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Sister Nightingale: Leliana in DA:I Appreciation&Discussion (Nope, still not romanceable)


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#12876
FadelessRipley

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...lawd I just had a feel.

I now headcanon that Morrigan will name her 'sister' the Warden and Leliana Kieran's 'godparents,' in case anything happens to her. Her dialogue about what will happen to Kieran if she dies at the Well gets me thinking.

HEADCANON ACCEPTED

Snapsies! I've always believed she would entrust Kieran to the Warden if anything happened to her. Who else would she trust? While I tend to headcanon that she and Alistair secretly had feels under all the snark, she promised him Kieran wouldn't complicate his being King, etc. The Warden is the only one she would trust. <3 



#12877
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Snapsies! I've always believed she would entrust Kieran to the Warden if anything happened to her. Who else would she trust? While I tend to headcanon that she and Alistair secretly had feels under all the snark, she promised him Kieran wouldn't complicate his being King, etc. The Warden is the only one she would trust. <3


Yeah, if you befriended her, the Warden is the only person Morrigan ever opened up to and trusted enough to let them see her softer side. It's actually pretty plausible her backup plan with Kieran was for him to seek her out should tragedy strike and Morrigan can no longer care for him.

I love the Warden/Morrigan sister arc so much. <3
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#12878
GrinningRogue

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Which makes me hope Flemeth is really dead this time. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like they'll ever be safe.

#12879
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Which makes me hope Flemeth is really dead this time. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like they'll ever be safe.


I kinda saw that really feelsy 'You were never in any danger from me.' scene as the end of Flemeth being a threat to Morrigan. Mind you, if she drank from the Well there's a whole nother aspect...

Kinda depressing this is the only way my Warden will ever meet Kieran. Who she did have a role in the creation of. Which means she's likely never going to.

#12880
FadelessRipley

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Yeah, if you befriended her, the Warden is the only person Morrigan ever opened up to and trusted enough to let them see her softer side. It's actually pretty plausible her backup plan with Kieran was for him to seek her out should tragedy strike and Morrigan can no longer care for him.

I love the Warden/Morrigan sister arc so much.  <3

Same. It's even better than a romance, IMO. Though Warden had a few feels for a while, until the sexy Chantry sister came along.  :ph34r: The Witch Hunt feels were so much better with high friendship. It's a pity you couldn't flag high friendships from Origins in the Keep, so it could be represented in dialogue with whichever character wasn't romanced. You could in a sense with Varric for DA2...

 

 

I kinda saw that really feelsy 'You were never in any danger from me.' scene as the end of Flemeth being a threat to Morrigan. Mind you, if she drank from the Well there's a whole nother aspect...

Kinda depressing this is the only way my Warden will ever meet Kieran/see Morrigan again. Which means she's likely never going to.

Those scenes were best in the game bar none IMO. It certainly seems like Flemeth wasn't truly a danger all along, which makes it so sad. :( Also my Stolen Throne is very rusty, but didn't Yavana sort of explain this - something about misunderstanding the Grimoire's text? 

 

If Morrigan ends up as Solas' ***** I will be furious...  :angry:  :angry:



#12881
Basement Cat

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I kinda saw that really feelsy 'You were never in any danger from me.' scene as the end of Flemeth being a threat to Morrigan. Mind you, if she drank from the Well there's a whole nother aspect...

Kinda depressing this is the only way my Warden will ever meet Kieran/see Morrigan again. Which means she's likely never going to.

There's a theory floating around (in my head) that Flemeth doesn't intend to harm or possess Morrigan at all. Flemeth wants to create new gods to battle the old gods and undo their mess. The old gods led the world to destruction, so she'll make new ones that will lead it to restoration. Look at Solas: he had the best of  intentions and he almost destroyed the world because the guy has a lot of knowledge and no wisdom (giving that orb to Cory? Really? He seems trustworthy to you? Idiot).

 

Morrigan makes mistakes out of ignorance, not foolishness. Once she learns her lesson, it sticks. See how she raises Kieran. *heacanon activate*

 

I really like the idea of 'auntie Leliana'. Ooh! Christmas idea!

 

Morrigan gets enchanted paper for Leliana that only shows what's written on it if you say the right code phrase. (what? We gets eavesdropping crystals, why not secret paper?). For Kieran, she gets him a book about history/herbalism/fauna/etc. Something he can study, basically.

 

Leliana gets some rare plant saplings for Morrigan. (she always focuses on gathering herbs at the war table). For Kieran, she gives him one of her birds to keep as a pet!

 

Kieran would get jewelry for his mother and shoes for Leliana, of course. He has an eye for taste after all.

 

What the Warden gets depends, but kissing time under the mistletoe with Leliana is a must.:D


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#12882
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Saddest scene in the game. Bar none.

Spoiler


Same. It's even better than a romance, IMO. Though Warden had a few feels for a while, until the sexy Chantry sister came along. :ph34r: The Witch Hunt feels were so much better with high friendship. It's a pity you couldn't flag high friendships from Origins in the Keep, so it could be represented in dialogue with whichever character wasn't romanced. You could in a sense with Varric for DA2...


I don't actually think my Warden was ever attracted to Morrigan in any way. I mean, she got an eye full every time she talked to her, but thinking of her like that might make her scoff. :S

Leliana tho...she was smitten.

There's a theory floating around (in my head) that Flemeth doesn't intend to harm or possess Morrigan at all. Flemeth wants to create new gods to battle the old gods and undo their mess. The old gods led the world to destruction, so she'll make new ones that will lead it to restoration. Look at Solas: he had the best of intentions and he almost destroyed the world because the guy has a lot of knowledge and no wisdom (giving that orb to Cory? Really? He seems trustworthy to you? Idiot).

Morrigan makes mistakes out of ignorance, not foolishness. Once she learns her lesson, it sticks. See how she raises Kieran. *heacanon activate*

I really like the idea of 'auntie Leliana'. Ooh! Christmas idea!

Morrigan gets enchanted paper for Leliana that only shows what's written on it if you say the right code phrase. (what? We gets eavesdropping crystals, why not secret paper?). For Kieran, she gets him a book about history/herbalism/fauna/etc. Something he can study, basically.

Leliana gets some rare plant saplings for Morrigan. (she always focuses on gathering herbs at the war table). For Kieran, she gives him one of her birds to keep as a pet!

Kieran would get jewelry for his mother and shoes for Leliana, of course. He has an eye for taste after all.

What the Warden gets depends, but kissing time under the mistletoe with Leliana is a must.:D


Awww.

In my case, Auntie Mahariel gives Lels a griffon, Kieran a mabari puppy, and Morrigan...I don't know.
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#12883
Basement Cat

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Saddest scene in the game. Bar none.

Spoiler



I don't actually think my Warden was ever attracted to Morrigan in any way. I mean, she got an eye full every time she talked to her, but thinking of her like that might make her scoff. :S


Awww.

In my case, Auntie Mahariel gives Lels a griffon, Kieran a mabari puppy, and Morrigan...I don't know.

Because Ranger!Leliana is canon. CANON I SAY! *ahem* Anyway, I like the idea of Leliana being both a bard (civilization) and a ranger (wilderness). She's at home and is a dangerous predator in either. Besides it would explain how she is so good with animals. Leliana is the freaking beastmaster. Now I'm imagining Leliana employing animal assassins...



#12884
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I generally headcanon my Mahariel gave Leliana hunting/tracking/general ranger lessons, whereas Leliana taught her the more subtle arts. Not that she learned, she still sucks at them. :S
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#12885
Basement Cat

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I generally headcanon my Mahariel gave Leliana hunting/tracking/general ranger lessons, whereas Leliana taught her the more subtle arts. Not that she learned, she still sucks at them. :S

Hehehe. I justify my Tabris being a ranger by imagining she used rats and pigeons to distract guards while she merrily went along burglarizing wealthy houses. :D



#12886
thats1evildude

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Saddest scene in the game. Bar none.

 

Sadder than this, even?

 



#12887
WildOrchid

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Sadder than this, even?

 

 

I'm not crying, you're crying.

 

 

Srsly tho, i'll never leave Hawke in the fade. Mostly bc I love Hawke and i don't like seeing Varric sad.



#12888
AresKeith

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Because Ranger!Leliana is canon. CANON I SAY! *ahem* Anyway, I like the idea of Leliana being both a bard (civilization) and a ranger (wilderness). She's at home and is a dangerous predator in either. Besides it would explain how she is so good with animals. Leliana is the freaking beastmaster. Now I'm imagining Leliana employing animal assassins...

 

I only made Leliana a Ranger because it looked more out of place on Zevran lol



#12889
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I left Hawke in the Fade. That scene is definitely a gutpunch.

...oh god, can you imagine if some of the speculations that the Warden was meant to be Hawke's contact at some point were true, and they could be left in the Fade? And Leliana's reaction to it if you did? Unghhhh. Hawke would have to be left every time. Justinia and the Warden back to back would probably make her cease to function properly. :(

#12890
FadelessRipley

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Sadder than this, even?
 


Leaving Hawke in the Fade is impossible in my world, so these feels do not exist. :P Seriously though, I think the only way it's in any way conscionable for me is if you have Alistair as a Warden. God, that would have been horrible!! Though mind you, I barely recognised DA:I Alistair, so I probably could have convinced myself it wasn't him. :rolleyes:


I left Hawke in the Fade. That scene is definitely a gutpunch.
...oh god, can you imagine if some of the speculations that the Warden was meant to be Hawke's contact at some point were true, and they could be left in the Fade? And Leliana's reaction to it if you did? Unghhhh. Hawke would have to be left every time. Justinia and the Warden back to back would probably make her cease to function properly. :(


This would have been the ultimate Nightmare Moment in the entire series. *shudders* :o

The scenes with Morrigan and Flemeth in the Fade were unbelievable. It's the only time this game made me tear up. It was heartbreaking. :(

#12891
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This would have been the ultimate Nightmare Moment in the entire series. *shudders* :o

 

Especially if the situation was changed a bit, and Leliana is the one who lead the Inquisitor to the Warden rather than Hawke. 

 

Then not only would she be thinking she failed Justinia by not being there when she died, she'd probably be thinking the Warden is dead because she needed them to be there for her. Leliana...would not be in a good place. 

 

...yeah, I'm certainly glad this didn't happen. :S

 

The scenes with Morrigan and Flemeth in the Fade were unbelievable. It's the only time this game made me tear up. It was heartbreaking. :(

 

Particularly if Flemeth is dead for good. It almost seemed like there was a chance of them reconciling...I almost think Morrigan wanted to when she was calling for her to come back as she stepped out of the Fade. 


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#12892
FadelessRipley

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Especially if the situation was changed a bit, and Leliana is the one who lead the Inquisitor to the Warden rather than Hawke. 
 
Then not only would she be thinking she failed Justinia by not being there when she died, she'd probably be thinking the Warden is dead because she needed them to be there for her. Leliana...would not be in a good place. 
 
...yeah, I'm certainly glad this didn't happen. :S
 

 
Especially if Flemeth is dead for good. It almost seemed like there was a chance of them reconciling...I almost think Morrigan wanted to when she was calling for her to come back as she stepped out of the Fade.


I think she did. :( :( My heart broke a little bit there. I hope Morrigan finds the Warden wherever she is and has a heart to heart about it all. Though poor Warden will feel a bit bad for killing Flemeth now! :-/ She had to, though. She'd do anything to protect Morrigan. She was even willing to go through the Eluvian. Which, in hindsight, was a good thing that wasn't an option - Leliana would have been furious! :o I headcanon Morrigan was truly touched, and tempted, but she wouldn't take her away from Leliana.

#12893
Basement Cat

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Especially if Flemeth is dead for good. It almost seemed like there was a chance of them reconciling...I almost think Morrigan wanted to when she was calling for her to come back as she stepped out of the Fade. 

All Morrigan ever wanted was to be loved. That's why she became so protective of Kieran. He loves her like only a child can love his mother and it changed her radically.

 

I can imagine the moment her inner walls crumbled to dust: when Kieran smiled at her for the first time. There is something about a baby's smile that just gets you right in the feels. And then as he grew the stories he would tell her of things he saw, people he met and things he did that day. That childlike wonder would have gone straight to her heart since she never got a chance to enjoy it herself.

 

Morrigan and Leliana are both dreamers who wanted to love and be loved, but were denied true affection by women who manipulated them for their own ends. Interestingly Morrigan gets to confront Flemeth directly and we see Flemeth try to make it right by her at the end even if she doesn't tell her the whole truth. Leliana never had that. Marjolaine was wholly unrepentant while Justinia never apologized to her face. It was through hidden messages and a post mortem confession relayed by a spirit to the Inquisitor and then to Leliana.

 

Oddly appropriate when we think how direct Morrigan is while still concealing some information (like the fact that she can read Elven), whereas Leliana is more subtle and indirect. Morrigan also bares her heart in that scene with Flemeth and Kieran while Leliana keeps her back turned when she asks about what Justinia said in the Fade.

 

SYMBOLISM!! *ahem*


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#12894
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While I wish the Warden was actually Hawke's contact in Inquisition instead of Alistair/Stroud/Loghain, thinking about what would happen to Leliana if the Warden was left in the Fade is guaranteed to destroy me.

 

For me that little stunt cemented my dislike (not hate, dislike) of her. She was too much of a coward to face Leliana and admit she had done wrong by her. Oh no. Instead she made it so that Leliana would be released after she had no further need of her.

 

So Justinia felt remorse for her actions, but she could never face them. She apologizes in death, but even then it's through someone else. She doesn't have to see Leliana's distraught expression when she hears those words.

 

Justinia has a fair bit of tragedy to her in that she knew that Leliana idolized her and could not bring herself to shatter the illusion because she didn't want to hurt her nightingale. The problem is that by maintaining the facade she twisted Leliana's mind. So she backed herself into a corner: either keep twisting and poisonning Leliana's mind or break her heart.

 

Justinia is an interesting character, but man do I want to slap her silly. LOOK WHAT YOU DID TO MY BABY!!!!

 

Agree.

While there's no doubt that Justinia loved Leliana like a daughter and never intended to consciously hurt her, her greed for power and her paranoia both physically and emotionally scarred Leliana. Leliana may have been emotionally unstable ever since Marjolaine betrayed her and threw her into the prison, but it was Justinia who brought Leliana's emotional scars to a whole new level. And that Justinia was a coward, we can all agree, with the fact she told Leliana the truth after she died. She was aware that Leliana idolized her and admired her a lot and there is some tragedy to it, still, the fact that she cared more about what Leliana thought of her and not what's best for Leliana is selfish on her part.

 

In my headcanon, Justinia never really trusted the Warden, even though she played nice around the Warden for Leliana's sake. She saw them as another Marjolaine figure who would use Leliana and considering a warden's life span and the Calling, according to Justinia, the relationship can only end in tragedy. How ironic that Justinia was the one who used Leliana and hurt her despite the fact she constantly threatened the Warden that it was him/her who would damage Leliana more.

 

I headcanon that my Mahariel, after saying his goodbye to Leliana, payed a secret visit to Justinia before he went on his quest. I can imagine that being one heated row with lots of threats and accusations, mostly on Justinia's part.

 

And I also headcanon Cassandra chasing my Warden out of the Grand Cathedral after his meeting with Justinia. *disgusted noise* There was probably a silent agreement between them not to tell Leliana about that.  :wacko:


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#12895
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I think she did. :( :( My heart broke a little bit there. I hope Morrigan finds the Warden wherever she is and has a heart to heart about it all. Though poor Warden will feel a bit bad for killing Flemeth now! :-/ She had to, though. She'd do anything to protect Morrigan. She was even willing to go through the Eluvian. Which, in hindsight, was a good thing that wasn't an option - Leliana would have been furious! :o I headcanon Morrigan was truly touched, and tempted, but she wouldn't take her away from Leliana.

 

Oh wow, my Warden was definitely willing to offer any help she could provide and tried to let her know that she could always count on her when she needs her, but she never offered to go through the Eluvian with her. Too much risk there, no way she'd do that with Leliana out there waiting for her. Kinda sad thinking that's probably the last time they're ever going to see each other.

 

The Warden friendship moments in Witch Hunt were pretty feelsy, though. 

 

W: "I didn't come here to fight you." 

M: *some expression between conflict and sadness* "I...did not think that you had." 

 

Aww. 

 

Where was Leliana during Witch Hunt anyway? I always wondered what her thoughts were on my Warden's sort of unlikely bond with Morrigan. 

 

 

All Morrigan ever wanted was to be loved. That's why she became so protective of Kieran. He loves her like only a child can love his mother and it changed her radically.

 

I can imagine the moment her inner walls crumbled to dust: when Kieran smiled at her for the first time. There is something about a baby's smile that just gets you right in the feels. And then as he grew the stories he would tell her of things he saw, people he met and things he did that day. That childlike wonder would have gone straight to her heart since she never got a chance to enjoy it herself.

 

Morrigan and Leliana are both dreamers who wanted to love and be loved, but were denied true affection by women who manipulated them for their own ends. Interestingly Morrigan gets to confront Flemeth directly and we see Flemeth try to make it right by her at the end even if she doesn't tell her the whole truth. Leliana never had that. Marjolaine was wholly unrepentant while Justinia never apologized to her face. It was through hidden messages and a post mortem confession relayed by a spirit to the Inquisitor and then to Leliana.

 

Oddly appropriate when we think how direct Morrigan is while still concealing some information (like the fact that she can read Elven), whereas Leliana is more subtle and indirect. Morrigan also bares her heart in that scene with Flemeth and Kieran while Leliana keeps her back turned when she asks about what Justinia said in the Fade.

 

SYMBOLISM!! *ahem*

 

They really did branch off into two wildly different paths, didn't they. The role reversal between Leliana and Morrigan has always been one of the more interesting things in this game. Another good parallel is that Morrigan could have become a mother, while Leliana might as well have just lost her's. 

 

And strangely, them more or less switching places seems to have caused the two of them to get along better than they ever had. I guess they both see things from one another's side now, somewhat. They're still two very different people with two very different lives behind them, but I reckon they can both find common ground now on the basis of having come a long way since they last spoke. 

 

I like to think there was some off-screen scene that really should have been an on-screen scene where Leliana and Morrigan take a stroll through the garden, reminiscing about the old days, the past ten years, their mutual friend in the Warden, Kieran, so on. 

 

Ah, Leliana and Morrigan. Such delightful bundles of character development they have been. 


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#12896
FadelessRipley

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Oh wow, my Warden was definitely willing to offer any help she could provide and tried to let her know that she could always count on her when she needs her, but she never offered to go through the Eluvian with her. Too much risk there, no way she'd do that with Leliana out there waiting for her. Kinda sad thinking that's probably the last time they're ever going to see each other.
 
The Warden friendship moments in Witch Hunt were pretty feelsy, though. 
 
W: "I didn't come here to fight you." 
M: *some expression between conflict and sadness* "I...did not think that you had." 
 
Aww. 
 
Where was Leliana during Witch Hunt anyway? I always wondered what her thoughts were on my Warden's bond with Morrigan. 
 


I'm a little rusty but IIRC, Witch Hunt is set after Awakenings. Actually it has to be just under a year at least, because Kieran is born. So possibly Leliana is still on Val Royeaux? I always assumed it was Dorothea who sent for her, but her letter says Grand Cleric and Leliana says Dorothea was still Revered Mother when they visited Valence. Of course, writer oversight is completely possible there.

Yeah I know, it always seemed strange to me. Not sure why I did it - it was a true RPing in the moment, er, moment. :D My Warden was terrified for Morrigan and didn't want her to leave. My Warden's feelings for Morrigan are very strong - *slightly* stronger than they should be, though she loves Leliana dearly and she's her true love. Possibly an "another life, another time" situation.

Leliana back then was a little bit insecure and jealous of their bond, and Morrigan did wind her up about it on occasion. What she doesn't know is that when the Warden was sad and conflicted after Wynne's little lecture, it was actually Morrigan who rolled her eyes and told her to ignore the "foolish old Circle Mage" and pursue her happiness. Again, the Warden was threatened with grievous bodily harm if it was ever mentioned. :D

Once the Warden confided how Morrigan had saved her life, she was grateful. She never fully trusted Morrigan but accepted that the Warden is just about the only person in Thedas who does. :rolleyes: I've got a few other headcanon bits that I really should stop boring people with. Maybe I should listen to my best mate and just write a bloody fanfic story! :D
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#12897
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I'm a little rusty but IIRC, Witch Hunt is set after Awakenings. Actually it has to be just under a year at least, because Kieran is born. So possibly Leliana is still on Val Royeaux? I always assumed it was Dorothea who sent for her, but her letter says Grand Cleric and Leliana says Dorothea was still Revered Mother when they visited Valence. Of course, writer oversight is completely possible there.

 

Hmm, according to the timeline, Witch Hunt happened in 9:32, which is two years before Leliana became Left Hand. So...I guess she was just away on some other business briefly like she was in Awakening. 

 

I'm not really sure when exactly Leliana and the Warden visiting Dorothea happened. Leliana made it sound like it was shortly after the Blight, so I'm thinking perhaps that was before even Awakening. 

 

Yeah I know, it always seemed strange to me. Not sure why I did it - it was a true RPing in the moment, er, moment. :D My Warden was terrified for Morrigan and didn't want her to leave. My Warden's feelings for Morrigan are very strong - *slightly* stronger than they should be, though she loves Leliana dearly and she's her true love. Possibly an "another life, another time" situation.

 

In my case, I reckon my Warden would give a very similar answer to what Leliana said of her bond with Justinia if you asked her about Morrigan. More than just friends, yes, but never that way. Not that it could even if my Warden thought of her like that. Maybe comparable to Leliana and Josephine too; she's a sister. Like the Inquisitor suggesting Josephine having a history with Leliana, the very suggestion of that with Morrigan would make her scoff. :S

 

I've got a few other headcanon bits that I really should stop boring people with

 

Please don't, hearing other people's takes on the characters, their characters, their characters and the characters, general headcanons, and blabbering on about my own is my favourite part of this thread.  :)


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#12898
FadelessRipley

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In my case, I reckon my Warden would give a very similar answer to what Leliana said of her bond with Justinia if you asked her about Morrigan. More than just friends, yes, but never that way. Not that it could even if my Warden thought of her like that. Maybe comparable to Leliana and Josephine too; she's a sister. Like the Inquisitor suggesting Josephine having a history with Leliana, the very suggestion of that with Morrigan would make her scoff. :S
 


Yes, that's pretty much it, though there are little seeds of feels that will be forever dormant. :) I did the same with Miranda and FemShep too, just for some delicious angst - seems I like that! :rolleyes: A very good thing they scrapped making Miranda a bi romance option - that would have been HARD given how things are with Shep and Liara at the start. Definite temptation there, but once again it became a strong platonic bond.

Please don't, hearing other people's takes on the characters, their characters, their characters and the characters, general headcanons, and blabbering on about my own is my favourite part of this thread.  :)


Right so, don't say you weren't warned! :D
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#12899
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I left Hawke in the Fade. That scene is definitely a gutpunch.

...oh god, can you imagine if some of the speculations that the Warden was meant to be Hawke's contact at some point were true, and they could be left in the Fade? And Leliana's reaction to it if you did? Unghhhh. Hawke would have to be left every time. Justinia and the Warden back to back would probably make her cease to function properly. :(

Nah. If the Hero of Ferelden could take down the Harvester with a half-functioning golem and two dwarven scrubs, she could at least survive against the Nightmare.


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Nah. If the Hero of Ferelden could take down the Harvester with a half-functioning golem and two dwarven scrubs, she could at least survive against the Nightmare.

 

Well, even so, she'd kind of be stuck there unless someone got her out. Which...gives her, like, a few days unless she can sustain herself on Fade goop. 

 

It's a grim fate either way for whoever is left in the physical Fade...