I'm trying to understand how y'all keep saying y'all would be okay with this. I really...don't get it.
Whoa! I did say I'd be cool with the original idea IF and ONLY IF they stopped short of Lels (or the demon posing as her) jumping into bed with you.
The whole basic idea of "returning to Haven" sounds awesome to me. It's a shame that after not getting it right the first time, they just completely rewrote it, instead of fixing the mistakes.
So they were OK with the actual rape by deception of the PC but not the squickyness of the demon using Leliana's form? Odd. But glad they got rid of it, anyway.
I thought that's where he was going with the post to begin with, honestly; as uncomfortable as actual Leliana would be about the idea, the PC seems like the biggest victim in that situation. I suppose out-of-game though, the player probably knew that it was a dream by that point --the multiple "something isn't right" dialogue options before that point would tell them as much-- so the choice presented to the player then was more along the lines of "Have sex with fake Leliana; yes/no", which is probably what he's referring to.
As much as that sounds like exactly the kind of thing a demon would do in-universe, I'm not sad it was cut, although the whole "It was all a dream" part sounds like it could've been pretty cool depending now how seamless the transition was.
I thought that's where he was going with the post to begin with, honestly; as uncomfortable as actual Leliana would be about the idea, the PC seems like the biggest victim in that situation. I suppose out-of-game though, the player probably knew that it was a dream by that point --the multiple "something isn't right" dialogue options before that point would tell them as much-- so the choice presented to the player then was more along the lines of "Have sex with fake Leliana; yes/no", which is probably what he's referring to.
As much as that sounds like exactly the kind of thing a demon would do in-universe, I'm not sad it was cut, although the whole "It was all a dream" part sounds like it could've been pretty cool depending now how seamless the transition was.
That's a big issue imo.
We are limited to what Gaider posted in his write up so you can't get the full explanation and thus interpretations of this scene occur but when he says the “Woah! This definitely isn’t right!” it happens in regard to him describing the seduction conversation. He claims you think you are in the real world and talking to real Leliana but the player can potentially know something isn't quite right yet can still follow through. Since his references to "This definitely isn’t right!” is with regards to a conversation with Leliana makes me interpret not that this is a dream but perhaps the player may believe that something isn't right with her. This is where the varying perspectives comes into play. The player may still believe they are in the real world speaking with real Leliana but she isn't acting right and possibly possessed (explaining the weirdness) and seducing you. In this case Leliana is not in control of her body and being used against her will. She is not able to give consent as a demon is controlling her. He says that you "thought(or seemingly thought) you were sleeping with Leliana" in the real world despite knowing something isn't quite right. The players interpretation of what is actually going on plays a huge role into what potentially is going on and drastically changes the tone of this.
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Hm, hadn't read it like that, but that makes sense.
Does anyone know what happens if you set it up where The Warden romanced Leliana but had a human (as in no dark ritual) child with Morrigan?
I'm trying to understand how y'all keep saying y'all would be okay with this. I really...don't get it.
Shame they cut it. Sounded very interesting.
Games need more controversial stuff.
That's a big issue imo.
We are limited to what Gaider posted in his write up so you can't get the full explanation and thus interpretations of this scene occur but when he says the “Woah! This definitely isn’t right!” it happens in regard to him describing the seduction conversation. He claims you think you are in the real world and talking to real Leliana but the player can potentially know something isn't quite right yet can still follow through. Since his references to "This definitely isn’t right!” is with regards to a conversation with Leliana makes me interpret not that this is a dream but perhaps the player may believe that something isn't right with her. This is where the varying perspectives comes into play. The player may still believe they are in the real world speaking with real Leliana but she isn't acting right and possibly possessed (explaining the weirdness) and seducing you. In this case Leliana is not in control of her body and being used against her will. She is not able to give consent as a demon is controlling her. He says that you "thought(or seemingly thought) you were sleeping with Leliana" in the real world despite knowing something isn't quite right. The players interpretation of what is actually going on plays a huge role into what potentially is going on and drastically changes the tone of this.
Seriously, F you guys.
The rape bit IS NOT RIGHT.
The rest may be interesting, but the interesting bits stop SHORT of the implied rape.
^^^THIS. this is part of my issue. thank you for putting that into words that I couldn't find.
I think the main thing is that people knowing how the actual quest turns out within the game alters the perception of what is being said especially in regards to recognizing the demon and the Fade. The key points within the explanation seem to be that the "player wasn’t aware they were inside their head" thus thinks they are in Haven and "thought (or seemingly thought) you were sleeping with Leliana." The whole Fade thing seems like it may have been fairly hidden and the creepiness within the explanation seems to be primarily based around Leliana's questioning and seduction. The whole "thought (or seemingly thought) you were sleeping with Leliana." really makes me think the player may not recognize it's a demon/Fade but rather knowingly takes advantage of an altered out of character (possibly possessed) person. When you combine that with new players who don't perhaps have the same understanding of the Fade, demons and weird stuff maybe floating in the air makes it far beyond creepiness. As mentioned in his posts it looks like there was various interpretations of what is going from the peer review but with a large portion interpreting this subject having such serious issue in storytelling I'm definitely pleased this was dropped.
Eh, I knew from that start that we were in the fade/head.
So I knew that the demon was imitating Leliana.
Eh, I knew from that start that we were in the fade/head.
Not once did I thought that Leliana was real or possesed.
Did you actually read the write up on the blog? That was not the case in this early plot write up situation. You are mistaking the events of the actual game with this surrounding situation of the dropped plot.
my base disgust with it is that even in that role, Leli would not be able to consent. She wouldn't be able to consent. SHE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CONSENT. there is nothing interesting about that. nothing.
A demon taking the shape of Leliana wouldn't be Leliana. The real Leliana would still be unharmed.
Did you actually read the write up on the blog? That was not the case in this early plot write up situation. You are mistaking the events of the actual game with this surrounding situation of the dropped plot.
I see.
A demon taking the shape of Leliana wouldn't be Leliana. The real Leliana would still be unharmed.
A demon taking the shape of Leliana wouldn't be Leliana. The real Leliana would still be unharmed.
last post to you ever. a demon taking the shape of Leli doesn't mean her mind just somehow disappears. and then what after the fact? you free her from the demon's control and she is told what happened or even remembers sleeping with the Inquisitor and it wasn't her CHOICE. wth is wrong with you? how are you not seeing the problem here? you know what? don't answer that. I'm done and I def won't drag this out more with you or anyone else.
*facepalm*
Did you even read my post?
Taking shape and possessing are completely different things.
A demon taking the shape of Leliana wouldn't be Leliana. The real Leliana would still be unharmed.
Simply because it's not the real Leliana doesn't make the overarcing situation okay Leliana or not. You can potentially recognize this is wrong but could go down a path thinking you are sleeping with the real her despite recognizing this situation isn't right and she's not acting herself. If someone is clearly drunk and not acting themself taking advantage of that situation for sexual desires is not right no matter what they say. The fact that it's actually a demon and not her doesn't take away that you as the player thought you were sleeping with her despite knowledge that something isn't quite right. The character is objectified for the players sexual desires while the player is also getting used by the demon. Not to mention potential terrible followup in the real world of "I didn't know I was in the fade with a demon but you were acting weird so I slept with what I thought was you go on with your day"
Does anyone know what happens if you set it up where The Warden romanced Leliana but had a human (as in no dark ritual) child with Morrigan?
I heard it's kind of buggy where both of them think they are in a romance with you. This is just what I heard though so I can't guarantee it.
Simply because it's not the real Leliana doesn't make the overarcing situation okay Leliana or not. You can potentially recognize this is wrong but could go down a path thinking you are sleeping with the real her despite recognizing this situation isn't right and she's not acting herself. If someone is clearly drunk and not acting themself taking advantage of that situation for sexual desires is not right no matter what they say. The fact that it's actually a demon and not her doesn't take away that you as the player thought you were sleeping with her despite knowledge that something isn't quite right. The character is objectified for the players sexual desires and while also used by the demon. Not to mention potential terrible followup in the real world of "I didn't know I was in the fade with a demon but you were acting weird so I slept with what I thought was you go on with your day"
But the inquisitor isn't forcing themselves upon the demon!leliana right?
But the inquisitor isn't forcing themselves upon the demon!leliana right?
Forcing themselves upon someone doesn't mean everything. If someone cannot make proper judgment they cannot give consent. If someone is acting very strangely and out-of-character it can be seen the same way. Considering the character is said to think they are sleeping with the real her despite the weird creepiness that's going on it still clearly was viewed as wrong from the peer review whether demon or force was involved or not. I trust the writing staff review especially regarding that they know the full situation as a whole and clearly can make better judgement of what was going on versus us as a playerbase.
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