15916 réponses à ce sujet

[Basement Cat]

Can't say I blame them, whoever did that is a dink who doesn't even deserve a consistent storyline

 

Agreed. I've never done it and have absolutely no intention of doing so, but I must admit it'd be an...interesting world state. If it were actually addressed, of course. Very...Marjolaine-like betrayal, could've been some interesting dialogue there. Especially if they're both still alive and you harden Leliana...

*ahem* I was on my fourth playthrough and I was bored! It was for science!

 

Edit: the 'Leliana has a blind spot for Wardens' bit comes after the reveal about Blackwall.

[AWTEW]

*ahem* I was on my fourth playthrough and I was bored! It was for science!

 

Edit: @Fieryphoenix: the 'Leliana has a blind spot for Wardens' bit comes after the reveal about Blackwall.

 

Ahh, yes now Iremember that's where its from! 

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

So, how do you guys feel about the hardened vs softened topic?

 

I've always kept her softened in both games. Didn't like the hardening dialogue in Origins, and hardened Leliana in DA:I is just way too much of a psychopath. I'd prefer she keep her mental health somewhat intact. >.>

 

And, it's always been much more satisfying to me to give her a little bit of uplifting and inspire her a bit rather than watch her go on a downward spiral. Happened my first run, by accident. Not doing that again.

 

Then I amend it to "Flemeth-tier skeleton, probably not dead." Because the wording on the in-game choice was quite ambiguous.

 

I'm going to be really disappointed in BioWare if that choice ends up getting completely cheapened by the person you left not actually dying. 

 

That looks like Lara Croft

 

Lara Croft Warden? Sure, why not. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

I've always kept her softened in both games. Didn't like the hardening dialogue in Origins, and hardened Leliana in DA:I is just way too much of a psychopath. I'd prefer she keep her mental health somewhat intact. >.>

 

And, it's always been much more satisfying to me to give her a little bit of uplifting and inspire her a bit rather than watch her go on a downward spiral. Happened my first run, by accident. Not doing that again.

 

 

I'm going to be really disappointed in BioWare if that choice ends up getting completely cheapened by the person you left not actually dying. 

 

 

Lara Croft Warden? Sure, why not. 

Or it turned out that they got possessed by the Nightmare and we have to kill them personally as an abomination in the DLC's

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Or it turned out that they got possessed by the Nightmare and we have to kill them personally as an abomination in the DLC's

 

Well, that'd be better than them coming out unscathed.

[wright1978]

So, how do you guys feel about the hardened vs softened topic?

 

Prefer her hardened in both games.

[Jaison1986]

I've always kept her softened in both games. Didn't like the hardening dialogue in Origins, and hardened Leliana in DA:I is just way too much of a psychopath. I'd prefer she keep her mental health somewhat intact. >.>

 

And, it's always been much more satisfying to me to give her a little bit of uplifting and inspire her a bit rather than watch her go on a downward spiral. Happened my first run, by accident. Not doing that again.

 

 

I'm going to be really disappointed in BioWare if that choice ends up getting completely cheapened by the person you left not actually dying. 

 

 

Lara Croft Warden? Sure, why not. 

 

I see nothing wrong with Leliana hardened dialogue in Origins. It's all about the warden encouraging Leliana to embrace her true self rather then running from it. Inquisition is another story. I struggle with that choice because in Inquisition is not really about Leliana finding her true self, but more about her throwing away her morals for the sake of her job. So in one side I hate unhardened Leliana because she makes an disney movie level of Divine, while her hardened self is efficient and cunning, you get the feeling she became miserable.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

You're telling her Marjolaine is right and she's just like her.

Rubs me the wrong way. Nor do I believe it's true like some seem to, with their 'true self' arguments. I prefer encouraging her to stick with this path of repentance that she chose. She wants to change. She did that on her own prerogative, probably the first choice she's really made for herself in a long while. Not about to tell her otherwise.

"Evil doesn't worry about not being good." -> my favourite dialogue there.

[His Name was HYR!!]

You're telling her Marjolaine is right and she's just like her.

Rubs me the wrong way. Nor do I believe it's true like some seem to, with their 'true self' arguments. I prefer encouraging her to stick with this path of repentance that she chose. She wants to change. She did that on her own prerogative, probably the first choice she's really made for herself in a long while. Not about to tell her otherwise.

"Evil doesn't worry about not being good." -> my favourite dialogue there.

 

That is how I feel about it in Origins, myself.

 

In Inquisition, though, I feel totally different.

 

With the traitor, the only outcome I can really accept from telling her to back down is saying that she should take the traitor alive for information (though I still find it a little stupid, as if the Inquisitior knows better than an actual, experienced spymaster). The "Ideals are exactly what we need right now!" line might just be the worst quote in the entire game, IMO.

 

But telling her to care about the soldiers/agents on the field is just ... do not even get me started.

 

And, when it came to it, I had no issue with her slaying that 'sister in the Chantry.

[Wulfram]

I might be OK with hardened Leliana if she didn't murder the sister in the Chantry.

 

As it is, no way.

[wright1978]

I might be OK with hardened Leliana if she didn't murder the sister in the Chantry.
 
As it is, no way.

Fair enough, personally I have no issues with leliana gutting the enemy chantry sister.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Not killing Natalie actually ends up being the right choice, though. She throws her lot in with the Inquisition if she's spared and gets more Chantry support.

I prefer softened Leliana not only because I prefer her character like that, but it's more practical that way too. She starts realizing murder isn't always the best solution.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Speaking of which, there totally should have been a scene where softened Leliana says her old "I suppose violence is a solution. Sometimes."

Shame.

[introverted_assassin]

umm i don't recall the dialogue for hardening bae in Origins to be you telling her that Marjolaine was right....i would have never co-signed on THAT.

i also have a problem with it being called hardening to begin with because essentially, how my canon warden saw it at least, was to tell her to quit running from herself. The half only makes part of the whole. Ignoring that does her a disservice imo.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

umm i don't recall the dialogue for hardening bae in Origins to be you telling her that Marjolaine was right....i would have never co-signed on THAT.

She's getting distressed about Marjolaine being right, and the Warden is telling her that's who she is. I don't believe that.

i also have a problem with it being called hardening to begin with because essentially, how my canon warden saw it at least, was to tell her to quit running from herself. The half only makes part of the whole. Ignoring that does her a disservice imo.

And I saw keeping her unhardened not as telling her to run from herself, but encouraging her to move on from it and repent like she's been trying to, and that she can choose who she becomes, as the dialogue says. "Marjolaine chose what she became. So can you."

IMO, it feels much more like I'm letting Leliana find her own path rather than making a choice for her. As so many have tried to do in her life.

[AWTEW]

That is how I feel about it in Origins, myself.
 
In Inquisition, though, I feel totally different.
 
With the traitor, the only outcome I can really accept from telling her to back down is saying that she should take the traitor alive for information (though I still find it a little stupid, as if the Inquisitior knows better than an actual, experienced spymaster). The "Ideals are exactly what we need right now!" line might just be the worst quote in the entire game, IMO.
 
But telling her to care about the soldiers/agents on the field is just ... do not even get me started.
 
And, when it came to it, I had no issue with her slaying that 'sister in the Chantry.

[Jaison1986]

She's getting distressed about Marjolaine being right, and the Warden is telling her that's who she is. I don't believe that.


And I saw keeping her unhardened not as telling her to run from herself, but encouraging her to move on from it and repent like she's been trying to, and that she can choose who she becomes, as the dialogue says. "Marjolaine chose what she became. So can you."

 

That's what you believe. But that doesn't make it hard fact. because if you tell Leliana that she was just running away, she won't deny it. She will admit all the Chantry did was bore her. And that in the end she does enjoy the fighting, adventuring and the killing. Just like the hardening dialogue says "Don't punish yourself for doing something you enjoy". I'm not saying Leliana is the same as Marjolaine. I'm telling her that having an harder self is no failing.

[jlb524]

http://www.reddit.co...east_right_now/

 

There's some stuff about Leliana in here:

 

Spoiler

 

The Inquisition is the story of a lot of people thinking you’re a religious figure. we give you the option to say whether you have your doubts, we give you chance to make use of that power. some followers are offended that you’d set yourself up as a religious figure

Leliana was a believer — not a zealot but obviously a person of faith. look at inquisition her faith has been kicked in the shins. divine justinia used her as an assassin. having the pope tall you to go kill people makes you think bad things about the pope.

You decide if she gets it back and becomes older and wiser person, or will she say religion is just a way to manipulate and use people and i’m going to use it for a good cause

Corypheus is someone who was a burned believer, who had that faith utterly betrayed. the whispers leading me into that city was a lie, what the hell do i do with this — if the world doesn’t have a god, he’s going to put himself in charge. if we had another 6 months or xx dollars, we would have had more conversations with corypheus.

He's someone who was a person of faith and it was destroyed."

 

[introverted_assassin]

i just don't see it that way, Snook. I really feel like she was hiding a part of herself because it felt safe. but she was still running...and it's likely some other part of her past would've caught up with her. That's just how my warden saw it. And it resonates with me personally because i've been there irl. i can see your side i just don't view it that way personally.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's what you believe. But that doesn't make it hard fact. because if you tell Leliana that she was just running away, she won't deny it. She will admit all the Chantry did was bore her. And that in the end she does enjoy the fighting, adventuring and the killing. Just like the hardening dialogue says "Don't punish yourself for doing something you enjoy". I'm not saying Leliana is the same as Marjolaine. I'm telling her that having an harder self is no failing.

She hardly knows who she is she tells you two different things whether you harden her or not.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

That's what you believe. But that doesn't make it hard fact.

That makes two of us.

because if you tell Leliana that she was just running away, she won't deny it.

Because you just convinced her of that. If you didn't, I'm sure she reached another conclusion. Doesn't make it any less genuine.

She will admit all the Chantry did was bore her. And that in the end she does enjoy the fighting, adventuring and the killing.

But she wasn't with the Chantry anymore, was she? She was with the Warden. But now, she's just moved on from her past. She says she's found peace.

I'm not saying you're wrong for hardening her. I just dislike it when people act like unhardened Leliana is just lying to herself, and hardened is her only 'true self' etc.

[Jaison1986]

That makes two of us.


Because you just convinced her of that. If you didn't, I'm sure she reached another conclusion. Doesn't make it any less genuine.


But she wasn't with the Chantry anymore, was she? She was with the Warden. But now, she's just moved on from her past. She says she's found peace.

 

You're mistaken. I never said hardening Leliana is the only viable conclusion. I'm saying it's not right to say unhardening Leliana is the only positive path for her.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

You're mistaken. I never said hardening Leliana is the only viable conclusion. I'm saying it's not right to say unhardening Leliana is the only positive path for her.

Read my edit of the last post. I'm not saying you're wrong. It rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not begrudging people for doing it and having different interpretations than I do.

I just dislike people throwing around terms like 'true self' in regards to Leliana.

[Fiery Phoenix]

 

http://www.reddit.co...east_right_now/

 

There's some stuff about Leliana in here:

 

Spoiler

 

The Inquisition is the story of a lot of people thinking you’re a religious figure. we give you the option to say whether you have your doubts, we give you chance to make use of that power. some followers are offended that you’d set yourself up as a religious figure

Leliana was a believer — not a zealot but obviously a person of faith. look at inquisition her faith has been kicked in the shins. divine justinia used her as an assassin. having the pope tall you to go kill people makes you think bad things about the pope.

You decide if she gets it back and becomes older and wiser person, or will she say religion is just a way to manipulate and use people and i’m going to use it for a good cause

Corypheus is someone who was a burned believer, who had that faith utterly betrayed. the whispers leading me into that city was a lie, what the hell do i do with this — if the world doesn’t have a god, he’s going to put himself in charge. if we had another 6 months or xx dollars, we would have had more conversations with corypheus.

He's someone who was a person of faith and it was destroyed."

 

 

Thanks for sharing that. Been in a group study session all day. Didn't even realize this was PAX weekend.

 

Read my edit of the last post. I'm not saying you're wrong. It rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not begrudging people for doing it and having different interpretations than I do.

I just dislike people throwing around terms like 'true self' in regards to Leliana.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. I don't necessarily share your reasoning for not hardening her, but we're really on the same page.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Unhardened Leliana doesn't give a foursome so Leliana gets hardened in DAO. Foursomes FTW!!