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[Fiery Phoenix]

Even so, it's nice to see two women being close friends. There aren't many strong female friendships in games.

Indeed. The only other one I can think of right now is Lara and Sam from the Tomb Raider reboot. There really needs to be more of these.

[Korva]

Varric says something to that effect if you ask about her. 'If you see Josephine running around in a panic, she's fine. I think she enjoys it, actually.'

 

 

Ha! I never heard most of these lines, he pretty much said the same thing about the advisors from start to finish. Varric, why are you holding out on me?

 

Some of his opinions about Cullen are hilarious, too.

[GrinningRogue]

Indeed. The only other one I can think of right now is Lara and Sam from the Tomb Raider reboot. There really needs to be more of these.

 

There's Morrigan and Warden friendship (if they had a friendship). It ended with kinda horribly though. Either she went off somewhere, basically wanting the warden to write her off as dead even when they part on good terms, or stab-stab.

 

I'm still not over that.

[introverted_assassin]

Leli and Josie seem to exchange the understanding look a lot. Like the 'Oh lawd Varric I know what this means' upon hearing about Hawke.



I really love the sisterly bond they set up with these two. One of the best BrOTPs in this game. Glad they went that way with them, instead of the other speculations before release. :S

i loved this moment. when they looked at each other. it was such a "GIRLLLLLLLLLL did you hear that?" bonding thing and i'm completely here for it

[LadyStoneheart]

Oh, sorry if I sounded like I was taking a shot at you or something. It's just something I see a lot, especially in regards to Leliana, that bothers me and I wanted to get off my chest. Wasn't pointing a finger at you or anything.

 

We had more or less the same reaction to different things then. No problem

 

It would have probably worked for a world state in which Leliana isn't romanced, but that sounds like an amount of work that they didn't deem necessary so we got what we got.

 

I see it working just fine without a romanced Warden.

 

Yes, that's what I was talking about.

[jlb524]

Even so, it's nice to see two women being close friends. There aren't many strong female friendships in games.

 

There aren't really any strong female relationships in general (including romantic) in this game/series, excluding ones that involve the PC.

[Aimi]

Indeed. The only other one I can think of right now is Lara and Sam from the Tomb Raider reboot. There really needs to be more of these.

They're not just friends.

[Fiery Phoenix]

There aren't really any strong female relationships in general (including romantic) in this game/series, excluding ones that involve the PC.

Probably because everything tends to be written around the PC. I always like it when there is a sense of close relationship (romantic or otherwise) between two NPCs, but it's usually treated as an afterthought because that kind of focus is often given to the PC.

 

They're not just friends.

That is as of yet unconfirmed, to the best of my knowledge. I know her writer has expressed interest in the subject/possibility, but she never directly gave anything away.

 

Lara is totally gay in my headcanon, though. It actually makes the story feel more 'natural' in a narrative sense.

[Aimi]

That is as of yet unconfirmed, to the best of my knowledge. I know her writer has expressed interest in the subject/possibility, but she never directly gave anything away.
 
Lara is totally gay in my headcanon, though. It actually makes the story feel more 'natural' in a narrative sense.

Nope. Confirmed it last year in the comics, which Gail Simone used to write before Rhi Pratchett took over.

[thats1evildude]

I just think a sisterly bond between them is so much more meaningful for both of them. Not all bisexuals have to be intimately involved, srsly.

Are you telling me that pornography and fan fiction have steered me wrong?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Nope. Confirmed it last year in the comics, which Gail Simone used to write before Rhi Pratchett took over.

Interesting. I haven't read the comics so I'm naturally clueless about them. All I know is they're supposed to bridge the gap into Rise of the Tomb Raider.

[Korva]

The issue of "close friends or lovers" can be ... dicey, with two female characters. There are people who have huge "NO ****** JUST FRIENDS!" denial-issues, even when the subtext isn't subtext anymore but hits you over the head with a clue-by-four. And there are rabid "shippers" who don't see any worth in any relationship that doesn't revolve around violently mashing squishy bits together, no matter how out of character that would be.

 

Both relationship types are heavily under-represented, though. There should be room for both, and respect for both.

[Aimi]

Interesting. I haven't read the comics so I'm naturally clueless on them. All I know is they're supposed to bridge the story into Rise of the Tomb Raider.

They're all right. I've been a bit bad about keeping up. The arcs are typical comic-book writing, but the stories overall are worth it for Jonah and for S.S. Endurance.

[Fiery Phoenix]

They're all right. I've been a bit bad about keeping up. The arcs are typical comic-book writing, but the stories overall are worth it for Jonah and for S.S. Endurance.

I plan to give them a read before the sequel is out this fall. I'm usually iffy when it comes to game comics in general (didn't like the ME ones at all) but I'm making an exception for this one.

[Nightingale]

The issue of "close friends or lovers" can be ... dicey, with two female characters. There are people who have huge "NO ****** JUST FRIENDS!" denial-issues, even when the subtext isn't subtext anymore but hits you over the head with a clue-by-four. And there are rabid "shippers" who don't see any worth in any relationship that doesn't revolve around violently mashing squishy bits together, no matter how out of character that would be.

 

Both relationship types are heavily under-represented, though. There should be room for both, and respect for both.

 

*cough* Xena's "subtext" *cough*

 

But yes, I'd like to see more platonic friendships that don't involve the PC. I admit to being one of the ones kind of hoping Leliana and Josie would get together before DAI actually came out. I'm really glad they didn't now, of course, and I'm glad Leliana's not a LI either. I think getting into another romantic relationship like that is the last thing she needs for where she is during DAI and it's nice seeing two bisexual women capable of being friends without...well, your lovely wording

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Yeah, Leliana really doesn't seem like she's in much of a position for romantic entanglements in DAI, anyway. In a Warden-romanced state she's loyal to the Warden, in an import where the Warden romanced her but died she's still evidently hung up on them to boot, and in a non-romanced import (and the other two, as well.) she's just kinda distant, different, not really in a place to open up her heart to anyone, etc. Josephine says it herself, she's closed-off even to her, her best friend, more so than she ever has been before anyway.

If a Leliana/Josephine romance did spring up in a world state where neither of them were romanced, I'd feel it'd be a bit...out of place. Not to mention there would be so many prerequisites for it to actually occur, and given other examples it'd probably bug out anyway and make everyone angry. Hardly seems worth it.

[Nightingale]

If things had happened differently in DAI and had Leliana not been in such an understandably dark place, I think it could've worked. But you're right, as it is, it'd be out of place and you'd have to jump through hoops just to get it to work from a technical standpoint. I'd actually hoped (or rather, would've been okay with) them getting together in certain dead romanced Warden world states just because unhardened Leliana's DAO end slide was so brutal I'd have liked to see her move on. Again, this was all before we knew much about the actual situation. I'm glad things happened as they did; that she had such a steadfast friend and she found herself without too much outside influence this time.

 

Besides, can you imagine poor Cullen? First Amell/Surana, then this? He's already a bit left out with Josie and Leliana being so close as it is

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I would have liked to see Leliana move on a bit in a Ultimate Sacrifice, romanced Warden world state as well, but...everyone gets over those kinds of things differently, and given Leliana's tendency to really latch on to people she cares about, it isn't surprising she hasn't been able to move on. The Warden seems to be the one person she truly felt she found her place with, and them dying seems like it'd just burn her out.

 

Definitely the impression I got from importing that scenario, anyway. 

[Basement Cat]

If things had happened differently in DAI and had Leliana not been in such an understandably dark place, I think it could've worked. But you're right, as it is, it'd be out of place and you'd have to jump through hoops just to get it to work from a technical standpoint. I'd actually hoped (or rather, would've been okay with) them getting together in certain dead romanced Warden world states just because unhardened Leliana's DAO end slide was so brutal I'd have liked to see her move on. Again, this was all before we knew much about the actual situation. I'm glad things happened as they did; that she had such a steadfast friend and she found herself without too much outside influence this time.

 

Besides, can you imagine poor Cullen? First Amell/Surana, then this? He's already a bit left out with Josie and Leliana being so close as it is

I don't really see Leliana and Josephine as lovers. While Josephine has many qualities Leliana values (smart, mischievous, etc.), she's too 'clean'. Leliana has a dark side that Josephine might not be able to keep in check.

 

Notice during Josephine's personal quest that Leliana offers an alternative suggestion in spite of Josephine's protests. I get the feeling that, while she respects her greatly, Leliana doesn't admire Josephine the way she did Marjolaine and the Warden. That's a key component in Leliana's romance path.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I don't really see Leliana and Josephine as lovers. While Josephine has many qualities Leliana values (smart, mischievous, etc.), she's too 'clean'. Leliana has a dark side that Josephine might not be able to keep in check.

 

Notice during Josephine's personal quest that Leliana offers an alternative suggestion in spite of Josephine's protests. I get the feeling that, while she respects her greatly, Leliana doesn't admire Josephine the way she did Marjolaine and the Warden. That's a key component in Leliana's romance path.

 

That too. Josephine has always seemed like someone who could appeal to the better side of Leliana's conscience, but she probably can't sympathize with her or understand what's going through her head very well, because she's likely the most 'normal' person we've encountered in the DAverse so far. 

 

Which is why Leliana seeing her as her innocent younger sister fits perfectly. 

[Nightingale]

I agree, Snook. I think she did sort of move on in the end, but the Warden will definitely always be a major part of her life if romanced. Of course, I've yet to harden her in DAI (because I'm weak and like seeing her happy no matter what kind of Inky I'm playing ) so perhaps it's different if she's not softened.

 

I don't really see Leliana and Josephine as lovers. While Josephine has many qualities Leliana values (smart, mischievous, etc.), she's too 'clean'. Leliana has a dark side that Josephine might not be able to keep in check.

 

Notice during Josephine's personal quest that Leliana offers an alternative suggestion in spite of Josephine's protests. I get the feeling that, while she respects her greatly, Leliana doesn't admire Josephine the way she did Marjolaine and the Warden. That's a key component in Leliana's romance path.

 

You know, that was my main objection to Leliana and Alistair being romantically involved. It just doesn't seem fair to either of them to me. Obviously he's not the pacifist Josephine is, but I think the way he and Leliana see things is just so fundamentally different. I think Josephine ended up being much the same way.

 

Anyway, I'm happy with how things turned out. She manages to be a light in Leliana's life, even if she doesn't hold such sway over her, the way Marjolaine, the Warden and even Justinia did without it being romantic.

[Basement Cat]

That too. Josephine has always seemed like someone who could appeal to the better side of Leliana's conscience, but she probably can't sympathize with her or understand what's going through her head very well, because she's likely the most 'normal' person we've encountered in the DAverse so far. 

 

Which is why Leliana seeing her as her innocent younger sister fits perfectly. 

That's why I don't like her romance that much. It's sweet and all, but Josephine is a stable and healthy person. Everyone else is a shipwreck of issues.

[Fiery Phoenix]

That too. Josephine has always seemed like someone who could appeal to the better side of Leliana's conscience, but she probably can't sympathize with her or understand what's going through her head very well, because she's likely the most 'normal' person we've encountered in the DAverse so far. 

 

Which is why Leliana seeing her as her innocent younger sister fits perfectly. 

Leliana still needs that type of person in her life, IMO. Josie sort of complements her in more ways than one.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

You know, that was my main objection to Leliana and Alistair being romantically involved. It just doesn't seem fair to either of them to me. Obviously he's not the pacifist Josephine is, but I think the way he and Leliana see things is just so fundamentally different. I think Josephine ended up being much the same way.

 

I kinda drop that pairing in the 'Stuff that the Darkspawn Chronicles did that probably wouldn't happen' box. Right on top of Wade being a Desire Demon. :S

 

 

That's why I don't like her romance that much. It's sweet and all, but Josephine is a stable and healthy person. Everyone else is a shipwreck of issues.

 

Agreed. The biggest reveal of her character arc is that she accidentally pushed someone down a flight of stairs once. I mean...okay. Kind of...small issues compared to everyone else here.

 

Leliana for instance is someone who's mental state you could dig into for days, but Josephine's just too well adjusted for my liking. Odd as that sounds. :S

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Leliana still needs that type of person in her life, IMO. Josie sort of complements her in more ways than one.

 

Oh, I agree. I've always seen her as the little person standing on one shoulder representing the good side of her conscience, whereas Marjolaine's lasting influence/the bad side of Justinia's influence are standing on the other, barking things in her ear. The Warden and Inquisitor could be on either side too.

 

I imagine my Warden's going to have to give Josephine a hug whenever she returns for helping keep Leliana at least somewhat grounded. :S