Guest_Act of Velour_*
How does The hardening turn her into Isabela
?
I said it makes her like Isabela, not turns her into Isabela. She gets a lot more carefree, wants a lot of sex/makes sexual jokes or comments, and becomes a thieving, love-for-the-action Bard/Rogue. Isabela's the same, minus the Bard part.
Guest_Act of Velour_*
I see.
Are you aware of Leliana's past? Because if you are, you remember that this is a part of who she is...right?
Yeah, but it's a lifestyle she thinks is self-destructive and one she gives up on unless the Warden encourages her otherwise.
Even if you harden Leliana, she still disapproves of most morally questionable actions, still needs to love your Warden to sleep with your Warden, still has the whole 'sweet and caring' air, etc etc. She lets her more raunchy, playful streak come out to the forefront a bit more and follows the Chantry's values a little less, but I don't think she's that different from unhardened Leliana. Not an entirely new person by any means.
Though I prefer unhardened, I don't really have any issue with hardened Leliana. I just really dislike the dialogue options you need to take to harden her, so I never do it in any of my playthroughs.
The term 'hardened' makes the juvenile side of my mind wander every time by the way...
Guest_Act of Velour_*
Even if you harden Leliana, she still disapproves of most morally questionable actions, still needs to love your Warden to sleep with your Warden, etc etc. She lets her more raunchy, playful streak come out to the forefront a bit more and follows the Chantry's values a little less, but I don't think she's that different from unhardened Leliana. Not an entirely new person by any means.
Though I prefer unhardened, I don't really have any issue with hardened Leliana. I just really dislike the dialogue options you need to take to harden her, so I never do it in any of my playthroughs.
The term 'hardened' makes the juvenile side of my mind wander every time by the way...
We're all perverts, don't worry. 
But yeah, I don't have a problem with Hardened Leliana, but it wasn't personally the thing for me. In my opinion she seemed too much like Isabela when Hardened. I preferred what I saw as Leliana, the unique one. Of course, that's not discrediting those who did Harden her.
Yes, that.
I hardened her in my first run purely to have a threesome with Isabela... which I don't think is that bad. But then I decided against it... but then it turned out not to matter in DAI, so I feel better.
You'd think at least the question "did you or did you not persuade her to fall back into her more ruthless ways of thinking" would come up in the Keep. But then I suppose that would require Bioware to make four advisers instead of three, so I guess I understand. Although actually, from what I understand of Leiliana her recent change in character is going to make the difference between her hardened and unhardened characterizations look trivial enough in comparison to her new outlook vs. either that that choice could legitimately not matter.
We're all perverts, don't worry.
In addition to wanting the threesome (which later turned into a foursome when I roleplayed an anything-that-moves female human mage, so whether or not we're all perverts you are certainly right about me) I just thought that hardening her forced her to take a closer look at her psychological processes that would be healthier than trying to deny that Marjolaine had some degree of a point.
There is a lesson to be learned from Leliana's story. You cannot run from your past and leave unfinished business...it will find you. I agreed with my warden when they told her something like this. My only wish is that Leli could've come to that conclusion on her own with no input from my warden but it doesn't make the conclusion any less valid, imo.
I prefer giving her some uplifting and supporting her in her desire to change for the better rather than telling her she and Marjolaine are alike and that she needs to accept that, personally. Because neither me nor my Warden believed they are, and it seems to be true given the fact that hardened Leliana isn't even that different, as I said above. The dialogue options are pretty much what turned me off from ever hardening Leliana.
We already killed Marjolaine. Needed to be done. But now that part of her life is over, and Leliana can truly move on from it.
But, that's just how I see it, anywho.
There is a lesson to be learned from Leliana's story. You cannot run from your past and leave unfinished business...it will find you. I agreed with my warden when they told her something like this. My only wish is that Leli could've come to that conclusion on her own with no input from my warden but it doesn't make the conclusion any less valid, imo.
I always harden her myself, have no qualms doing so either.
I always harden her myself, have no qualms doing so either.
I once played a paladinesque Arcane Warrior who didn't. I'm fairly sure that character was the exception as far as mine go. (I only had one other paladin, and I wanted to do the threesome as him.)
Guest_Act of Velour_*
We've all got our own headcanons. It's the beauty of Dragon Age.
I see.
My perspective of running from her past isn't just about Marjolaine though. What Leli had done...the things she'd done...she isn't perfect. I liked that about her...actually loved. And if I truly felt like she was happy in the Chantry, I could never bring myself to give her that advice as the warden. I honestly felt like she was unhappy...I felt she kept repeating the things she learned(some of which i'm sure were good) to keep convincing herself that this is what made her happy. No one else told her "hey, did you think about it this way?" before the warden. Or at least that's my understanding.
As you know she admits that the life of a lay sister bored her, it wasn't for her. She did miss the thrill, the danger that came with the bard life, she missed the adventures, she enjoyed her old life, very much. Until she was betrayed and left for dead.
This also adds to why I have no problem hardening her myself, I just feel I'm helping Leliana come to that obvious conclusion myself, I like to be firm with her here.
Guest_Act of Velour_*
it would be a headcanon if I based it off of something that did not happen canonically. I am not so this shouldn't apply. Her mannerisms in game and the vanilla stories are where I'm coming from.
I meant to say we've all got an idea of what our ideal canon is. None are any better or worse than the other.
My perspective of running from her past isn't just about Marjolaine though. What Leli had done...the things she'd done...she isn't perfect. I liked that about her...actually loved.
Bioware really gets on my nerves sometimes, just like the way the treated the MASS EFFECT 2 companions in MASS EFFECT 3. Leliana needs to be an optional companion. The Inquisitor should be able to romance her if your Warden did not......sigh Bioware 
Bioware really gets on my nerves sometimes, just like the way the treated the MASS EFFECT 2 companions in MASS EFFECT 3. Leliana needs to be an optional companion. The Inquisitor should be able to romance her if your Warden did not......sigh Bioware
Meh. I love Leliana as much as the next person, but I'm fine with her being an adviser rather than a companion. I'd much rather we get new people to fill the companion roles rather than have a bunch of returning characters taking up spots.
As for romance...same deal. I'd rather have new people for us to get to know instead of returning characters filling up those spots, too. Especially when it's someone who's already an option for another character, which is ground that shouldn't be re-treaded.
All I am saying is that why not make Leliana available for the inquisitor to romance if your Warden did not? I mean she is somewhat of a fan favorite, look what they did to Garrus and Tali? they were in all three games and romance options in all three games that's fan service at its finest
or was it just two games? I can't remember but you guys catch my drift lol
All I am saying is that why not make Leliana available for the inquisitor to romance if your Warden did not?
And then we'd have the problem of people who romanced Leliana in DA:O having one less option in DA:I - and we've seen how much gender imbalance in romance options means to some people.
Which is avoided by just making new options for a new character instead.
I mean she is somewhat of a fan favorite, look what they did to Garrus and Tali? they were in all three games and romance options in all three games that's fan service at its finest
The fans that she was the favourite of got her in DA:O. Unlike Mass Effect, we're playing as someone else now.
Thanks for responding Snook 
, my first time in the dragon age forum section, Inquisition will be my first dragon age title to actually fully play, I have just seen and heard about the previous companions and it would be nice to see them available in this new title for noobs like me. From what I have just seen, read, and heard Isabela, Leliana, Morrigan, Sera, and Cassandra are my favorite females......wish they were all available for some lovin from my male inquis. in Inquisition but oh well Maybe in DLC haha......not likely. C'est la vie
unfortunatly sera is not and because Morrigan and Leliana may be romanced in DAO, they cannot here!
I always harden her myself, have no qualms doing so either.
I mostly do it for the threesome option with Isabela
I'm a horrible person.
I mostly do it for the threesome option with Isabela
I'm a horrible person.
I'm still amazed that the threesome/foursome option with Isabela wasn't a tile in the Keep? Or for the potential threesome in the male Dwarf Noble origin with Mardy and Teli?
Yeah, I know that Mardy becoming pregnant and having either an OGB or human son with Morrigan are the only important plot related decisions that matter, but I'm just saying... is it wrong to want to craft the "Ultimate Casanova" world state?
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