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[Basement Cat]

I agree, Snook. I think she did sort of move on in the end, but the Warden will definitely always be a major part of her life if romanced. Of course, I've yet to harden her in DAI (because I'm weak and like seeing her happy no matter what kind of Inky I'm playing ) so perhaps it's different if she's not softened.

 

 

You know, that was my main objection to Leliana and Alistair being romantically involved. It just doesn't seem fair to either of them to me. Obviously he's not the pacifist Josephine is, but I think the way he and Leliana see things is just so fundamentally different. I think Josephine ended up being much the same way.

 

Anyway, I'm happy with how things turned out. She manages to be a light in Leliana's life, even if she doesn't hold such sway over her, the way Marjolaine, the Warden and even Justinia did without it being romantic.

That thing from Darkspawn Chronicles? Even if it happened, I don't think it would have lasted long. They're both dependent types and it's just not a good mix. Neither would be able to fulfill the other's needs (not like that!) in the long term. Alistair is too innocent for Leliana and she is too dark for him, regardless of 'hard' or 'soft' in both cases.

 

Alistair spent most of his life in the Chantry being trained as a Templar and got his first taste of betrayal at Ostagar and is generally naive. Compare to any Warden background:

 

Dalish: Friend dies and turned away from the clan. (abandoned, loss)

City Elf: The wedding 'party'. (hunted, loss)

Human noble: stabbed in the back by a family friend, whole family murdered, including a young nephew. (betrayed, loss and hunted)

Mage: Demons and Templars are a constant source of danger, the Jowan's stunt. (hunted and betrayed)

Dwarf commoner: working for a crime boss, living in a slum and having to worry about other casteless.(hunted and betrayed)

Dwarf Noble: Big messed up family. Intrigues, plots of murder and all that. (betrayed and hunted)

 

Leliana used to deal in manipulation and betrayal and then got a taste of her own medicine, then she had to flee (betrayed and hunted). Every Warden background can relate to that in some way.

 

Alistair felt betrayed by Loghain, sure, but he didn't know the guy. The Warden always loses someone important. They are in a much better position to relate to Leliana than Alistair is.

[Basement Cat]

I kinda drop that pairing in the 'Stuff that the Darkspawn Chronicles did that probably wouldn't happen' box. Right on top of Wade being a Desire Demon. :S

 

 

 

Agreed. The biggest reveal of her character arc is that she accidentally pushed someone down a flight of stairs once. I mean...okay. Kind of...small issues compared to everyone else here.

 

Leliana for instance is someone who's mental state you could dig into for days, but Josephine's just too well adjusted for my liking. Odd as that sounds. :S

Of course, if this were real life it would be a very serious issue. Killing someone, even someone who is trying to kill you, even by accident, is pretty traumatic. Justifications only go so far.

 

Oh, I agree. I've always seen her as the little person standing on one shoulder representing the good side of her conscience, whereas Marjolaine's lasting influence/the bad side of Justinia's influence are standing on the other, barking things in her ear. The Warden and Inquisitor could be on either side too.

 

I imagine my Warden's going to have to give Josephine a hug whenever she returns for helping keep Leliana at least somewhat grounded. :S

Someone needs to draw this. Angel Josephine and Devil Marjolaine on Leliana's shoulders. With Justinia constantly switching sides. Then a little Warden lands on her head and makes everyone else shut up. 

[Nightingale]

Exactly my thoughts. My biggest thing is that she's so much darker than him; that lack of understanding just would not end well. For either of them.

 

I kinda drop that pairing in the 'Stuff that the Darkspawn Chronicles did that probably wouldn't happen' box. Right on top of Wade being a Desire Demon. :S

 

 

 

Agreed. The biggest reveal of her character arc is that she accidentally pushed someone down a flight of stairs once. I mean...okay. Kind of...small issues compared to everyone else here.

 

Leliana for instance is someone who's mental state you could dig into for days, but Josephine's just too well adjusted for my liking. Odd as that sounds. :S

 

I-...Wait, what? Wade...Desire Demon...Jeez, I should go play Darkspawn Chronicles because I do not remember that at all

 

Perhaps an unpopular opinion here, but I actually rather liked Josie's romance. I agree, it's not my particular brand of crazy cup of tea, either, but I thought it was a nice change from the typical doom and gloom of Bioware romances. I like the complexities of, say, Leliana more (and purple!Hawke and Isabela were such a beautiful disaster), but some variety is nice.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I'd be interested to see how the Leliana/Alistair relationship in The Darkspawn Chronicles even came about in the first place. I mean, I sure as hell can't see Alistair going up and flirting with her, making any moves at all. Most of his passes at the Warden ended with him about to run the other way, fearing getting clubbed over the head. Unless awkwardly blubbering counts. Which it does for some, anyway. 

 

And Leliana probably wouldn't either, for aforementioned reasons. And would Alistair really be able to help her find her way when she's slipping, deal with Marjolaine, etc? That was what the Warden needed to do before Leliana fell completely in love. Can't see Alistair doing that, and neither of them are interested in mere flings.

[Nightingale]

I'd be interested to see how the Leliana/Alistair relationship in The Darkspawn Chronicles even came about in the first place. I mean, I sure as hell can't see Alistair going up and flirting with her, making any moves at all. Most of his passes at the Warden ended with him about to run the other way, fearing getting clubbed over the head. Unless awkwardly blubbering counts. Which it does for some, anyway. 

 

And Leliana probably wouldn't either, for aforementioned reasons. 

 

Aha, can you imagine him trying to give her the rose?

 

Wasn't it just a rumour anyway? Like the pigeon population suddenly dropping in Ferelden in DA2. Okay bad example that probably happened. It's been a while, but I thought it was just a codex entry implying their relationship, rather than anything really shown.

[Basement Cat]

Exactly my thoughts. My biggest thing is that she's so much darker than him; that lack of understanding just would not end well. For either of them.

 

 

I-...Wait, what? Wade...Desire Demon...Jeez, I should go play Darkspawn Chronicles because I do not remember that at all

 

Perhaps an unpopular opinion here, but I actually rather liked Josie's romance. I agree, it's not my particular brand of crazy cup of tea, either, but I thought it was a nice change from the typical doom and gloom of Bioware romances. I like the complexities of, say, Leliana more (and purple!Hawke and Isabela were such a beautiful disaster), but some variety is nice.

Oh, Josephine's romance is fine. It's just that compared to the stuff we're used to, she's pretty tame.

 

We're used to insane roller coasters and she's a carousel with pretty painted horses and cute music. The contrast is pretty startling.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Aha, can you imagine him trying to give her the rose?

 

Wasn't it just a rumour anyway? Like the pigeon population suddenly dropping in Ferelden in DA2. Okay bad example that probably happened. It's been a while, but I thought it was just a codex entry implying their relationship, rather than anything really shown.

 

Yeah, there was never anything implicit. 

 

Probably was just gossip, in retrospect. The gossipmongers had to pair him with somebody, and I reckon it'd sooner be Leliana than Morrigan. :S

[Nightingale]

I dunno, didn't someone mention he and Morrigan bicker "like an old married couple" at some point? Or perhaps that was the Warden. She's probably the only one that could get away with it without Morrigan setting them on fire.

 

Oh, Josephine's romance is fine. It's just that compared to the stuff we're used to, she's pretty tame.

 

We're used to insane roller coasters and she's a carousel with pretty painted horses and cute music. The contrast is pretty startling.

 

Oh definitely. And what a great way to describe things

[Aimi]

I-...Wait, what? Wade...Desire Demon...Jeez, I should go play Darkspawn Chronicles because I do not remember that at all

Because it didn't happen.

...Herren was the desire demon, not Wade.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I dunno, didn't someone mention he and Morrigan bicker "like an old married couple" at some point? Or perhaps that was the Warden. She's probably the only one that could get away with it without Morrigan setting them on fire.

 

Don't remember that, but it's totally something my Warden would do. If only interactive banter existed back then, she'd totally pitch in to get under their skin. I remember the Inquisitor could tell Morrigan and Solas they'd make a 'cute couple.' :S

 

 

Because it didn't happen.

...Herren was the desire demon, not Wade.

 

D'oh, I knew it was one of them. :S

[Nightingale]

Because it didn't happen.

...Herren was the desire demon, not Wade.

 

Haha that makes only slightly more sense (why wouldn't it want an eccentric armoursmith and his failing shop?), though I don't know if I've ever seen a demon quite so...irritated before

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I've only played the Darkspawn Chronicles once, ages ago, anyway. Killing everyone I know and love loses its novelty pretty fast. :S

[Nightingale]

Yeah, I don't remember much of it. Seeing the other side and how things could've been is interesting, but I'm with you on that.

 

Don't remember that, but it's totally something my Warden would do. If only interactive banter existed back then, she'd totally pitch in to get under their skin. I remember the Inquisitor could tell Morrigan and Solas they'd make a 'cute couple.' :S

 

I think it was a banter but I couldn't tell you with whom; could easily see my Warden doing it to annoy them too, though

 

Bet Solas just loooved that. I saw the option but I don't think I chose it. It's less fun without an accompanying "Morrigan greatly disapproves."

[AWTEW]

I would have liked to see Leliana move on a bit in a Ultimate Sacrifice, romanced Warden world state as well, but...everyone gets over those kinds of things differently, and given Leliana's tendency to really latch on to people she cares about, it isn't surprising she hasn't been able to move on. The Warden seems to be the one person she truly felt she found her place with, and them dying seems like it'd just burn her out.
 
Definitely the impression I got from importing that scenario, anyway.

The impression I got from The US playthrough, is that the wardens death  was the straw that broke the camals back.

I dunno, didn't someone mention he and Morrigan bicker "like an old married couple" at some point? Or perhaps that was the Warden. She's probably the only one that could get away with it without Morrigan setting them on fire.
 

 
Oh definitely. And what a great way to describe things

In a playthrough of DAI where neither is romanced, and Alstair is a warden, it's implied they care for eachother. Well at least with Alistair.

[Korva]

I think Josie's innocence is bit overstated. The woman is a master of the "Game" just like Leliana is, and the "Game" is a cesspit of Blight-tainted vipers where no atrocity is shunned as long as it succeeds and you look good in a poncy dress while committing it. She may likely be the nicest "player" in the known world, but she is still a "player" and knows all the tricks, has to know all the tricks -- even if only to be able to recognize them so they don't destroy her and those she cares/works for. Diplomacy will always be her first choice, yes. Thing is, she's lucky enough to be in a position where it can be her first choice because others can do the dirtier work.

 

Josie has to weigh her own values and beliefs against the demands of her (our) goals and the methods of whoever she is dealing with. That's a demanding task in and of itself. "Innocence", to me, carries a ring of child-like naivete and ignorance, and that's definitely not a description for anyone with her rank and expertise. I'd prefer to describe her as ... ethical, I think? And possessing "painful integrity", which is what Leliana was looking for when picking an ambassador.

 

Regarding Leliana, I very much hope she does move on from the Warden's death and maybe find someone else (and my Warden would explicitly tell Leliana the same, if she was able to voice an opinion), but with the way things turned out for her in the years since, I doubt she's had a chance to even think about it. First there was the shock and grief, and then Justinia called and Leliana had to re-hardened herself. A deeply trusting and "pure" bond would have gotten in the way of that, as well as given enemies a weakness to exploit that the new Left Hand could not afford.

[Miss Quisitor]

Yes tonight Josephine , yes tonight. To play 'the game'  

[LadyStoneheart]

One of the few things I remember from Darkspawn Chronicles is Leliana still wearing her Chantry robes during the final battle in Denerim.

Seriously, Alistair? You go fight the Archdemon in a fancy heavy armor but can't bother to get decent equipment for your alleged lover? I'm surprised she even managed to reach the roof of Fort Drakon. This relationship was doomed from the start 

 

Notice during Josephine's personal quest that Leliana offers an alternative suggestion in spite of Josephine's protests. I get the feeling that, while she respects her greatly, Leliana doesn't admire Josephine the way she did Marjolaine and the Warden. That's a key component in Leliana's romance path.

 

She did contradict Marjolaine herself when she thought those stolen documents would put her in danger, and she definitely questions the Warden's methods if she disapproves of them. Anyway I don't see what this has to do with admiration (or lack thereof): Leliana worries that Josie's diplomatic solution will take too long to solve the problem and the assassins will attack her in the meantime, so she suggests a quicker way. That's what the advisors do all the time in DAI, of course she does if her friend's safety is at risk. It's not like she imposes her plan on the Inquisitor, she merely insists on doubling Josie's guards, which ends up saving her life because (as Leliana predicted) the assassins try to murder her while we're in Val Royeaux taking care of her "favors".

[Basement Cat]

One of the few things I remember from Darkspawn Chronicles is Leliana still wearing her Chantry robes during the final battle in Denerim.

Seriously, Alistair? You go fight the Archdemon in a fancy heavy armor but can't bother to get decent equipment for your alleged lover? I'm surprised she even managed to reach the roof of Fort Drakon. This relationship was doomed from the start 

 

 

She did contradict Marjolaine herself when she thought those stolen documents would put her in danger, and she definitely questions the Warden's methods if she disapproves of them. Anyway I don't see what this has to do with admiration (or lack thereof): Leliana worries that Josie's diplomatic solution will take too long to solve the problem and the assassins will attack her in the meantime, so she suggests a quicker way. That's what the advisors do all the time in DAI, of course she does if her friend's safety is at risk. It's not like she imposes her plan on the Inquisitor, she merely insists on doubling Josie's guards, which ends up saving her life because (as Leliana predicted) the assassins try to murder her while we're in Val Royeaux taking care of her "favors".

Point. As for the admiration bit, well Leliana did admire Marjolaine and the Warden she romanced. The way she talks about her lovers and the way she talks about Josephine is very different. There's a certain something that's not there when she talks about Josephine. It's hard to pinpoint.

[Todrazok]

One thing to bear in mind with Darkspawn Chronicles is that without the Warden being there to lean on, Alistair would have to step up and take charge after Ostagar, thus changing his character development completely.

[AWTEW]

Saw this On DA, so sharing it.

 

 

by: amae heartlilly

[Fiery Phoenix]

Regarding Leliana, I very much hope she does move on from the Warden's death and maybe find someone else (and my Warden would explicitly tell Leliana the same, if she was able to voice an opinion), but with the way things turned out for her in the years since, I doubt she's had a chance to even think about it. First there was the shock and grief, and then Justinia called and Leliana had to re-hardened herself. A deeply trusting and "pure" bond would have gotten in the way of that, as well as given enemies a weakness to exploit that the new Left Hand could not afford.

I imagine being Divine would help with that. It's effectively hitting the restart button on a lot of aspects of her life/personality.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I kinda doubt she does anything with the Divine celibacy rule unless she's actually involved with a living Warden at the time, though. She might respect it in that case.

But who knows, I guess.

[Basement Cat]

I kinda doubt she does anything with the Divine celibacy rule unless she's actually involved with a living Warden at the time, though. She might respect it in that case.

But who knows, I guess.

Only the Warden may part the Divine, see? *runs away*

[LadyStoneheart]

Someone made an album of close shots of Leliana. A few examples:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Maker, her armor looks so cool but it must be a nightmare to take off.

[Basement Cat]

Someone made an album of close shots of Leliana. A few examples:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Maker, her armor looks so cool but it must be a nightmare to take off.

That's true for pretty much any armor. The padding, the straps, the buckles... Full plate armor is a pain. (used to do live action roleplay)