Maker, am I the only one who prefers Lelliana hardened
I loved how she interogates the i quisitor, when he/she is making moves towards josi.
You're not. I've seen others who prefer her that way too. I personally don't like it because it makes her unhappy, if what Cole says is any indication.
(paraphrased)
It makes the nightmares worse, but easier to push aside.
I don't like that she goes from 'murder is a tool' to 'murder is the only tool'. That's a step too far for me.
Not surprising she's exhausted, I'm still not entirely sure whether or not she actually has a sleeping quarters. Haven't seen one. Always assumed she just dozes off at her desk. :S
It's a mystery. I have to wonder where Josephine sleeps too... Probably at her desk too.
Maker, am I the only one who prefers Lelliana hardened
I loved how she interogates the i quisitor, when he/she is making moves towards josi.
ooops
I love how Leliana and Josie always stand close together. You can tell they understand and support each other.
*Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
You're not. I've seen others who prefer her that way too. I personally don't like it because it makes her unhappy, if what Cole says is any indication.
(paraphrased)
It makes the nightmares worse, but easier to push aside.
I don't like that she goes from 'murder is a tool' to 'murder is the only tool'. That's a step too far for me.
I didn't know he said that, but that's always been my reason for unhardening... no matter how effective she remains. She has to help herself before anyone else (some, I'm sure, will easily disagree.. maybe they see it as a worthy sacrifice).
"What use it to gain the whole world and then lose your soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Did he just quote the Bible?!! Kill it! Kill it with fire!" 
I didn't know he said that, but that's always been my reason for unhardening... no matter how effective she remains. She has to help herself before anyone else (some, I'm sure, will easily disagree.. maybe they see it as a worthy sacrifice).
"What use it to gain the whole world and then lose your soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Did he just quote the Bible?!! Kill it! Kill it with fire!"
Here's a compilation of Cole's thoughts. He mentions 'The Left Hand' a few times.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Here's a compilation of Cole's thoughts. He mentions 'The Left Hand' a few times.
I'll take your word for it.. don't want to listen now. I actually haven't seen much of Cole yet.. was planning to on the current playthrough.
I'll take your word for it.. don't want to listen now. I actually haven't seen much of Cole yet.. was planning to on the current playthrough.
He's really interesting with the others. He reveals their hidden pains out loud for everyone to hear, so it makes for interesting insight into the other companions.
The implications of his mind reading are another matter entirely, but on a meta level it's very good. 
I love how Leliana and Josie always stand close together. You can tell they understand and support each other.
I like these two together and would very much enjoy seeing more of their friendship, yes. Leliana's behavior and facial expressions during the conversation about how to solve Josephine's personal quest are quite telling, too: concern, affection, bemused exasperation with Josie's determination to solve things the "right" i.e. diplomatic way, but also respect for the fact that her friend does have the right to do things her way. It was touching. I agree with whoever called Josie a positive influence on Leliana's conscience, as a counter to Marjolaine's callous evil.
It's a shame our spymaster doesn't come to the Wicked Grace game. She'd have enjoyed watching Josie own the show ... and might have been the only one who could have give her friend a run for her money. Now I want a cutscene with Leliana and Josephine just having fun together.
I like these two together and would very much enjoy seeing more of their friendship, yes. Leliana's behavior and facial expressions during the conversation about how to solve Josephine's personal quest are quite telling, too: concern, affection, bemused exasperation with Josie's determination to solve things the "right" i.e. diplomatic way, but also respect for the fact that her friend does have the right to do things her way. It was touching. I agree with whoever called Josie a positive influence on Leliana's conscience, as a counter to Marjolaine's callous evil.
It's a shame our spymaster doesn't come to the Wicked Grace game. She'd have enjoyed watching Josie own the show ... and might have been the only one who could have give her friend a run for her money. Now I want a cutscene with Leliana and Josephine just having fun together.
I really wish we could have attended one of those 'interludes' Josephine organizes. For one I love tea parties, but a chance to talk to all our advisors at once, outside of work would have been great.
We get to play chess with Cullen and Wicked Grace with Josephine and others. Why can't we play with Leliana? She plays chess against Cullen if Dorian is not recruited.
A guessing game with her would have been fun. Riddles, word play, something like that. *sigh* Or have a knife throwing competition...
I really wish we could have attended one of those 'interludes' Josephine organizes. For one I love tea parties, but a chance to talk to all our advisors at once, outside of work would have been great.
As long as it's not too posh but a relaxed get-together, I agree that hanging out with all the advisors (and Cassandra, since I refuse to imagine the Inquisition leadership without her) for a change would be great.
As long as it's not too posh but a relaxed get-together, I agree that hanging out with all the advisors (and Cassandra, since I refuse to imagine the Inquisition leadership without her) for a change would be great.
I'm not sure Josephine understands the concept of 'relaxed', but I agree.
Although I would probably take something posh over this:
Probably...
I like these two together and would very much enjoy seeing more of their friendship, yes. Leliana's behavior and facial expressions during the conversation about how to solve Josephine's personal quest are quite telling, too: concern, affection, bemused exasperation with Josie's determination to solve things the "right" i.e. diplomatic way, but also respect for the fact that her friend does have the right to do things her way. It was touching. I agree with whoever called Josie a positive influence on Leliana's conscience, as a counter to Marjolaine's callous evil.
I agree, and it's one of the reasons I love their relationship so much (it's probably my favorite in the whole game). Josephine's codex entry is basically Leliana asking Cassandra to appoint her as ambassador for the Inquisition: she proceeds to list all her qualifications and then concludes with a more personal note, something like "if that's not enough, please consider she is also a trusted friend". I think at that point Leli needed a familiar, balancing presence in her life, someone whose "almost painful integrity" would definitely clash with her recent methods and force her to confront the issues she was already having long before the Conclave; someone who rejected the life Leliana had to fully embrace, and yet didn't judge her for it. She likes to tease Josie, to make fun of her constant worrying and looking for "needlessly" peaceful solutions but she's perfectly aware that the Inquisition needs that perspective as well. And Josephine may not be directly responsible for Leliana's (un)hardening but I love how the playful banter, the pranks, the tea parties (how upset does she get when she hears Josie is disappointed?), the glimpses of a lighter, "softer" Leliana we get when she's around her are always there, regardless of the path we choose for her.
I agree, and it's one of the reasons I love their relationship so much (it's probably my favorite in the whole game). Josephine's codex entry is basically Leliana asking Cassandra to appoint her as ambassador for the Inquisition: she proceeds to list all her qualifications and then concludes with a more personal note, something like "if that's not enough, please consider she is also a trusted friend". I think at that point Leli needed a familiar, balancing presence in her life, someone whose "almost painful integrity" would definitely clash with her recent methods and force her to confront the issues she was already having long before the Conclave; someone who rejected the life Leliana had to fully embrace, and yet didn't judge her for it. She likes to tease Josie, to make fun of her constant worrying and looking for "needlessly" peaceful solutions but she's perfectly aware that the Inquisition needs that perspective as well. And Josephine may not be directly responsible for Leliana's (un)hardening but I love how the playful banter, the pranks, the tea parties (how upset does she get when she hears Josie is disappointed?), the glimpses of a lighter, "softer" Leliana we get when she's around her are always there, regardless of the path we choose for her.
There's also that she essentially bullies Cullen into going, and the only reason she gives is that she doesn't want Josephine's feelings hurt. That means she probably doesn't think much of the 'interlude' either, but she goes anyway to humor her friend.
I like how she says 'merde!' when she finds out Josephine is 'deeply disappointed' (which is probably diplo speak for 'I'm heartbroken'). It's like she's saying 'What have I done? Noooooooo!' 
I still say dinner would go down better than tea. Get that lot drunk! Oh, to see Cullen, Leliana, Josephine and Cassandra all drunk at the dinner table...
I like how she says 'merde!' when she finds out Josephine is 'deeply disappointed' (which is probably diplo speak for 'I'm heartbroken'). It's like she's saying 'What have I done? Noooooooo!'
Best reaction ever, along with "Niceness before knives, Leliana! Haven't I always told you?" Of course the messengers are less frightened by her after Valence, the one who witnessed that scene must have told everyone that ambassador Montilyet can reduce the fearsome Spymaster to a big softie 
Best reaction ever, along with "Niceness before knives, Leliana! Haven't I always told you?"
Her imitation of Josie's voice is not half bad either. And the forced smile... How that messenger kept a straight face is beyond me.
I'd like to know what Allegra Clark thinks of it, she said she loves the banter with the other advisors but I wonder if she heard this bit
I'd like to know what Allegra Clark thinks of it, she said she loves the banter with the other advisors but I wonder if she heard this bit
I know she is on Twitter... we could ask her...
Maker, am I the only one who prefers Lelliana hardened
I loved how she interogates the i quisitor, when he/she is making moves towards josi.
Nope i adore hardened Leliana too. My canon universe has ruthless Leliana cutting a swath through the chantry as part of her much needed reforms, whilst her warden watches her back.
I know she is on Twitter... we could ask her...
I'm not on Twitter, but if I ever find the courage to send her a message (possibly through Tumblr) I'll ask 
How exactly do you get messengers to talk to Leliana at Skyhold?
Every time I go to see her she's either walking around or sitting alone. Makes me think I'm the only person brave enough to talk to her (besides Josephine and Cullen)..
And Josephine may not be directly responsible for Leliana's (un)hardening but I love how the playful banter, the pranks, the tea parties (how upset does she get when she hears Josie is disappointed?), the glimpses of a lighter, "softer" Leliana we get when she's around her are always there, regardless of the path we choose for her.
That is an angle I had not considered yet. It makes sense, and it takes some of the worry-weight off the issue of whether "softening" her a little again might not stick, or whether it's too simple, too unrealistic. We're not alone in influencing her, silly of me to not see that -- of course the person who's likely her closest friend among the Inquisition exerts a pull as well. Cheers for pointing this out.
As for the messengers, I've never seen them with anyone other than Josie or the creature researcher, either.
To get the messengers to trigger, try going to see your companions, hang around them for a minute or so. If nothing happens, move on to the next. You should eventually encounter a messenger talking to them. Then go see the person on the other end of the convo. Say you find a messenger talking to Dorian, who says something about Josephine, then go see Josephine next to hear the follow-up.
It's very finicky. I do it when I'm waiting for resource collection quests to finish.
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