15912 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr Plow]

And for Divine Vivienne she would be sitting right next to the Black Divine pretending to laugh at his jokes and schmoozing and networking with magisters shamelessly

[Andreas Amell]

I finished playing with a Qunari warrior Inquisitor. I didn't endorse anybody for Divine and Leliana got the job. To my surprise the epilogue doesn't mention any harsh tactics by her to control the rival factions. She apparently convinced them to follow her. Go figure. Since there was no re-instated Circle the College of Enchanters were accepted by Thedas. I don't think I'll go back to change anything.

[LadyStoneheart]

Cassandra probably just offers if Leliana becomes Divine because we all know how duty-oriented she is - and I'm guessing Leliana most certainly does not offer to be Left Hand for Cassandra. 

 

I'm pretty sure this is why Leliana refuses to take Cassandra as her Hand, and not necessarily because she hopes to give that position to the Warden. Cassandra is a warrior at heart, has no interest in politics and isn't that well-versed in The Game: I think at this point Leliana realizes Cass would serve her only because she feels obliged to, and that it would't be that different from what Justinia did if she exploited her sense of duty for her own goals, keeping Cassandra from doing what she really wants.

[jlb524]

I finished playing with a Qunari warrior Inquisitor. I didn't endorse anybody for Divine and Leliana got the job. To my surprise the epilogue doesn't mention any harsh tactics by her to control the rival factions. She apparently convinced them to follow her. Go figure. Since there was no re-instated Circle the College of Enchanters were accepted by Thedas. I don't think I'll go back to change anything.

 

That happens if you convince Leliana to be more "softened" or whatever they're calling it now (i.e., she doesn't kill the traitor spy, doesn't kill Natalie, etc.).

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is why Leliana refuses to take Cassandra as her Hand, and not necessarily because she hopes to give that position to the Warden. Cassandra is a warrior at heart, has no interest in politics and isn't that well-versed in The Game: I think at this point Leliana realizes Cass would serve her only because she feels obliged to, and that it would't be that different from what Justinia did if she exploited her sense of duty for her own goals, keeping Cassandra from doing what she really wants.

 

That's a good point.  I just see Cassandra as better to rebuild the Seekers instead of playing politician.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Telling Cassandra to rebuild the Seekers was a no-brainer for me, personally. I don't know if it's the 'best' choice, but it just makes sense to me.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I don't see why Cassandra can't rebuild the Seekers as Divine. She'd just have to appoint a new Lord Seeker afterwards.

Frankly, I see her and Leliana as completely unfitting for the role when it comes down to it, Cass just has the advantage of being more mentally stable, not being any of my character's love interests, and being a bit more trustworthy than Viv. So...she's my no-brainer Divine. :S

[Basement Cat]

Cassandra and Leliana both share a concern for the common people, so that puts both of them above Vivienne as Divine in my book. Vivienne cares about order, but she really, really sucks at empathy. That is Cassandra's greatest strength, I find. She has a chronic hero syndrome going on she wants to do right by the people. Leliana understands the plight of commoners so she's good too. Vivienne? Not so much.

[LadyStoneheart]

I don't see why Cassandra can't rebuild the Seekers as Divine. She'd just have to appoint a new Lord Seeker afterwards.

Frankly, I see her and Leliana as completely unfitting for the role when it comes down to it, Cass just has the advantage of being more mentally stable, not being any of my character's love interests, and being a bit more trustworthy than Viv. So...she's my no-brainer Divine. :S

 

Well I expect she would have to personally travel across Thedas and look for the other Seekers. I doubt she can just give the task to common warriors or even Templars, and a Divine has other priorities.

 

I can't say I agree about Leliana, I think she is the most fitting for the role. Of course this doesn't mean she'll ever be Divine in my canon world state: she does need a break from all of this, with or without the Warden by her side. In the end I'm probably going to make Cassandra my canon Divine through the Keep because I don't really trust Vivienne with this kind of power, but I feel Cass doesn't want to be Divine more than she wants to become Leliana's Right Hand and I already said what I think about that decision.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Well I expect she would have to personally travel across Thedas and look for the other Seekers. I doubt she can just give the task to common warriors or even Templars, and a Divine has other priorities.

 

Well, my Inquisitor and the Inquisition would be more than willing to help her. 

 

I can't say I agree about Leliana, I think she is the most fitting for the role. Of course this doesn't mean she'll ever be Divine in my canon world state: she does need a break from all of this, with or without the Warden by her side. In the end I'm probably going to make Cassandra my canon Divine through the Keep because I don't really trust Vivienne with this kind of power, but I feel Cass doesn't want to be Divine more than she wants to become Leliana's Right Hand and I already said what I think about that decision.

 

I dunno...I just see the sunburst throne as a really weird place to take Leliana's character arc, that basically seemed completely out of the left field. It did for all three of them, admittedly. She's not exactly born to be a leader, and her mental state is...erratic at the best of times. I doubt that fancy chair would do her any favours. 

 

Doesn't really matter to me, as she's never Divine in my case, and I don't really feel like having a debate about it again in any event. I like my Divine Disgusted Noise I. :S

[Sports72Xtrm]

I don't know; I'm really hoping for a chance to see Leliana as Divine.

 

Also... what do people think about Cassandra apparently not wanting to be the Right Hand for Leliana if she's Divine?

I think Leliana doesn't want to sanction Cassandra because she might "interfere" with her reforms. They are politically opposed to each other's vision of what the new order should be. Lel's wants mages to be autonomous and the Inquisition to take the role of investigating corruption left vacant by the Seekers, curbtailing templar independence, Cass wants templars to have more agency which could step on others' jurisdiction in Divine Leliana's ending. Politically, it's a smart move for Leliana.

[LadyStoneheart]

Doesn't really matter to me, as she's never Divine in my case, and I don't really feel like having a debate about it again in any event. I like my Divine Disgusted Noise I. :S

 

I know, I wasn't trying to change your mind or start the millionth debate about this.

[N7_Heartfire]

In my opinion, any Divine candidate is good as long as it's not Vivienne. Just...no.

 

If you replay Inquisition a 2nd time, and did Vivienne's quests/exhausted all her conversations and scenes the first time, you come to understand that Vivienne planned to become Divine very early on, even before the Inquisition officially formed at Skyhold. She tried to set things up with her lover's sister who is a Grand Cleric and whose vote is very important in choosing the next Divine. She even admits she used you as the Inquisitor to further her own goals. 

 

Remember when the devs said Vivienne has a hidden agenda? Well, her becoming Divine is the case.

 

Cassandra, taking into account she is my Quizzy's love interest, she openly admits post-game she doesn't really want to be Divine, she's actually doing it for the greater good, sacrificing her own happiness. I feel a more natural progression for her character is becoming the Lord Seeker.

 

It would've been a real bummer if Weekes/Sheryl didn't confirm that the Warden gets married to Lels if she's Divine. I would've hated having to choose between my two fav Dragon Age romances. 

[Han Shot First]

In my opinion, any Divine candidate is good as long as it's not Vivienne. Just...no.

 

If you replay Inquisition a 2nd time, and did Vivienne's quests/exhausted all her conversations and scenes the first time, you come to understand that Vivienne planned to become Divine very early on, even before the Inquisition officially formed at Skyhold. She tried to set things up with her lover's sister who is a Grand Cleric and whose vote is very important in choosing the next Divine. She even admits she used you as the Inquisitor to further her own goals. 

 

 

I loved Vivienne's dialogue where she speaks about the Divine candidates. She suggests herself to the Inquisitor not by naming herself as a candidate, but by openly pointing out Leliana's shortcomings, subtly hinting at Cassandra's, and in the process of naming what Cassandra lacks happens to suggest ideal characteristics that align with Viviennes strengths. If the Inquisitor then responds with, "You'd make a great Divine!" like they'd just had a eureka moment, Vivienne led him/her to that conclusion.

 

I know a lot of people hate her around these parts, but it is one of the reasons why I think she is a great character. I think Cassandra is the best choice for Divine though. 

[ThePhoenixKing]

Cassandra and Leliana both share a concern for the common people, so that puts both of them above Vivienne as Divine in my book. Vivienne cares about order, but she really, really sucks at empathy. That is Cassandra's greatest strength, I find. She has a chronic hero syndrome going on she wants to do right by the people. Leliana understands the plight of commoners so she's good too. Vivienne? Not so much.

 

Yeah, Vivienne sucks. The next Divine needs to be someone who actually gives a damn about others, and strives to actively make the world a better place, not some authoritarian games-player who's willing to kill any mage that doesn't join her rebuilt Circle, but is happy to avoid getting locked up herself. With Cass and Leliana, you definitely get the sense that they'd be willing to hold themselves to the standards they set for everyone else. Vivienne? "Oh, the rules are for little people, darling. I'm a special case."

[thesuperdarkone2]

Yeah, Vivienne sucks. The next Divine needs to be someone who actually gives a damn about others, and strives to actively make the world a better place, not some authoritarian games-player who's willing to kill any mage that doesn't join her rebuilt Circle, but is happy to avoid getting locked up herself. With Cass and Leliana, you definitely get the sense that they'd be willing to hold themselves to the standards they set for everyone else. Vivienne? "Oh, the rules are for little people, darling. I'm a special case."

Also doesn't help that she's the only Divine that doesn't dedicate the Chantry to charity or openly declares support for the Inquisition.

[Xilizhra]

Divine Victoria making her entrance to the Black Divine's dinner party in DA 4

 

 

Black Divine giving a speech to all his guests at the dinner table when an arrow flies past his head into a nearby wall with a BOING comedy sound effect.  

 

Then you see Leliana all  

Don't sell the Black Divine short... he probably already has a barrier up.

 

 

I dunno...I just see the sunburst throne as a really weird place to take Leliana's character arc, that basically seemed completely out of the left field. It did for all three of them, admittedly. She's not exactly born to be a leader, and her mental state is...erratic at the best of times. I doubt that fancy chair would do her any favours.

I think her leadership as spymaster is perfectly adequate, and... I don't know, it seems to me like it's the most satisfactory place for her arc. She gets to take her unique vision all the way to the top and finally start fixing the Chantry's problems.

[Master Warder Z_]

I doubt that fancy chair would do her any favours.

Divine Joffery?

o.o I'm tempted to quote a line now.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I don't know, it seems to me like it's the most satisfactory place for her arc. She gets to take her unique vision all the way to the top and finally start fixing the Chantry's problems.

 

Meh. I prefer her moving on from all this BS that's brought her so much misery and perhaps finding a genuinely happy life again, for once, like she wanted from the start. That last bit is a perfectly valid place for Cassandra to go too. 

 

But, *sips coffee.* whatever. I've had too many debates about this by now, just the way I see it. As we all evidently have different ways. 

 

 

X

[Miss Quisitor]

It's funny but in DA:O Leliana was all against killing while in DA:I she is all for killing. What 10 years can do to a person. But you already knew this.  .

 

I had to say something.

[LadyStoneheart]

If you replay Inquisition a 2nd time, and did Vivienne's quests/exhausted all her conversations and scenes the first time, you come to understand that Vivienne planned to become Divine very early on, even before the Inquisition officially formed at Skyhold. She tried to set things up with her lover's sister who is a Grand Cleric and whose vote is very important in choosing the next Divine. She even admits she used you as the Inquisitor to further her own goals. 

 

Remember when the devs said Vivienne has a hidden agenda? Well, her becoming Divine is the case.

I still can't believe she tricked me into thinking she considered Cass the best candidate ("You should really support her, my dear") while quietly working behind my back to become Divine herself. Oh, but I'll be more careful next time

[Basement Cat]

I still can't believe she tricked me into thinking she considered Cass the best candidate ("You should really support her, my dear") while quietly working behind my back to become Divine herself. Oh, but I'll be more careful next time

Definite props to Mary Kirby for writing such a subtle character. I don't like Vivienne, but she is very believable as an expert manipulator. I wonder if she'll be able to trick her way to the Maker's side when she goes to the after life... (if there is such a thing in the DA setting, of course.)

[Andreas Amell]

It's funny how fans mention the Black Divine. I imagined with story with Tevinter would start with the Black Divine getting killed outside the Magisterium.

[Mr Plow]

DA 4 should start with The Warden falling out of the sky and landing on the Black Divine cushioning the Warden's landing

 

 

That opening scene alone will win over goodness knows how many DA fans

[Master Warder Z_]

Not me.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I still can't believe she tricked me into thinking she considered Cass the best candidate ("You should really support her, my dear") while quietly working behind my back to become Divine herself. Oh, but I'll be more careful next time

Jokes on her, my completely oblivious Inquisitor 'agreed' with her, pushed for Cassandra, and succeeded in making Cass Divine without ever even suggesting Vivienne as a candidate. Her plan kinda backfires when I do exactly what she says she wants.