15912 réponses à ce sujet

[inko1nsiderate]

I wasn't really referring to her openness to a threeway/fourway, but more-so that she seemed to be to be more like Marjolaine, whom backstabbed her long-time lover, treated her like garbage, had her tortured, and wanted to have her killed, all on little more than a whim. I figured she'd be worse for general relationships because I couldn't trust her. I knew better than to trust full Bards to begin with, and it'd suck to have to end up killing Leliana if she turned a dagger on her Warden-lover when they were most trusting of her. The desire for sex with others didn't really factor in, but I'm fairly sensitive to monogamy; if it's no-strings-attached and just some kind of casual thing, I'm all for it; I'm very, very sexually open in that case. But if someone's in a relationship where love is professed in earnest, it's my own belief that that shouldn't be interfered with or added to. If it's serious, I like to keep it between two people only. That's simply my opinion, and others aren't wrong for possibly believing otherwise. Yeah, thank you, the term I wanted was polyamory. I'm pretty drowsy and certain words are escaping me.   In the end though, I didn't dislike Hardened Leliana for sexual reasons, but more along the lines of me personally feeling unable to trust her.

I think the exact opposite regarding a hardened Leliana frankly.  Because she is finally honest to herself and the Warden about why she left the Chantry, I think you can trust her more.  She has finally come to grips with what really motivated her to leave the Chantry, why she did the things she did, she hasn't changed her ideas that the Maker can speak to you or act through you, but she's finally being honest to herself.  She understands herself, and the Warden is really the only other person who gets to see this side of her, and it seems that being involved and part of that personal journey with Leliana makes it more intimate.  

The sex proposition is basically trivial to avoid: if your Warden isn't flirty with Isabella it never comes up.  I don't see it as her becoming more like Majorlaine, so much as it is becoming more of her own person who is honest about why she does what she does to those who are close to her.  Majorlaine pretty much was never up front about what she did or why she did it, and was always playing an angle, and by being honest about enjoying the thrill of adventure and the boredom of the sisterhood Leliana is able to be honest and vulnerable to the Warden in a way that just wasn't possible before.  That is something Majorlaine would never do.

[Xilizhra]

I wasn't really referring to her openness to a threeway/fourway, but more-so that she seemed to be to be more like Marjolaine, whom backstabbed her long-time lover, treated her like garbage, had her tortured, and wanted to have her killed, all on little more than a whim. I figured she'd be worse for general relationships because I couldn't trust her. I knew better than to trust full Bards to begin with, and it'd suck to have to end up killing Leliana if she turned a dagger on her Warden-lover when they were most trusting of her. The desire for sex with others didn't really factor in, but I'm fairly sensitive to monogamy; if it's no-strings-attached and just some kind of casual thing, I'm all for it; I'm very, very sexually open in that case. But if someone's in a relationship where love is professed in earnest, it's my own belief that that shouldn't be interfered with or added to. If it's serious, I like to keep it between two people only. That's simply my opinion, and others aren't wrong for possibly believing otherwise. Yeah, thank you, the term I wanted was polyamory. I'm pretty drowsy and certain words are escaping me.   In the end though, I didn't dislike Hardened Leliana for sexual reasons, but more along the lines of me personally feeling unable to trust her.

Even when Leliana was under Marjolaine, she was completely trusting and open to all of her friends. Leliana's Song clarifies this. Even as a bard, she was never anything like Marjolaine.

[The Elder King]

I don't see hardened Leliana becoming like Marjolaine at all. Bards don't Generally kill and betray everyone. Marjolaine did because that's What she was (Not to mention I don't think she really loved Leliana). Unless Leliana already had an hidden agenda before meeting The Warden, I honestly don't see it happening.
It is howewer an interesting interpretation. I doubt hardening matters much anyway in DAI though. The keep doesn't have The choice (unless it's related to killing/spared Marjolaine).

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

(unless it's related to killing/spared Marjolaine).

If it does bunch that together I'm gonna be really miffed, because I killed Marjolaine and left her unhardened.

[CrimsonHead]

I'd say all the years since DA:O harden Leliana anyway, regardless of what the warden said or did.

 

Especially when it turns out to be true that the Divine dies in the explosion at the peace summit.

[jlb524]

To me, there's not much difference between unhardened/hardened anyway.

 

That mechanic could have been better (for Alistair too).

[The Elder King]

If it does bunch that together I'm gonna be really miffed, because I killed Marjolaine and left her unhardened.

I do fear this might happen. Same for Alistair and goldanna.
I think I'll make a thread in the keep section next week and see if I can get an Answer.

[The Elder King]

Same here. I hope they include Hardening/Unhardening options in the Keep. They were pretty major decisions.

It is possible they'll add them before release, but The fact that they didn't yet makes me think they won't affect much Leliana's and alistair' personalities in DAI.

[introverted_assassin]

and consider, as someone has said, that Leli will have been through a lot by now that could change her personality with or without the aid of the warden in a NUMBER of ways...negative or positive.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I kinda doubt the changes she'd go through as a result of the Divine dying/everything else to happen would be the same as hardening her, though. Hell, hardened Leliana probably changes as a result too.

I'm not really a believer in the whole 'Leliana is an entirely different person now' thing, but whatever changes do come as a result it probably affected hardened and unhardened Leliana equally.

[Xilizhra]

Though even she worried she'd eventually become like her.

A rather decent sign that she's less likely to be, than someone who was totally unconcerned with the path they were taking.

[Apostate.]

I wonder what she thinks about Morrigan.

[Han Shot First]

I think the exact opposite regarding a hardened Leliana frankly.  Because she is finally honest to herself and the Warden about why she left the Chantry, I think you can trust her more.  She has finally come to grips with what really motivated her to leave the Chantry, why she did the things she did, she hasn't changed her ideas that the Maker can speak to you or act through you, but she's finally being honest to herself.  She understands herself, and the Warden is really the only other person who gets to see this side of her, and it seems that being involved and part of that personal journey with Leliana makes it more intimate.  

The sex proposition is basically trivial to avoid: if your Warden isn't flirty with Isabella it never comes up.  I don't see it as her becoming more like Majorlaine, so much as it is becoming more of her own person who is honest about why she does what she does to those who are close to her.  Majorlaine pretty much was never up front about what she did or why she did it, and was always playing an angle, and by being honest about enjoying the thrill of adventure and the boredom of the sisterhood Leliana is able to be honest and vulnerable to the Warden in a way that just wasn't possible before.  That is something Majorlaine would never do.

 

Good post, and I agree with your interpretation.

 

I think Leliana's later portrayal in DA2, and presumably in DA:I, is also a little bit more in line with hardened persona. She retains her faith in the Maker, even the bits that might be slightly heretical, but she's also come to accept and embrace her past as a bard and is using those skills to serve the Divine and later the Inquisition. 

[TimXP]

I usually choose to harden Leliana. Partly it's because, as others have said, the writing suggests that the hardened version of Leliana is a more accurate reflection of who she is -- essentially good and principled but with a dark streak -- than the unhardened version who keeps lying to herself. Plus, I think my Warden and his followers killed something like a thousand people by the time we fought the Archdemon. Through severed bandit heads alone, we probably did more to depopulate Ferelden than the Darkspawn hordes. Constantly debating whether or not you're really a killer seems pretty academic at that point.

[Lenimph]

In case anyone cares I've been on media black out and going to be on media black out until the game comes out. 

 

See you all when I come in here to swoon... or cry... hopefully swoon.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

See you all when I come in here to swoon... or cry... hopefully swoon.

 

I'm expecting both. Maybe at once. 

[Zjarcal]

In case anyone cares I've been on media black out and going to be on media black out until the game comes out. 

 

See you all when I come in here to swoon... or cry... hopefully swoon.

 

U can cry on my bossom first doe.

 

I would say I'm on blackout too but I already avoid dis site a lot anyway.

[Lenimph]

U can cry on my bossom first doe.

 

I would say I'm on blackout too but I already avoid dis site a lot anyway.

Can I cry on the lap instead? 

[Zjarcal]

Can I cry on the lap instead? 

 

*replies on steam*

[PsychoticFox]

Popping into the hardening discussion... I leave Leliana unhardened a good 85% of the time.

 

It just seems... kinder? Especially when it comes to the Warden's dialogue options.

 

"Marjolaine chose who she became. So can you," and "You are a good person. You always will be," in addition to the Warden's dialogue options that follow those two statements seem more fitting of/for Leliana and how she feels about the situation. She's... distressed? worried? about becoming the same sort of person Marjolaine was. Why would you essentially tell her "yes, you are like her"?

 

Also I really wish that something like Mordin's "Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes execute dangerous people. Either way helps." line from Mass Effect 2 was available for the Warden to say. It would be especially fitting of my canon warden, a mage who both healed and killed in roughly equal numbers.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Popping into the hardening discussion... I leave Leliana unhardened a good 85% of the time.

 

It just seems... kinder? Especially when it comes to the Warden's dialogue options.

 

"Marjolaine chose who she became. So can you," and "You are a good person. You always will be," in addition to the Warden's dialogue options that follow those two statements seem more fitting of/for Leliana and how she feels about the situation. She's... distressed? worried? about becoming the same sort of person Marjolaine was. Why would you essentially tell her "yes, you are like her"?

 

Also I really wish that something like Mordin's "Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes execute dangerous people. Either way helps." line from Mass Effect 2 was available for the Warden to say. It would be especially fitting of my canon warden, a mage who both healed and killed in roughly equal numbers.

 

The dialogue options are pretty much the main reason I never hardened Leliana either. Don't mind the actual change that occurs for her. It's just my canon Warden would have never said the things you have to say to get her there.

[PsychoticFox]

The dialogue options are pretty much the main reason I never hardened Leliana either. Don't mind the actual change that occurs for her. It's just my canon Warden would have never said the things you have to say to get her there.

Same. I don't mind the change so much either, it's just...

 

Unless I'm playing absolute dickbag!warden the dialogue options to harden her are pretty ooc for a lot of my wardens. And for me.