15912 réponses à ce sujet

[CrimsonN7]

Maker, am I the only one who prefers Lelliana hardened
I loved how she interogates the i quisitor, when he/she is making moves towards josi.

 

Oh defo not, much prefer hardened Lels, even though many here love to guilt trip over this stance.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

It is fun how you talk about invincible pc but ignore her status in dai.

It's funny that nobody knows what the hell 'Mary Sue' means anymore. Makes it exceptionally difficult to take you seriously.

[GenericEnemy]

It's funny that nobody knows what the hell 'Mary Sue' means anymore. Makes it exceptionally difficult to take you seriously.

You ever did in the first place?

[Milan92]

Even if your inquisitor doesn't like Leliana, it would be pretty stupid to upset her. Pissing off your spymaster is usually a quick way into an early grave.

 

Crusader Kings 2 agrees

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's funny that nobody knows what the hell 'Mary Sue' means anymore. Makes it exceptionally difficult to take you seriously.

Not rly she is pretty much mary sue in dai there is a lot traits that prove that for example like bending reality to her will (1 example i already pointed here) another her epilogue when pretty much makes peoples accept mages (rly?).Then we have thing like game trying to paint her as super genius or birds loving her when they hate everyone else.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

1. If she was a Mary Sue she would have no flaws. We've been discussing her flaws for 365 bloody pages.

2. If she was a Mary Sue, everyone in the story would love her because what is there to hate? This girl is, like, the best thing since sliced bread.

3. If she was a Mary Sue, we wouldn't be able to change her outlook, because what is there to change? She's perf, no one knows better than her.

4. If she was a Mary Sue, she'd solve all our problems and always know what to do. She doesn't. Hell, if you don't do her personal quest and make her Divine, the Chantry goes to ruin.

I've never heard the term applied to a character that deserves it. Not. Bloody. Once. In fact, I reckon it's pretty bloody insulting to the writers to slap it on every character you don't like. Which is basically all it means now. That's all you're saying when you use it. They're much better than that. It has no place outside of self-insert fanfiction.

If I never hear someone utter it again, it will be too soon.

[TheKomandorShepard]

1. If she was a Mary Sue she would have no flaws. We've been discussing her flaws for 365 bloody pages.

2. If she was a Mary Sue, everyone would love her because what is there to hate?

3. If she was a Mary Sue, we wouldn't be able to change her outlook, because what is there to change? She's perf, no one knows better than her.

4. If she was a Mary Sue, she'd solve all our problems and always know what to do.

I've never heard the term applied to a character that deserves it. Not. Bloody. Once. In fact, I reckon it's pretty bloody insulting to the writers to slap it on every character you don't like. Which is basically all it means now. They're much better than that.

If I never hear someone utter it again, it will be too soon.

1.What are her flaws then besides crisis of faith (what isn't rly flaw)?Also mary sure doesn't mean character don't have flaws but mostly are ignored or small.

2.Is there even 1 negative comment about leliana in game (outside inq who still bends to her will)?Hell even letter mentions that birds that hate everyone else love her.

3.This isn't rly even a condition of being or not being mary sue pretty much best shown in that she is able talk her way in divine epilgue if changed and every epilogue has her making peoples accept mages what is ridiculous.In fact only negative thing in epilogue she can possible get is if you don't do her quest.

4.And she doesn't? she practically can talk her opposition down and remove complex problems concerning mages and peoples hatred and fear toward them turning that into acceptance making her epilogue fit rather disney production rather than dark fantasy.

[Korva]

I dislike the term "Mary Sue" in no small part because it's often applied much more readily to women or minority characters. And, when it comes to computer games, to NPCs. Most of Bioware's protagonists are huge power fantasies, often literally the only one who can save the world ... but because we get to identify with and control those power fantasies, we tend to like them instead of calling them out.

 

But, back to Leliana. If we could have more advisor/companion interactions in Skyhold, which companions would you like to see Leliana with, and what would they do or talk about? Do they get up each other's grill or do they bond over something? Does she change her mind on them over time?

[introverted_assassin]

Not rly my inquisitor would pretty much sentenced to death her after that threat (if not her mary sue status)

what did mama talk about in the wee hours of the morn? example.

[MissDragon]

Cute Leliana.......... And from the darkness into light a rose bloomed. The world was reborn.

 

[Han Shot First]

I dislike the term "Mary Sue" in no small part because it's often applied much more readily to women or minority characters. 

 

The only actual example of a Mary Sue I can think of offhand, is Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation. He even fits the original definition of Mary Sue, in that the character is Gene Rodenberry's self-insert.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I dislike the term "Mary Sue" in no small part because it's often applied much more readily to women or minority characters. And, when it comes to computer games, to NPCs. Most of Bioware's protagonists are huge power fantasies, often literally the only one who can save the world ... but because we get to identify with and control those power fantasies, we tend to like them instead of calling them out.

 

But, back to Leliana. If we could have more advisor/companion interactions in Skyhold, which companions would you like to see Leliana with, and what would they do or talk about? Do they get up each other's grill or do they bond over something? Does she change her mind on them over time?

Cus mary sue is term applying to women for men term is marty stue if i remember correctly.Power fantasy is one thing because pretty much in every game we have breaks from reality more or less ,power fantasy to ridiculous degree pretty much ends on marry sue/marty sue if pretty much you can talk everyone to accept love and tolerance and have world peace well that is too much...

[CrimsonN7]

1.What are her flaws then besides crisis of faith (what isn't rly flaw)?Also mary sure doesn't mean character don't have flaws but mostly are ignored or small.

2.Is there even 1 negative comment about leliana in game (outside inq who still bends to her will)?Hell even letter mentions that birds that hate everyone else love her.

 

 

Yunno you say such things and you make me wonder did you pay attention to conversations at all. Example, Vivienne had many negative things to say about her when you mention her as being a possibru Divine, "a well meaning fool" and reasons for why she believes this. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yunno you say such things and you make me wonder did you pay attention to conversations at all. Example, Vivienne had many negative things to say about her when you mention her as being a possibru Divine, "a well meaning fool" and reasons for why she believes this. 

Oh sorry we have 1 negative comment from viviene (who insults pretty much almost everyone) who says 1 bad thing about person she don't want to become divine and points things (very valid concerns) that her epiloguge completely ignores.

[Milan92]

1 negative comment already dissolves her Mary Sue status. If she truly was a Mary Sue then she would only get praise.

 

Just for the record, I think that her unhardend Divine ending is Mary Sue-ish, but that can be avoided by simply not making her divine.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Just for the record, I think that her unhardend Divine ending is Mary Sue-ish, but that can be avoided by simply not making her divine.

 

That sums it up for me. I like Leliana, but that ending is pure bullshit and pretty much a giant middle-finger to the story.

[CrimsonN7]

Oh sorry we have 1 negative comment from viviene (who insults pretty much almost everyone) who says 1 bad thing about person she don't want to become divine and points things (very valid concerns) that her epiloguge completely ignores.

 

You asked for one example I provided. A mary-sue has to be universally liked by all, she is not, stop using the word incorrectly plox.

[Master Shiori]

To get the messengers to trigger, try going to see your companions, hang around them for a minute or so. If nothing happens, move on to the next. You should eventually encounter a messenger talking to them. Then go see the person on the other end of the convo. Say you find a messenger talking to Dorian, who says something about Josephine, then go see Josephine next to hear the follow-up.

 

It's very finicky. I do it when I'm waiting for resource collection quests to finish.

Thank you for the tip.

 

I'll definitely try it out next time. Can't get enough of listening to Leliana talk.

[Master Shiori]

Just for the record, I think that her unhardend Divine ending is Mary Sue-ish, but that can be avoided by simply not making her divine.

I almost never let her become the Divine.

 

She either remains as my spymaster or, most likely, leaves to be together with my Warden.

 

Even if not romanced, she's too valuable to the Inquisition to lose. And I'm not even sure who's qualified enough to take over her position..

[TheKomandorShepard]

1 negative comment already dissolves her Mary Sue status. If she truly was a Mary Sue then she would only get praise.

 

Just for the record, I think that her unhardend Divine ending is Mary Sue-ish, but that can be avoided by simply not making her divine.

Being loved by everyone isn't requirement but is in fact mary sue trait  , mary sure is rather poorly writen that is painted as perfect (not necessarily flawless but flaws are ignored or small) in fact it is character so good and problem-solving that is extremely unrealistic.And well everyone outside vivine have good opinion on her not mention birds i mentioned that hate everyone else but love her what in fact is very mary suish portrait despite vivine don't see her as divine or not even that just her solution on mages. 

 

Hardly only unhardend ending considering that she pretty much in every ending solves very complex problem with mages turning it into disney ending making peoples accept them what is utterly ridiculous.

 

 

You asked for one example I provided. A mary-sue has to be universally liked by all, she is not, stop using the word incorrectly plox.

And you gave me one , but as above.Hardly it is extreme for example if every character in-universe but one loved certain character it still would make that character marry sue because it still it would be badly writen "perfect" character.Not to mention that viv don't necessarily dislike her, vivine just don't like leliana solution on mage problem pretty much like cassandra that don't like leliana solution but still respects and likes her.

[DeathScepter]

leliana is a mary sue. lets get over it.

[CrimsonN7]

 

And you gave me one , but as above.Hardly it is extreme for example if every character in-universe but one loved certain character it still would make that character marry sue because it still it would be badly writen "perfect" character.Not to mention that viv don't necessarily dislike her, vivine just don't like leliana solution on mage problem pretty much like cassandra that don't like leliana solution but still respects and likes her.

 

Erm right Leliana is badly written, you're entitled to your opinion, it's bad but you're entitled to it. Leliana is far from perfect, you've met Leliana right? You hate her that's fine, not everyone will like a character but calling her that lol pls, so many are misusing that term on these boards.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Erm right Leliana is badly written, you're entitled to your opinion, it's bad but you're entitled to it. Leliana is far from perfect, you've met Leliana right? You hate her that's fine, not everyone will like a character but calling her that lol pls, so many are misusing that term on these boards.

Yep she is and im not talking about her story arc because it is matter of opinion if it was good or bad but character overall painted in story.

 

I love how fans can't stand criticism toward favorite character so they pull hater card i was accused by leliana , morrigan and hawke fans despite i even liked morrigan in dao and i protected hawke when it comes about certain things.

 

Yes im not big leliana fan but i don't hate her i hate talis and in fact i can tell you that in dao leliana wasn't mary sue but after that sadly writers turned her into mary sue and i pointed why she is one.