Have to say letting Celene die is one of a few things I've disagreed with Leli on. It sounded unnecessarily reckless.
Yeah, it didn't really make much sense to politically de-stabilise the country during the breech. When leliana suggested it, I got the impression that there was more too it than she said. It makes sense I suppose, between Gaspard and Celene, Celene is defiantly the more 'dangerous' one.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I agree it's screwed up.
And yet, they still have feelings for each other. It happens.
Politically speaking though, I also like what those two could do together. Gaspard just reminds me of heavy Defense spending politicans. He's more concerned with security. Celene is heavier on domestic and educational improvements, and Briala would improve much of that pertaining to elves.
Yeah, it didn't really make much sense to politically de-stabilise the country during the breech. When leliana suggested it, I got the impression that there was more too it than she said. It makes sense I suppose, between Gaspard and Celene, Celene is defiantly the more 'dangerous' one.
Not rly considering that Gaspard crushed and outsmarted celene more than once.
It's not abusive, but it is utterly screwed up. I mean, Celene will have Briala executed without the Inquisitor's intervention.
And nothing's really been resolved. It's just the magic powers of the PC stuffing them back into a relationship, with the whole murdering my parents and slaughtering my people stuff simply swept under the carpet.
Wait,what? I didn't know that. Although its possibly celene is just 'saying' that she will have her executed, since there was no death on screen.
To be fair, Celene was only 16, her own parents had just been killed, and she was not in a good way. (A prequel would probably be a good way of explaining that,since it (along with other things) was not touched up enough in the book. As for the elves thing, that was an unexpected development, and the Divine is also responsible for that. Entirely, blaming Celene was a bit rash on Brialias part. Celene might be ruler but she is still subject to the pressures of the game, and outside factions ect.
I agree it's screwed up.
And yet, they still have feelings for each other. It happens.
Politically speaking though, I also like what those two could do together. Gaspard just reminds me of heavy Defense spending politicans. He's more concerned with security. Celene is heavier on domestic and educational improvements, and Briala would improve much of that pertaining to elves.
I belive re-uniting them gives the best outcome on the slides. I'm not 100% sure though.
I belive re-uniting them gives the best outcome on the slides. I'm not 100% sure though.
'Best' is a highly subjective term. There are many people who prefer Gaspard, with or without Briala.
It's possible Leliana doesn't mind Celene dying because Celene knows about Dorothea's less than saintly past (implied in TME). Even though she's dead, it could still be used to cause trouble.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
'Best' is a highly subjective term. There are many people who prefer Gaspard, with or without Briala.
Yeah, I don't even feel like debating it. Or the Divines for that matter. I'm not sure why people get so passionate about that last one.
The whole mage/templar debate was kind of cool, but even that lost it's steam. It kind of tells me these arguments aren't worth it.
Yeah, I don't even feel like debating it. Or the Divines for that matter. I'm not sure why people get so passionate about that last one.
Have you seen the Divine Leliana thread...? 
I reconciled them too, after reading TME. Their relationship is complex, probably even a bit screwed up. Still, I did want a romantic ending. 
Am I the only one who thought Leliana's willingness to kill Celene slightly OOC? I know she can be ruthless and pragmatic, but even so... I wanted Celene to rule, even on her own. That said, I didn't actually want Gaspard executed either. Le sigh.
I always lean towards softening Leliana in Inquisition. I know people say it's a bit too "rainbows & unicorns", but I actually think her "I'm more than the Spymaster, Left Hand and Bard" lines is very in character, and sort of sets her back on track. Her hardened demeanour is frankly terrifying. 
I think it's a bit too extreme, even if it is a logical progression for her personality to take. The execution of hardening her is even more extreme than Origins.
Plus, both the Warden and Justinia would be very sad to see her take that route. I genuinely believe Justinia loved her and regretted making use of her morally grey abilities, and wanted her to find peace once she was gone.
Have you seen the Divine Leliana thread...?
I reconciled them too, after reading TME. Their relationship is complex, probably even a bit screwed up. Still, I did want a romantic ending.
Am I the only one who thought Leliana's willingness to kill Celene slightly OOC? I know she can be ruthless and pragmatic, but even so... I wanted Celene to rule, even on her own. That said, I didn't actually want Gaspard executed either. Le sigh.
I always lean towards softening Leliana in Inquisition. I know people say it's a bit too "rainbows & unicorns", but I actually think her "I'm more than the Spymaster, Left Hand and Bard" lines is very in character, and sort of sets her back on track. Her hardened demeanour is frankly terrifying.
Plus, both the Warden and Justinia would be very sad to see her take that route. I genuinely believe Justinia loved her and regretted making use of her morally grey abilities, and wanted her to find peace once she was gone.
One of the things I dislike about WEWH is you can only get Gaspard or Briala as rulers by letting a murder to be done while your Inquisitor does nothing at all. It turns a political choice into a moral one.
I'm not sure about what to think of Justinia, and there's a part of me very critical to her. She seemed to regret making use of Leli's bard training. In fact it seems that was her greatest regret in life but as mother Dorothea she knew what Marjolaine did to Leliana, how couldn't she know what was she doing to Leli asking her to be the Left Hand? Why didn't she try to speak with Leli whenever she realised what was happening? In my mind is Justinia who should have taken the decission to encourage Leliana's moral side or encourage her to accept her grey side. Maybe Justinia realised it too late, but still, a part of me doesn't like at all the way she treated Leliana. Her message in the box was going to be delivered to Leliana after she died. There's some cowardice and hypocrisy in that kind of acting: "I know I'm hurting someone I love, but I'm not moving a finger to repair the damage untill I'm dead" 
Letting Celene die is fairly tame compared to some of the actions Leliana recommends on the war table, not to mention killing Natalie.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'll agree on that. But I tend to avoid her on a lot of those war table ops too. Probably use Josie more than others.
Letting Celene die is fairly tame compared to some of the actions Leliana recommends on the war table, not to mention killing Natalie.
That is a pretty senseless killing. Natalie has no weapon and she is alone. She is no threat at the moment. And Grand Cleric Victoire. What can she do? Unless she has her own mercenaries, how could she do anything to harm the Inquisition?
Not to mention that the message is of no worth whatsoever to anyone who isn't Leliana.
I'm not sure about what to think of Justinia, and there's a part of me very critical to her. She seemed to regret making use of Leli's bard training. In fact it seems that was her greatest regret in life but as mother Dorothea she knew what Marjolaine did to Leliana, how couldn't she know what was she doing to Leli asking her to be the Left Hand? Why didn't she try to speak with Leli whenever she realised what was happening? In my mind is Justinia who should have taken the decission to encourage Leliana's moral side or encourage her to accept her grey side. Maybe Justinia realised it too late, but still, a part of me doesn't like at all the way she treated Leliana. Her message in the box was going to be delivered to Leliana after she died. There's some cowardice and hypocrisy in that kind of acting: "I know I'm hurting someone I love, but I'm not moving a finger to repair the damage untill I'm dead"
There's definitely room to be critical of her. In my headcanon, the Warden had a few choice words over the years!! I like to think of it as Justinia was essentially a good person, with good reforms in mind for the Chantry. Kind of like the Chantry's answer to Pope John XXIII. We saw how long he lasted... 
They would not be popular or easy to implement, so she needed someone like Leliana. They both saw themselves as doing what was necessary to do the Maker's work. Still, it was sad they way it all turned out. 
I can't bring myself to harden her, I just can't.
That is a pretty senseless killing. Natalie has no weapon and she is alone. She is no threat at the moment. And Grand Cleric Victoire. What can she do? Unless she has her own mercenaries, how could she do anything to harm the Inquisition?
Not to mention that the message is of no worth whatsoever to anyone who isn't Leliana.
Letting Celene die is fairly tame compared to some of the actions Leliana recommends on the war table, not to mention killing Natalie.
The worst one is the mission you get from the tavern bard. It is to deal with another bard who is spreading lies, if I remember correctly. Leliana recommends having the person's tongue cut out.
The worst one is the mission you get from the tavern bard. It is to deal with another bard who is spreading lies, if I remember correctly. Leliana recommends having the person's tongue cut out.
Ouch, yes! That one was awful. Come back sweet Leliana, come back!
That is a pretty senseless killing. Natalie has no weapon and she is alone. She is no threat at the moment. And Grand Cleric Victoire. What can she do? Unless she has her own mercenaries, how could she do anything to harm the Inquisition?
Not to mention that the message is of no worth whatsoever to anyone who isn't Leliana.
Well, Natalie does drop a rather nasty dagger if killed.
But yes, I find that incident somewhat out of character. It doesn't really seem to fit with what they were going for even with hardened Leliana - it makes me really wish we had a "fire Leliana" option, if not an "arrest and sentence to join the Wardens" option.
naw. we needed a hug therapy option. looking at bae in Origins as i play now and DAI Leli..."Harpo, who dis woman?"
she needs a hug and some way to relax for 5 minutes. I felt like a worried parent in DAI trying to notice SOMEthing positive..."Well she's sitting down more so that's good"
She needs a few minutes alone with the Warden...
But yes, even a hardened Leliana wouldn't have killed Natalie IMO. They were close once. Natalie is just naive and being played by Grand Cleric Victoire. Even a hardened Leliana would have had an understanding of her situation.
naw. we needed a hug therapy option. looking at bae in Origins as i play now and DAI Leli..."Harpo, who dis woman?"
she needs a hug and some way to relax for 5 minutes. I felt like a worried parent in DAI trying to notice SOMEthing positive..."Well she's sitting down more so that's good"
Found it via Google pictures. The link supposedly led back to BSN. The stuff you learn sometimes...
Found it via Google pictures. The link supposedly led back to BSN. The stuff you learn sometimes...
mine was from The Color Purple movie though...long before DAO ever existed
Perfectly reminded me of Isolde's "WHU EEEZ DIS WUHMAN TIIGAN?"
Found it via Google pictures. The link supposedly led back to BSN. The stuff you learn sometimes...
I just spluttered coffee all over myself.
Leli seems to really love Orzammar and i don't remember this the last 50 times i played the game. She's all "i need a moment to take in the scene" and I'm like of what? rock and lava?
Only sweet Leliana could love that never ending bloody place! Although, that's where the nugs live.
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