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[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Given Leliana's spirituality and belief in fate and all that, I've started thinking of her line at the end of DA2 as basically meaning 'It is no coincidence that both the people we need just so happen to be unavailable when we need them, the Maker must have something else in mind.' (ie, the Inquisitor.) rather than 'Their fates are linked.'

Good point. Might not be what they originally intended, but it works as an explanation.

That. Plus, I saw a theory that Leliana was so afraid a romanced Warden would get hurt she withheld the information, hoping they could find Hawke instead.
Then, still half-way looking for Hawke, Inky just dropped out of the Fade, rendering their search pointless.

I could believe that theory too, because I've always found there's a slightly accusatory tone in Cassandra's voice when she says 'Just like the Warden...,' as if she suspects something.

[LadyStoneheart]

Given Leliana's spirituality and belief in fate and all that, I've started thinking of her line at the end of DA2 as basically meaning 'It is no coincidence that both the people we need just so happen to be unavailable when we need them, the Maker must have something else in mind.' (ie, the Inquisitor.) rather than 'Their fates are linked.'

 

Oh I like this interpretation, and it fits with her saying "It's in the Maker's hands now, we put our faith in him".

It still sounds weird to me that Leliana would just lie to Cassandra for all this time, given what's at stake.

[N7_Heartfire]

Based on in game dialogue, Leliana did know that the Warden had gone on their quest for the calling cure and I think just like Varric she feared for their safety, clinging on the hope that the search for Hawke will prove a success and the Warden won't be needed. Then the Breach happened and she loses contact with her Warden. Makes sense if you ask me. :-)

[Serza]

You would think that would still anger Cassandra. I mean, that's the exact same excuse Varric gave for not contacting Hawke - he said something like, "What was I supposed to do, just hand him over to some zealot? .... You know what I think? If I had told you where Hawke was, he would have died at the Conclave just like the others."

 

I suppose it's like others were saying, though .... Varric holding back information was just the straw that broke the camel's back. She already had enough gripes with him.

 

She was the Spymaster.

 

"Hey, Cassandra, I just found out how we might be able to contact the Warden, though I'm not sure if it'll work."

 

And Cassie would just bite the bait, because that was their job all along, and Leliana found a way through her network. That is too shady for the righteous Seeker that Cassie is to understand, much less detect lies in.

[Fiery Phoenix]

New avie! (Thanks, Snook!)

[Basement Cat]

New avie! (Thanks, Snook!)

Shouldn't you change your name to Dark Phoenix then?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Shouldn't you change your name to Dark Phoenix then?

nooooooo

 

(although it would be more fitting for realz!)

[introverted_assassin]

Shady looking Lels...

bae.

[Serza]

Shouldn't you change your name to Dark Phoenix then?

 

Maybe.... Darth Leliana?

I know, not very original, but fitting nevertheless.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

nooooooo

 

(although it would be more fitting for realz!)

 

Lels is dark and fiery. It still works. :S

[Pack_Fan116]

This thread is far too massive to read through everyone's posts to see what they have written about DA's fare, red-haired maiden...
But I would like to give my two cents.

Leliana is easily the most interesting and well created character in the DA universe. Someone on the path of repentance with a dark, checkered past in DAO to 'Sister Nightingale' in DA2 to the spymaster of the Inquisition in DAI. BioWare must find her just as compelling of a character to include her in all 3 games in the series (and her own DLC). She is someone who is strong in her faith, yet is easily influenced by the protagonist... especially the Warden.

Obviously I romanced her in DAO and gave her the nug (in more ways than one )... but when I was first introduced to Leliana in DAO, I didn't think much of her. As the game went on and I conversed with her at camp (and changed her out of her Chantry robes), I began to fall in love with her (in a plutonic way... as a cool videogame character). I never desecrated the Sacred Ashes, so I never killed her in any playthrough nor do I know how she came back from the dead if she was killed.

In DAI she is better than ever and her spymaster outfit with the hood is pretty awesome. Although we don't get to know her on a personal level as we did in DAO, she is still the 'cool kid' of all the advisers, and people who have played all 3 games already know her backstory.

A lot of people have complaints about DAI, but thank you BioWare for bringing Leliana back into the game, and it's good to know that she is still hopelessly in love with my Warden after all these years (even though she has know idea where he is)...

[Serza]

Hahaha, plutonic...

Plutonium... I think I get it. You went up like a nuke...

 

I wonder if Cat picks up...

Oooh, a simple typo... And what I create...

 

Alternatively, you were really, really deep...

By the Creators... Priceless.

[AWTEW]

I really dislike this 'Origins Leliana was all a lie!' thing people seem to be pushing all the time. It was not. Maybe she was cranking up the sweetness a bit, but it's still there under the surface in DAI. It's part of her, she wasn't just making that up. Saying it's 'not truly who she was' is completely unfair because she was making a whole-hearted attempt to change as a person. Seriously, who the heck are we to say that's not who she 'truly was?' You can convince Leliana in both games that that's her true self. She can believe it. I don't see why others can't, and think their preferred Leliana path is the more 'correct' one.

 

No not all, not entirely a lie, but she was proficient in the game by then. And there are quite a few hints in Origins, and indeed the Guardian of the temple himself call her out on her bs.

She was the Spymaster.

 

"Hey, Cassandra, I just found out how we might be able to contact the Warden, though I'm not sure if it'll work."

 

And Cassie would just bite the bait, because that was their job all along, and Leliana found a way through her network. That is too shady for the righteous Seeker that Cassie is to understand, much less detect lies in.

 I'm not so convinced of that. She knows what Leliana's job entails, and she has  decent knowledge of 'The game'. Unlike Varric she respects Leliana, and has worked closely with her. And in the interrogation there were parts when she did see through his bs.

[Serza]

No not all, not entirely a lie, but she was proficient in the game by then. And there are quite a few hints in Origins, and indeed the Guardian of the temple himself call her out on her bs.

 I'm not so convinced of that. She knows what Leliana's job entails, and she has  decent knowledge of 'The game'. Unlike Varric she respects Leliana, and has worked closely with her. And in the interrogation there were parts when she did see through his bs.

 

Well, it was my best theory...

 

So, mind you, I'll just shrug and look like an idiot until someone actually clever comes up with a better idea. It's a talent...

[GenericEnemy]

No not all, not entirely a lie, but she was proficient in the game by then. And there are quite a few hints in Origins, and indeed the Guardian of the temple himself call her out on her bs.

 

Except he doesn't, he put forward the idea that perhaps she was just looking for attention a bit with her vision, but nothing more than that. Which might be true at least somewhat, but I think by now it's clear Leliana did believe in her vision when it came to her. She brings it up even in DA:I. As the Warden could say, I believe that she believed. 

 

If she was just manipulating the Warden by being someone she's not, I'm pretty sure the Guardian would have called her out on that instead. Which is why it's nonsense to say 'she was never truly like that.' She was. She was in Origins. She was changing, leaving that old life behind her. She would probably still be like that if Justinia hadn't come along and messed her up again. 

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Perhaps the most satisfying thing about DA:I, was that after so many years of people putting forth their debbie downer theories about how Leliana dumped the Warden after DAO, played us for a sucker, was a spai all along, Warden is now forever alone, etc etc etc bla bla bla, after DA2 came out with the rather vague cameo leaving everything uncertain...and they were all proven to be wroooooooonnnnnggg. I always argued against them. I was riiiiggggghhhhht. Muaha. Wuahaha. 

 

I remember being called naive and gullible or something for believing otherwise, but HAH WHERE ARE YOU NOW CALL ME NAIVE AND GULLIBLE GUY HOW DO YOU LIKE WRONGNESS

 

I wish I knew where all the people I argued with back in the day were right now, so I could gloat about it. Alas. 

[AWTEW]

Well, it was my best theory...

 

So, mind you, I'll just shrug and look like an idiot until someone actually clever comes up with a better idea. It's a talent...

 

It's still a nice theory

Except he doesn't, he put forward the idea that perhaps she was just looking for attention a bit with her vision, but nothing more than that. Which might be true at least somewhat, but I think by now it's clear Leliana did believe in her vision when it came to her. She brings it up even in DA:I. As the Warden could say, I believe that she believed. 

 

If she was just manipulating the Warden by being someone she's not, I'm pretty sure the Guardian would have called her out on that instead. Which is why it's nonsense to say 'she was never truly like that.' She was. She was in Origins. She was changing, leaving that old life behind her. She would probably still be like that if Justinia hadn't come along and messed her up again. 

 

But he does bring her motives into question at the very least. Except he also could have called Morrigan out on her manipulation of the warden , but he did not. She was not really going  to change. She will admit that she really left the chantry because she was bored. As for justinia manipulating her,  that is not entirely true  Leliana could have said no and served the chantry in another fashion. But she enjoys 'the great game' immensely and is good at it.

[GenericEnemy]

She was not really going  to change. She will admit that she really left the chantry because she was bored. 

 

 So? She was still making the attempt, as she had been for years at that point. Who she was before distressed her greatly thinking back on it. If you keep her unhardened, she dedicates even further to doing better. Even if you harden her, she doesn't become moody and evil all the sudden, she still disapproves of excessive violent actions, is still rather bubbly and approachable, loves music, stories, all of it. That's part of who she was. Just like the more morally dubious parts are too.

 

 

As for justinia manipulating her,  that is not entirely true  Leliana could have said no and served the chantry in another fashion. But she enjoys 'the great game' immensely and is good at it.

 

She didn't say no because Justinia was like a mother to her. She loved her. She saved her life. She knew she the only one who could do what Justinia wanted, so she did it. It doesn't mean she wanted to do it. If anything, her dialogue makes it pretty clear she didn't want to get dragged back into it but sucked it up for Justinia's sake.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Too tired to add anything to that debate at the moment, so throwback DA:O screenshot time of when I just fired it up a moment ago, to find Leliana and Schmooples just hanging out, bottle of wine behind them.



I'm not sure if this is the result of a mod I have somewhere, or me just forgetting little details, because I've never seen it before. At least someone's relaxing rather than standing around camp all day and night.

[Nightingale]

You must not have Oghren around yet or there'd be no wine left

 

 So? She was still making the attempt, as she had been for years at that point. Who she was before distressed her greatly thinking back on it. If you keep her unhardened, she dedicates even further to doing better. Even if you harden her, she doesn't become moody and evil all the sudden, she still disapproves of excessive violent actions, is still rather bubbly and approachable, loves music, stories, all of it. That's part of who she was. Just like the more morally dubious parts are too.

 

 

 

She didn't say no because Justinia was like a mother to her. She loved her. She saved her life. She knew she the only one who could do what Justinia wanted, so she did it. It doesn't mean she wanted to do it. If anything, her dialogue makes it pretty clear she didn't want to get dragged back into it but sucked it up for Justinia's sake.

 

I agree; I think the fact that she tried so hard to change matters. I also think people only seem to see her as one or the other and that's why it's such a shift from DAO to DAI for some. No, she wasn't always entirely the "good Sister" but it's not like she was always "princess stabbity" either. She was always more complex than that. Which is why her saying she is not defined by any one thing she's been - bard, sister, left hand, spymaster - was one of my favourite scenes with her in Inquisition.

 

And the Guardian didn't accuse Morrigan of manipulating the Warden because she didn't give him a chance

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

You must not have Oghren around yet or there'd be no wine left

 

Nah, he's there. Sitting around, looking like he's really contemplating whether or not he could get away with eating Schmooples, squeaking around behind him... 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

You'd think Leliana would move him away. :S

[Nightingale]

Nah, he's there. Sitting around, looking like he's really contemplating whether or not he could get away with eating Schmooples, squeaking around behind him... 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

You'd think Leliana would move him away. :S

 

Between the lack of privacy (Morrigan's got the right idea, methinks), his drinking and mistaking people for the, err, poetess that "stole" his wife and then passing out, and threatening to turn poor Schmooples into a snack, I'm amazed she didn't move her whole tent when he joined up.

 

That reminds me, I've always wondered...how does Barkspawn feel about Schmooples? I mean, he's a smart dog but Leliana must spend more time guarding Schmooples than fighting darkspawn with those two around.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

That lack of privacy leads to some hilarity, though. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

How I've missed this game. 

 

That reminds me, I've always wondered...how does Barkspawn feel about Schmooples? I mean, he's a smart dog but Leliana must spend more time guarding Schmooples than fighting darkspawn with those two around.

 

I've always headcanoned they're, like, the most unlikely friends ever. Like Leliana and the Warden's weird adopted children. 

 

With Barkspawn trying to get him to play around as a dog would, leaving the poor nug terrified and confused. 

[introverted_assassin]

i headcanon that Dog plays tag with Schmooples for short periods of time. He usually senses when nuggles has had enough fun. this is only after Leli had a talk with him.