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Dogs can manipulate alright. Is it instinctive? Nope, but they can learn it. Read on the Moscow dog gangs. Those things know how to take the metro and know to send the smallest, cutest member of the pack to beg for food. It's a new step in evolution: only the smartest survive in an urban setting and it shows.

Hardly manipulative rather adaptive by lerning certain behavior for example i gave my dogs food at a certain time and eventually they always were there about that time i give them food.Same behavior i noticed in cat that i feed always when i was was returning from the school.

 

Even most peoples can't manipulate others as that requires knowledge about how peoples work and social skills.

 

So in the end it is nothing more than beggars do counting on help of others.     

 

 

KomandorShepard's posts are quite adorable in a puppy peed themselves in the face kinda way.

Well at least no one called me a sociopath

[Maria Caliban]

All social animals engage in manipulation. The earliest and simplest form of manipulation is the various signaling behaviors infants do to prompt food or attention. In mammals, even infantile characteristics like large eyes or soft features work as a form of manipulation as they provoke protective or caring emotional reactions.

Cats and dogs are both excellent manipulators. Cats were not domesticated; the earliest urban communities provided a source of food and shelter, so cats just moved in. When my cat curls up on me, purrs, or demands pets, she's showing affection, but she's also creating an emotional bond that she exploits for free food and continued safety.

And cats are dumb. Her brain is the size of my little toe. It doesn't matter though because higher intelligence has little to do with effective social interaction.

[Basement Cat]

And cats a dumb. Her brain is the size of my little toe. It doesn't matter though because higher intelligence has little to do with effective social interaction.

True that. There are genius artists and scientists who are absolutely inept in social situations. They usually get by because people need them, not because they like them.

 

Just about all interaction is a form of manipulation or bargaining. Nobody would want to be friends with anyone if they did not somehow benefit, even if that benefit is just having someone like minded to talk to. Heck, even charity: a lot of people do it because it makes them feel good about themselves to help others. Actually performing an act that does not benefit us in any way whatsoever is actually quite difficult, even if the reward is just a 'warm fuzzy feeling'.

[TheKomandorShepard]

All social animals engage in manipulation. The earliest and simplest form of manipulation is the various signaling behaviors infants do to prompt food or attention. In mammals, even infantile characteristics like large eyes or soft features work as a form of manipulation as they provoke protective or caring emotional reactions.

Cats and dogs are both excellent manipulators. Cats were not domesticated; the earliest urban communities provided a source of food and shelter, so cats just moved in. When my cat curls up on me, purrs, or demands pets, she's showing affection, but she's also creating an emotional bond that she exploits for free food and continued safety.

And cats a dumb. Her brain is the size of my little toe. It doesn't matter though because higher intelligence has little to do with effective social interaction.

It isn't rly manipulation kick dog systematically and he will escape when dog will see you and hide under the table , give cat food systematically and he will teach that you will give them food and will wait in front of your door.

 

To manipulate someone you must know that you manipulate someone.

Asking your dad for money isn't manipulation despite he will give you money if you purposely try made your father guilty because he didn't gave you money to force him to give you money is manipulation.

 

 

True that. There are genius artists and scientists who are absolutely inept in social situations. They usually get by because people need them, not because they like them.

 

Just about all interaction is a form of manipulation or bargaining. Nobody would want to be friends with anyone if they did not somehow benefit, even if that benefit is just having someone like minded to talk to. Heck, even charity: a lot of people do it because it makes them feel good about themselves to help others. Actually performing an act that does not benefit us in any way whatsoever is actually quite difficult, even if the reward is just a 'warm fuzzy feeling'.

 

Not entirely reason for that is that they lack of social knowledge so you need both to effectively manipulate for example in case of sociopath more intelligent he/she is easier he/she can blend in.

[cjones91]

All social animals engage in manipulation. The earliest and simplest form of manipulation is the various signaling behaviors infants do to prompt food or attention. In mammals, even infantile characteristics like large eyes or soft features work as a form of manipulation as they provoke protective or caring emotional reactions.

Cats and dogs are both excellent manipulators. Cats were not domesticated; the earliest urban communities provided a source of food and shelter, so cats just moved in. When my cat curls up on me, purrs, or demands pets, she's showing affection, but she's also creating an emotional bond that she exploits for free food and continued safety.

And cats are dumb. Her brain is the size of my little toe. It doesn't matter though because higher intelligence has little to do with effective social interaction.

I don't know about the cats are dumb part.Some species are quite intelligent such as lions who use tactics not seen in other animals.