15916 réponses à ce sujet

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I was just thinking: if we romanced Leliana with a manipulative Warden who cheated on her with Morrigan, hardened her and then defiled the Ashes (you can bully her into not attacking if she's hardened), it would explain her frosty yet concerned attitude towards Morrigan. It's possible the Warden will treat her just as badly.

 

That little scenario would also mean that she hasn't been truly loved by anyone but her mother. Marjolaine, Justinia and the Warden all used her for their own purposes. And Morrigan's childhood was horrible and isolated from contact.

 

That kind of Warden needs to choke on whatever Calling cure they find and tragically die, tbh. 

[Basement Cat]

That kind of Warden needs to choke on whatever Calling cure they find and tragically die, tbh. 

*ahem*  In any case, it's sad to see where Leliana has ended up emotionally. Varric and Blackwall both say something about her working all the time and doing very little else. According to Cole, she suffers from nightmares too.

 

We see her display a lot of knee jerk reactions. The traitor agent in Haven, Natalie in Valance, the argument after the destruction of Haven, lashing out against the Maker (again, in Haven), etc. She is in a very delicate place emotionally and is afraid to lose more of what she has lost.

 

But here comes the irony: If encouraged down the 'hard' path, she reacts on pure emotion to threats of loss: kills Natalie, kidnaps the grand cleric's cousin (who may or may not be a child), kills dissenters if made divine, etc. If something threatens to take something away from her: she destroys it. That's not rational thinking.

 

However, if she is 'softened', she in fact becomes more stable and rational. She manipulates Natalie into swaying the Grand Cleric, she negotiates with dissenters if made divine and generally thinks more before she acts.

 

In Origins, hardening or softening her is about accepting or denying her dark side, respectively. In Inquisition, it's about clinging to anything that provides stability or learning to deal with loss and remain flexible.

 

So for me, hardened in Origins and softened in Inquisition is the way to go.

[Miss Quisitor]

Leliana dressing up Morrigan.

 

[erikdlan]

I was very surprised in a good way when I heard what Leliana had to say about the DR. Leliana did know about the DR. That's a very dramatic scene for my headcanon. And Morrigan was right in DAO after all when she told my Warden Leliana would accept the DR if that meaned to safe the HoF's life. 

 

In my world state Leliana has a reason to be a "bad influence" for Kieran. She knows that Kieran is the only son the Warden could have. Divine or not, with a cure for the Calling or not, is quite unlikely for the Warden to have any children and there are close to zero possibilities for him to have a baby with Leliana. She isn't young and the HoF is a Grey Warden. It sounds quite logical for her to worry about Kieran.

 

In my headcanon Leliana offers Morrigan the possibility for Kieran to learn from Leliana's personal library. Morrigan would be as insolent as ever with her response, but she would be very grateful for someone to help with Kieran's education. That would be the point for both, Morrigan and Leliana, to change their attitude.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

*ahem* 

 

Wha, you have a Warden like that? I wouldn't have the stomach for it. Hurrible, tbh. :S

 

 

So for me, hardened in Origins and softened in Inquisition is the way to go.

 

For me, it's always been softened in both games. 

 

Makes her downward spiral in Inquisition that much more heartwrenching, and makes helping her get out of it that much more rewarding, IMO. 

[Basement Cat]

Wha, you have a Warden like that? I wouldn't have the stomach for it. Hurrible, tbh. :S

 

 

For me, it's always been softened in both games. 

 

Makes her downward spiral in Inquisition that much more heartwrenching, and makes helping her get out of it that much more rewarding, IMO. 

I had one (for Science!).  A male Cousland with dark tattoos around his eyes and a bony face. He looked like a total psycho.

 

Well, I find the hardening and softening dialogue options in Origins are not satisfying anyway. Too extreme in either direction.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I only had problems with the hardening dialogue in Origins. Why I never did it. Agreeing that she's just like Marjolaine rubs me the wrong way...would be terribly OOC for my Warden too, she'd never say something like that. 

 

I always went with "Marjolaine chose who she became. So can you." and then "Evil doesn't worry about not being good." 

[Basement Cat]

I only had problems with the hardening dialogue in Origins. Why I never did it. Agreeing that she's just like Marjolaine rubs me the wrong way...would be terribly OOC for my Warden too, she'd never say something like that. 

 

I always went with "Marjolaine chose who she became. So can you." and then "Evil doesn't worry about not being good." 

Yeah, those were ok. Still, I would have liked a sort of 'take a third option' kind of deal. Oh well.

[erikdlan]

*ahem*  In any case, it's sad to see where Leliana has ended up emotionally. Varric and Blackwall both say something about her working all the time and doing very little else. According to Cole, she suffers from nightmares too.

 

We see her display a lot of knee jerk reactions. The traitor agent in Haven, Natalie in Valance, the argument after the destruction of Haven, lashing out against the Maker (again, in Haven), etc. She is in a very delicate place emotionally and is afraid to lose more of what she has lost.

 

But here comes the irony: If encouraged down the 'hard' path, she reacts on pure emotion to threats of loss: kills Natalie, kidnaps the grand cleric's cousin (who may or may not be a child), kills dissenters if made divine, etc. If something threatens to take something away from her: she destroys it. That's not rational thinking.

 

However, if she is 'softened', she in fact becomes more stable and rational. She manipulates Natalie into swaying the Grand Cleric, she negotiates with dissenters if made divine and generally thinks more before she acts.

 

In Origins, hardening or softening her is about accepting or denying her dark side, respectively. In Inquisition, it's about clinging to anything that provides stability or learning to deal with loss and remain flexible.

 

So for me, hardened in Origins and softened in Inquisition is the way to go.

Good points, but for me it's unhardened/unhardened.

 

For my Warden, Leliana was a woman struggling to have a second opportunity in life and somehow killing Marjolaine was going back to her former life. In DA:I she seems close to a depression, I think she needs more joy and light in her life, not more darkness.

 

I usually just do one playthrough in Bioware games, but in DA:I I started a second playthrough because I hardened Leli. I dislike the mechanichs behind the hardening of Leliana in DA:I, but I got an interesting story from it. Not what I want to be my canon, but an interesting story. My Inquisitor believed he was the Herald of Andraste and he wanted to be a true champion for everyone, but he was too prideful and bit of an hypocrite. He fell in the traps of the end justify the means. In particular he risked the life of Leliana's agents in Josie's personal mission, instead of using the more peaceful solution, because he loved Josphine and couldn't risk her life.

[Elfyoth]

When I look at Leliana in DAI I see a woman who got caught in an emporinal conflict, many pepole understimate what the writers tried to do here, I see her more as human as well as Varric who is not a joker after the events of Kirkwall, she is one of the best chars imo  

[Basement Cat]

Ooh! Just a found a song that is perfect for the Warden/Leliana romance in DAI.

 

[Uccio]

Ooh! Just a found a song that is perfect for the Warden/Leliana romance in DAI.

 

 

Except if she becomes the pope then, cya Warden. *loltrollface*

 

Kind of eats off the big love thingy.

 

 

Edit: it´s a good song though.

[Xilizhra]

Except if she becomes the pope then, cya Warden. *loltrollface*

 

Kind of eats off the big love thingy.

 

 

Edit: it´s a good song though.

They're still together in that situation.

[Uccio]

So people claim, but it is only head canon. In the sliders there is no indication of HoF being around. Cass dumps Inq if she becomes the divide so I guess divine can´t have side dish. Like pope.

[vertigomez]

I love this thread and all the thoughtful conversations within~

Since Kieran and the DR got brought up... am I the only one who was totally floored by Leliana's acceptance of it in Inquisition? Not that it's a bad thing--or a good thing, for that matter--it's just I honestly expected her to be much more against it, especially if a romanced Warden fathers the baby.

I remember that was one of the choices I really bit my nails over in my romanced Leli playthrough. My assumption was that, had we the chance to speak with her beforehand, she'd pull an Alistair and be like "no no noooope, dark sex ritual?? Deadbeat dad? DO NOT WANT", but she... seems pretty okay with it? Huh.

And another thing... for those of you that hardened her in Origins, married Alistair/Anora and kept Leliana as your mistress... does that still apply if you unharden her in DAI?

[Xilizhra]

So people claim, but it is only head canon. In the sliders there is no indication of HoF being around. Cass dumps Inq if she becomes the divide so I guess divine can´t have side dish. Like pope.

Cassandra is much more staid. Leliana specifically says that nothing will come between them again, and there's no indication that becoming Divine is a thing that would. The idea that they would break up is even more unsupported headcanon.

 

 

And another thing... for those of you that hardened her in Origins, married Alistair/Anora and kept Leliana as your mistress... does that still apply if you unharden her in DAI?

From what I know, yes.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I was just thinking: if we romanced Leliana with a manipulative Warden who cheated on her with Morrigan, hardened her and then defiled the Ashes (you can bully her into not attacking if she's hardened), it would explain her frosty yet concerned attitude towards Morrigan. It's possible the Warden will treat her just as badly.

 

That little scenario would also mean that she hasn't been truly loved by anyone but her mother. Marjolaine, Justinia and the Warden all used her for their own purposes. And Morrigan's childhood was horrible and isolated from contact.

 

Notice how they both have someone they dote upon: Josephine for Leliana and Kieran (possibly) for Morrigan. Leliana and Morrigan have in a common a great need to give and receive affection that was twisted and abused by someone in their background, Marjolaine and Flemeth respectively. They are both dreamers too. Leliana through her religion and she focuses on the future and change (her plans for the Chantry if made Divine) while for Morrigan it's through magic and she focuses on the past and preserving/rediscovering lost magic lore.

 

They have more in common than either would care to admit, I'm sure. 

Indeed. Their differences tend to overshadow what they have in common, perhaps unsurprisingly.

 

They have also changed by the time Inquisition happens. Leliana grows into a full-fledged spymaster whereas Morrigan ends up working for Celene and is possibly a mother by the time.

[Uccio]

Cassandra is much more staid. Leliana specifically says that nothing will come between them again, and there's no indication that becoming Divine is a thing that would. The idea that they would break up is even more unsupported headcanon.

 

 

It happens if the position demands it. And Leliana is as religious as Cassandra if not even more. But we would need a dev to clarify this to be sure.

[Basement Cat]

I love this thread and all the thoughtful conversations within~

Since Kieran and the DR got brought up... am I the only one who was totally floored by Leliana's acceptance of it in Inquisition? Not that it's a bad thing--or a good thing, for that matter--it's just I honestly expected her to be much more against it, especially if a romanced Warden fathers the baby.

I remember that was one of the choices I really bit my nails over in my romanced Leli playthrough. My assumption was that, had we the chance to speak with her beforehand, she'd pull an Alistair and be like "no no noooope, dark sex ritual?? Deadbeat dad? DO NOT WANT", but she... seems pretty okay with it? Huh.

And another thing... for those of you that hardened her in Origins, married Alistair/Anora and kept Leliana as your mistress... does that still apply if you unharden her in DAI?

Do you mean is softening her in DAI going to lead her to dump the quee/prince consort Warden when you had to harden her in Origins to do that?

 

I don't think so. Different levels of morality and all that.

[Xilizhra]

It happens the position demands it. And Leliana is as religious as Cassandra if not even more. But we would need a dev to clarify this to be sure.

Not when you're in the position and can change it. And Leliana is religious, yes, but she's not nearly as orthodox; she's willing to break with the Chantry on many issues.

[erikdlan]

It happens the position demands it. And Leliana is as religious as Cassandra if not even more. But we would need a dev to clarify this to be sure.

It's something Leli's writers said on Twitter. They said they would continue their love story, first as a secret, then openly, because Divine Vicky would change the rules of celibacy for the Chantry. Am I right?

Anyway I feel it's more a question about what would Leliana do, than a canon Bioware reality, because if romanced Divine Leliana canonically continues her story with the Warden first in secret, then openly, that means big things:
- The Warden goes back from the cure the Calling Quest.
- The Warden does not need to continue to be far away trying to cure the Calling, because
a ) The Cure was found or at least the HoF is cured.
b ) No Cure is possible, or at least they think the HoF has no (time for a) cure and all they want is expend the Warden's final moments together.

All this implications are quite huge in my mind, much bigger than Leliana dumping the Warden or not.

[vertigomez]

From what I know, yes.

  

Do you mean is softening her in DAI going to lead her to dump the quee/prince consort Warden when you had to harden her in Origins to do that?
 
I don't think so. Different levels of morality and all that.

Thank you both.

That's pretty much what I was getting at, yeah. I figure even unhardened-DAI Leliana is harder than hardened-DAO Leliana (lmao did that sentence make sense to anyone else?), but I wasn't sure. I suppose if she's still willing to be in a relationship with you as Divine Victoria, she's probably not as fussed about the whole mistress thing as she was in Origins. But I was just curious.

[Basement Cat]

It happens the position demands it. And Leliana is as religious as Cassandra if not even more. But we would need a dev to clarify this to be sure.

They did. Both Patrick Weekes and Sheryl Chee (you know, Leliana's writer) have said she would change the rules. Here.

 

As I recall this was pointed this out to you before and you dismissed it as headcanon. Patrick Weekes and Sheryl Chee don't count as devs?

[Fiery Phoenix]

They did. Both Patrick Weekes and Sheryl Chee (you know, Leliana's writer) have said she would change the rules. Here.

 

As I recall this was pointed this out to you before and you dismissed it as headcanon. Patrick Weekes and Sheryl Chee don't count as devs?

Got that link bookmarked, do you not?

[Basement Cat]

Got that link bookmarked, are you not?

< _<  >_> No...