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Sister Nightingale: Leliana in DA:I Appreciation&Discussion (Nope, still not romanceable)


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#14576
Serza

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Chronologically, yes it makes the most sense. That DLC was actually the first thing I played from Origins so I didn't know Lels was gonna get betrayed, so yeah, that dungeon scene and what it implied got me really fast.

 

The DLC went from fun to really dark in a second. I was like, Biowr, wtf, I didn't ask for this... for the rest of the DLC. Got me pumped to romance her in the main game though, :P

 

Same here. I played Leliana's Song first, and it was damn hard. Especially that one Mage encounter. He kept single-handedly killing my party, until Leliana stealthed and backstabbed the hell out of him. Oh, the good ol' Tacticool times.

 

Story was kind of messed up, and I mean that in a good way.

 

I believe in WoT 2, it has Leliana's backstory much closer to how she explains it in the core Origins experience; Marjorline betrayed her in Orlais itself, she didn't really step in Ferelden beforehand, and the Red Iron weren't really involved. That said, I'm going by the preview information that was posted on this thread a while back; despite my best efforts, I haven't been able to find a copy of WoT 2 at any bookstore I go into (even the big ones), so if I'm confused any details, please feel free to correct me/slap me upside the head.

 

Does anything change for us? I thought we assumed for a long time that Leliana's Song was her spinning the tale a bit, while she told the Warden the truth. As far as I know, the thing you describe is written in WoT 2 is what she tells the Warden.


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#14577
N7_Heartfire

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wOe5LYr.png

 

http://burritorat.tumblr.com/

 

What do you mean this isn't canon? :3


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#14578
Basement Cat

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*snip of cuteness*

 

http://burritorat.tumblr.com/

 

What do you mean this isn't canon? :3

Aww!

tumblr_inline_mqc5uqCXW41qz4rgp.gif


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#14579
Basement Cat

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Some new art.

 

Spoiler

X

 

Spoiler

X

 

Spoiler

X


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#14580
N7_Heartfire

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So, if anyone's interested, Leliana's bio in World of Thedas Vol.2 has been posted on Tumblr, so I'm putting it here if anyone's willing to read it. :)

 

Spoiler


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#14581
Archdemon_Urthemiel

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Lol the Cass thread just turned into a leliana hate thread.

Sad that simply mentioning her causes some hate. Why do people hate her so much?

#14582
TheKomandorShepard

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Mary sue ,incompetence ,disobedience ,threats toward superior and inability to call her out or do something about those (what ties to first).

 

That should answer your question. :P



#14583
DubheFera

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1) Half of Dragon Age's characters are Mary Sues, notabily Anders, Fenris, Alistair, Morrigan, a lot more than Leliana.

2) As any rogue in DAO that hasn't the skill. Zevran is incompetent too.

3) More or less all the characters in Origins threat a superior.

4) You can call her out if you have the right skill, in Origins. In Inquisition, she is is fact a founder member of the Inquisition and that places her, and Cassandra, by the way, upon your characters. She isn't a mercenary you've hired.

 

That means that more or less every character of Dragon Age should be hated.



#14584
TheKomandorShepard

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1) Half of Dragon Age's characters are Mary Sues, notabily Anders, Fenris, Alistair, Morrigan, a lot more than Leliana.

2) As any rogue in DAO that hasn't the skill. Zevran is incompetent too.

3) More or less all the characters in Origins threat a superior.

4) You can call her out if you have the right skill, in Origins. In Inquisition, she is is fact a founder member of the Inquisition and that places her, and Cassandra, by the way, upon your characters. She isn't a mercenary you've hired.

 

That means that more or less every character of Dragon Age should be hated.

1) Not rly if i recall neither anders ,fenris ,alistair or morrigan are praised to havens by almost every character that mentions them and they don't have mary sue epilogue that destroy all prejudice and hate by power of love.

2)Again not rly zevran never failed at doing his job at least while being with you. 

3)Again not rly (even morrigan doesn't) and if they do you can put them down or kick them for an example sten ,not to mention situation in origins is completely different as in fact you aren't superior only leader of an independent group ,not military organization with hierarchy.
4)Im not talking about origins because she wasn't even mary sue then ,it doesn't matter that she is co-founder (what pretty much means nothing as inqusition was build around inqusitor) what matters that inquisitor is her superior and leader of organisation.

 

And im sure they are by various people ,but above are just not true.



#14585
Boomshakalakalakaboom

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Lol the Cass thread just turned into a leliana hate thread.

Sad that simply mentioning her causes some hate. Why do people hate her so much?

 

Hey, now. Some of us stated some problems that we had with her. Not that we hated her. 

 

And yes......we lurk in here.  :P



#14586
Basement Cat

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Hey, now. Some of us stated some problems that we had with her. Not that we hated her. 

 

And yes......we lurk in here.  :P

Go back to the Cass thread! ass-kicking.gif :P

 

Seriously though, Leliana has a bad case of plot sensitive snooping skills in this game. Then again, a lot of things in this game happen because they need to happen to make the plot work. Like all the Wardens being on board with Clarel's plan except one (until the knives come out that is), the Conclave having such poor security that the Divine could be abducted under everyone's nose, Cullen having super eyesight during the siege of Haven (seriously, how did he recognize Samson from at least a mile away?), nobody freaking out over Cole probing people's thoughts and airing them out for all to hear (security hazard, much?) and of course time travel showing up for all of one mission and never coming up again (you'd think people would be more concerned about it).


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#14587
Boomshakalakalakaboom

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Go back to the Cass thread! ass-kicking.gif  :P

 

Seriously though, Leliana has a bad case of plot sensitive snooping skills in this game. Then again, a lot of things in this game happen because they need to happen to make the plot work. Like all the Wardens being on board with Clarel's plan except one (until the knives come out that is), the Conclave having such poor security that the Divine could be abducted under everyone's nose, Cullen having super eyesight during the siege of Haven (seriously, how did he recognize Samson from at least a mile away?), nobody freaking out over Cole probing people's thoughts and airing them out for all to hear (security hazard, much?) and of course time travel showing up for all of one mission and never coming up again (you'd think people would be more concerned about it).

 

*gasps*

 

Did you just punt me out of the thread?! :P

 

It is true. As Lulu said, she can't know everything or else, well, the game wouldn't be much fun. The only time that I have beef with Leli really is when she pulls her scouts from the field in Haven because some of them went missing. But as the Inquisitor I can hit her up about that so it evens it out for me. Of course, as you said, she needed to take that action for plot reasons. No way around it really. Anyway, I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to her. Always have been since DAO.

 

And my dear, dear Cole. I head canon that my Inquisitor is constantly slapping her hand over his mouth while whispering, "I thought we discussed this at length already. It is just a singular dark hair that I get on my chin from time to time. I pluck it out and it is gone. Please stop speaking of it."

 

And Cullen can make out Samson because the camera zoomed in.  :P


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#14588
DubheFera

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1) Not rly if i recall neither anders ,fenris ,alistair or morrigan are praised to havens by almost every character that mentions them and they don't have mary sue epilogue that destroy all prejudice and hate by power of love.

2)Again not rly zevran never failed at doing his job at least while being with you. 

3)Again not rly (even morrigan doesn't) and if they do you can put them down or kick them for an example sten ,not to mention situation in origins is completely different as in fact you aren't superior only leader of an independent group ,not military organization with hierarchy.
4)Im not talking about origins because she wasn't even mary sue then ,it doesn't matter that she is co-founder (what pretty much means nothing as inqusition was build around inqusitor) what matters that inquisitor is her superior and leader of organisation.

 

And im sure they are by various people ,but above are just not true.

1) Neither is Leliana. In Origins at least two characters think she is crazy, in Inquisition for most she is quite scary. I do not understand the other sentence, try explaining yourself better, please.

2) He fails very poorly trying to kill you, for a supposed Antivan Crow is pretty bad, his ambush was quite pathetic (the one with bandits that chat is ways more difficult). And he ends being captured by the Crows and is saved by Hawke in Dragon Age 2. Really impressive.

3) Morrigan was supposed to do that... but, even without conting this, what means? Every character apart from two challenges you. Wynne dies too, if you fight her at the Circle. And you can intimidate Leliana so there is no fight and she lives, while Wynne, in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, always ends dead.

4) Not really. First, Inquisitor is a title they gave to your character at Skyhold. Second, the intention, as Cassandra says in the prologue, was to rebuild the Inquisition, they even have a text to prove that. And this before even to know your character. Third, for at least half the game the inquisitor is nothing more that someone that goes where they want to: "Go to Orlais and talk with the Chantry", for example. Even in mission where is the player that decides where to go (like, templars or mages) the video shows the advisors and cassandra arguing and deciding with the aid of the Inquisitor. They give you the title after the fall of Haven. And, for last, the death of natalie, if is that the problem, is the result of at least three choices made by your character: in roleplaying, is quite normal to face the consequences of your actions and this is quite original, because other characters (leliana) are not puppets of the player and you shouldn't be able to change her mind if you failed the previous three attemps. Really, that thing was one of the few things I ever like in Inquisition...



#14589
TheKomandorShepard

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1) Neither is Leliana. In Origins at least two characters think she is crazy, in Inquisition for most she is quite scary. I do not understand the other sentence, try explaining yourself better, please.

2) He fails very poorly trying to kill you, for a supposed Antivan Crow is pretty bad, his ambush was quite pathetic (the one with bandits that chat is ways more difficult). And he ends being captured by the Crows and is saved by Hawke in Dragon Age 2. Really impressive.

3) Morrigan was supposed to do that... but, even without conting this, what means? Every character apart from two challenges you. Wynne dies too, if you fight her at the Circle. And you can intimidate Leliana so there is no fight and she lives, while Wynne, in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, always ends dead.

4) Not really. First, Inquisitor is a title they gave to your character at Skyhold. Second, the intention, as Cassandra says in the prologue, was to rebuild the Inquisition, they even have a text to prove that. And this before even to know your character. Third, for at least half the game the inquisitor is nothing more that someone that goes where they want to: "Go to Orlais and talk with the Chantry", for example. Even in mission where is the player that decides where to go (like, templars or mages) the video shows the advisors and cassandra arguing and deciding with the aid of the Inquisitor. They give you the title after the fall of Haven. And, for last, the death of natalie, if is that the problem, is the result of at least three choices made by your character: in roleplaying, is quite normal to face the consequences of your actions and this is quite original, because other characters (leliana) are not puppets of the player and you shouldn't be able to change her mind if you failed the previous three attemps. Really, that thing was one of the few things I ever like in Inquisition...

1) :lol:  oh please don't make laugh here because i can from head come up with characters that praise her to havens when mention her varric , solas , cullen ,cassandra ,sera and pretty much almost every companion and adviser does that with an exception of viviene(and no im not talking about dao either you started read my post while writing or completly ignored what i said in 4).

2.Somone didn't befriend/romanced him ,missed my point and fabricated events ,ok lets start:

a)

Spoiler

b)It wasn't in your party ,he never fails any task at least on screen .In fact it goes for all companions in dao including leliana.

c)He was never captured by crows in first place, in worst scenario hawke captures him as he agrees because he knows he doesn't stand a chance against hawke (what isn't even case of incompetence as pretty much hawke can solo qunari military leader ,also he pretty much knows that nuncio would turn on hawke and says so) ,so in every scenario he ends free. 

3.But she doesn't even when she hates you , and leliana and wynne are killed when they turn on you same for any companion that does that with exception of sten that can be only kicked ,also wynne wasn't your party member in circle she was only helping you clean tower.As i said any party member that is threatening you can be killed or at least kicked.

4.Inquisitor is leader of entire organisation and highest rank in whole organisation ,so yes rly and when i said they weren't co-founders? I said they were but fact they started organisation doesn't even remotely matter because it went from tiny organisation to huge and influential organisation while being build around inquisitor and whole herald of andraste thing (what pretty much starts near beginning of the game and when inquisition is officially formed) not leliana or cassandra and while you aren't offical leader until haven incident still inquisiton was bulid around you ,after haven you are offical leader of the inquisition and leliana's superior.It doesn't matter if that is result of my choices ,what matters i gave her order and i was her superior if she wants disobey her call but i want to properly punish her and when she threatens me it is pretty much treason.So im fine with character not being my puppet ,but i want proper reaction on disobedience and threats toward superior.
     



#14590
Kukuru

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1) :lol:  oh please don't make laugh here because i can from head come up with characters that praise her to havens when mention her varric , solas , cullen ,cassandra ,sera and pretty much almost every companion and adviser does that with an exception of viviene(and no im not talking about dao either you started read my post while writing or completly ignored what i said in 4).

2.Somone didn't befriend/romanced him ,missed my point and fabricated events ,ok lets start:

a)

Spoiler

b)It wasn't in your party ,he never fails any task at least on screen .In fact it goes for all companions in dao including leliana.

c)He was never captured by crows in first place, in worst scenario hawke captures him as he agrees because he knows he doesn't stand a chance against hawke (what isn't even case of incompetence as pretty much hawke can solo qunari military leader ,also he pretty much knows that nuncio would turn on hawke and says so) ,so in every scenario he ends free. 

3.But she doesn't even when she hates you , and leliana and wynne are killed when they turn on you same for any companion that does that with exception of sten that can be only kicked ,also wynne wasn't your party member in circle she was only helping you clean tower.As i said any party member that is threatening you can be killed or at least kicked.

4.Inquisitor is leader of entire organisation and highest rank in whole organisation ,so yes rly and when i said they weren't co-founders? I said they were but fact they started organisation doesn't even remotely matter because it went from tiny organisation to huge and influential organisation while being build around inquisitor and whole herald of andraste thing (what pretty much starts near beginning of the game and when inquisition is officially formed) not leliana or cassandra and while you aren't offical leader until haven incident still inquisiton was bulid around you ,after haven you are offical leader of the inquisition and leliana's superior.It doesn't matter if that is result of my choices ,what matters i gave her order and i was her superior if she wants disobey her call but i want to properly punish her and when she threatens me it is pretty much treason.So im fine with character not being my puppet ,but i want proper reaction on disobedience and threats toward superior.
     

I wouldn't say the Inquisitor have the highest rank.

 

The Inquisition was about to being made with the PC or without. Cassandra and Leliana were looking for Hawke or HoF to be their leader, it's just that s/he appeared in the right place at the right time. If wasn't for the orb the leader would have been someone else, because the power to close rifts + only survivor of the explosion were the only reasons to make him/her be.

 

It's just a face, you are called Herald of Andraste and leader even if you don't want to be. You are used as a religion icon to attract followers and the power to close/open rifts feeds that belief. Who spread that word, recruited an army and made alliances? The ones who are running the Inquisition and made it big are the advisors, not the Inquisitor itself. You can make few decisions like recruiting mages/templar/companions, judge people and war table requests (and only choice which advisor idea you prefer), nothing more. You can't even command Cullen's troops or Leliana's agents.

So i guess it's normal they will do whatever they want with or without your consent. Sadly the Inquisitor can't say otherwise.

 

 

About Leliana i don't know what to add aside what Basement Cat already stated. I have read a lot of those arguments that she is useless as spymaster to a irreplaceable being, and both are right and wrong. All depends of your point of view and how much attached to that character you are.



#14591
Basement Cat

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*gasps*

 

1. Did you just punt me out of the thread?! :P

 

2. It is true. As Lulu said, she can't know everything or else, well, the game wouldn't be much fun. The only time that I have beef with Leli really is when she pulls her scouts from the field in Haven because some of them went missing. But as the Inquisitor I can hit her up about that so it evens it out for me. Of course, as you said, she needed to take that action for plot reasons. No way around it really. Anyway, I'm pretty indifferent when it comes to her. Always have been since DAO.

 

1. Nothing personal. I just love that gif so much. :D

 

2. A major problem for me in this game is that the only person who consistently screws up is the villain. All the screw ups on our side have little effect on the narrative. Cullen's lyrium withdrawal is purely cosmetic. There are no problems arising from it. Cassandra being impulsive and rash never gets us in trouble. Leliana being softened or hardened only affects her personal quest and the ending slide if she is made Divine. Josephine's political maneuvering to get her family restored only affects her personally.

 

That's a lot of missed opportunities from our advisors alone. What if it had had an effect on our reputation and thus what allies we can get? What if troop morale had been a mechanic? We could have winded up with desertions, rebellion in the ranks, being denounced by allies, etc. But no. The Inquisitor wins no matter what they do. At the end of the day, the biggest Mary Sue in this game is the protagonist. We get the chance to punch two of our allies in the face if their approval drops low enough. I kinda wish some of them had it back. *sigh*


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#14592
DubheFera

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Sorry, I forgot to quote the post.



#14593
DubheFera

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1) :lol:  oh please don't make laugh here because i can from head come up with characters that praise her to havens when mention her varric , solas , cullen ,cassandra ,sera and pretty much almost every companion and adviser does that with an exception of viviene(and no im not talking about dao either you started read my post while writing or completly ignored what i said in 4).

2.Somone didn't befriend/romanced him ,missed my point and fabricated events ,ok lets start:

a)

Spoiler

b)It wasn't in your party ,he never fails any task at least on screen .In fact it goes for all companions in dao including leliana.

c)He was never captured by crows in first place, in worst scenario hawke captures him as he agrees because he knows he doesn't stand a chance against hawke (what isn't even case of incompetence as pretty much hawke can solo qunari military leader ,also he pretty much knows that nuncio would turn on hawke and says so) ,so in every scenario he ends free. 

3.But she doesn't even when she hates you , and leliana and wynne are killed when they turn on you same for any companion that does that with exception of sten that can be only kicked ,also wynne wasn't your party member in circle she was only helping you clean tower.As i said any party member that is threatening you can be killed or at least kicked.

4.Inquisitor is leader of entire organisation and highest rank in whole organisation ,so yes rly and when i said they weren't co-founders? I said they were but fact they started organisation doesn't even remotely matter because it went from tiny organisation to huge and influential organisation while being build around inquisitor and whole herald of andraste thing (what pretty much starts near beginning of the game and when inquisition is officially formed) not leliana or cassandra and while you aren't offical leader until haven incident still inquisiton was bulid around you ,after haven you are offical leader of the inquisition and leliana's superior.It doesn't matter if that is result of my choices ,what matters i gave her order and i was her superior if she wants disobey her call but i want to properly punish her and when she threatens me it is pretty much treason.So im fine with character not being my puppet ,but i want proper reaction on disobedience and threats toward superior.
     

- Same is, for example, for Josephine. Or Blackwall. Or Varric, too, never heard someone have anithing against him, except for Cassandra. And many characters find Leliana scary.

- Point one, please don't assume things you don't know. I did Zevran's quests and story, various times, in fact, and the fact that he is triying getting killed doesn't change the fact that the ambush was pathetic.

- I said, the simple fact that two characters doesn't challenge you (and I may count as this the Dark Ritual and the Landsmeet, so if we like we can say that all characters can challenge you and at least leave your party) means that everyone else does, in wich way makes Leliana special? Wynne was in your party. And even if you don't want to count the Circle Tower, she was cleary in your party at the temple of the Sacred Ashes. And, if Leliana can be intimidated, if Wynne challenges you she always die.

- The Inquisitor isn't the ruler of anything until Skyhold. All missions are: "Inquisitor, I contacted this Mother Giselle, so go talk to her", "Inquisitor, we need these things for the refugees, find them", et cetera. He/she is, in fact, one that does what they ask him to do.


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#14594
TheKomandorShepard

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I wouldn't say the Inquisitor have the highest rank.

 

The Inquisition was about to being made with the PC or without. Cassandra and Leliana were looking for Hawke or HoF to be their leader, it's just that s/he appeared in the right place at the right time. If wasn't for the orb the leader would have been someone else, because the power to close rifts + only survivor of the explosion were the only reasons to make him/her be.

 

It's just a face, you are called Herald of Andraste and leader even if you don't want to be. You are used as a religion icon to attract followers and the power to close/open rifts feeds that belief. Who spread that word, recruited an army and made alliances? The ones who are running the Inquisition and made it big are the advisors, not the Inquisitor itself. You can make few decisions like recruiting mages/templar/companions, judge people and war table requests (and only choice which advisor idea you prefer), nothing more. You can't even command Cullen's troops or Leliana's agents.

So i guess it's normal they will do whatever they want with or without your consent. Sadly the Inquisitor can't say otherwise.

 

 

About Leliana i don't know what to add aside what Basement Cat already stated. I have read a lot of those arguments that she is useless as spymaster to a irreplaceable being, and both are right and wrong. All depends of your point of view and how much attached to that character you are.

 

Eee yes s/he has pretty much inquisitor is highest-rank in inquisition.

 

And how does that matter that the warden or hawke could be inquisitor?What is important that inquisition was build around inquisitor and more importantly around herald of andraste from get go (offical start of inquisition when it was pretty much nothing more than scraps to its prime).I doubt that inquisition would be even as half successful if hawke or the warden lead it ,unless pretty much they would end as herald of andraste themselves.

 

That means they merely promoted you to be head of inquisition ,what funnily means they have made inquistion resolve around herald of andraste when people think about inquisition they don't think about leliana or cassandra they think about inquisitor ,people don't follow leliana or cassandra only inquisitor ,final nail in the coffin for them was pretty much giving officially posistion of the inquisition leader. 

 

That's a lot of missed opportunities from our advisors alone. What if it had had an effect on our reputation and thus what allies we can get? What if troop morale had been a mechanic? We could have winded up with desertions, rebellion in the ranks, being denounced by allies, etc. But no. The Inquisitor wins no matter what they do. At the end of the day, the biggest Mary Sue in this game is the protagonist. We get the chance to punch two of our allies in the face if their approval drops low enough. I kinda wish some of them had it back. *sigh*

 False ,inquisitor can lose more than once (sometimes you even get info what happened after) ,obviously you get game over as there is no point to continue as either you are dead or you soon will be.Also did i miss something and inquisitor removed hundreds of years justified fear and hatred or talk his enemies down using power of love like for an example like leliana? If i do im sorry ,if not then it is another false statement.

 

 

- Same is, for example, for Josephine. Or Blackwall. Or Varric, too, never heard someone have anithing against him, except for Cassandra. And many characters find Leliana scary.

- Point one, please don't assume things you don't know. I did Zevran's quests and story, various times, in fact, and the fact that he is triying getting killed doesn't change the fact that the ambush was pathetic.

- I said, the simple fact that two characters doesn't challenge you (and I may count as this the Dark Ritual and the Landsmeet, so if we like we can say that all characters can challenge you and at least leave your party) means that everyone else does, in wich way makes Leliana special? Wynne was in your party. And even if you don't want to count the Circle Tower, she was cleary in your party at the temple of the Sacred Ashes. And, if Leliana can be intimidated, if Wynne challenges you she always die.

- The Inquisitor isn't the ruler of anything until Skyhold. All missions are: "Inquisitor, I contacted this Mother Giselle, so go talk to her", "Inquisitor, we need these things for the refugees, find them", et cetera. He/she is, in fact, one that does what they ask him to do.

1)Eee can you please at least check if your statements are correct? Because i constantly have to correct you ,that is another false Blackwall gets a lot of crap from other companions after reveal save for perhaps varric and sera even solas at first wasn't nice about it , before that he pretty much isn't in best terms with dorian or viviene not mention he isn't very praised.Varric pretty much have sharp conflict with cassandra i don't know if you have missed point when she wanted beat the crap out of him and wasn't saying nice things about him ,other than that he is cool with other companions but again he doesn't get much praise.Josephine is only legitimate example as she does get a lot of praise (to be fair her diplomatic skills is only thing people praise) and i don't think somone says anything bad (i may be wrong) about her but again josephine never disobeys your orders neither was threatening you.As for being scary doesn't matter she is portrayed as master of terror and characters tell how they are scared of her ,how super-genius or how sexy she is ,+1 to marry sue.

2.Then your point was just plain stupid ,ignoring you have ignored part about it being irrelevant as he never failed while being in your party ,then you ignore fact that ambush was pathetic not because he was incompetent only because he didn't want it to succeed in first place as it was his suicide attempt.

3.And so what they don't challenge me or they do challenge me ,as i have said i do have proper response on their threats or rather outright betrayl, either i can kill such people or just kick them out of the party.Alistair , morrigan ,oghren ,dog and loghain never challenge you (oghren can attack you only when you insult him while he is leaving) at worst alistair can yell at you if you hit -100 approval or kill connor.Also no wynne wasn't member of your team (unless you mean gameplay wise what means nothing) as i said she was helping you clean tower not joined your "blight squad" she joins it after quest asking for permission to join your party ,again and i can deal with both of them properly in dao.

4.Facepalm ,read please again what i wrote because you are just saying random things like that inquisitor wasn't leader of the inquisition unstil skyhold what pretty much i have said not once but few times in my post and that it wasn't revelant as inquisiton was pretty much built on herald of andraste from offical start (not to mention even before that inquisitor had deciding vote in many things like approach inquisition will take).
       

 

         



#14595
Archdemon_Urthemiel

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Seems we can't even discuss Leliana without accusations of Mary suedom

#14596
TheKomandorShepard

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Seems we can't even discuss Leliana without accusations of Mary suedom

Wonder why. :devil:

 

But it isn't true in first place ,im pretty sure majority of discussions in this thread was about leliana and was on different topic than that. :whistle: 



#14597
Kukuru

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Eee yes s/he has pretty much inquisitor is highest-rank in inquisition.

 

And how does that matter that the warden or hawke could be inquisitor?What is important that inquisition was build around inquisitor and more importantly around herald of andraste from get go (offical start of inquisition when it was pretty much nothing more than scraps to its prime).I doubt that inquisition would be even as half successful if hawke or the warden lead it ,unless pretty much they would end as herald of andraste themselves.

 

That means they merely promoted you to be head of inquisition ,what funnily means they have made inquistion resolve around herald of andraste when people think about inquisition they don't think about leliana or cassandra they think about inquisitor ,people don't follow leliana or cassandra only inquisitor ,final nail in the coffin for them was pretty much giving officially posistion of the inquisition leader. 

 

 

About Hawke and HoF i meant that the Inquisitor could have been anyone. The Inquisition would have been created with the help or not of the Herald, and I disagree that the organization was made around their leader because of what i said earlier, s/he had no choice, it was about to being made with him/her or without.

 

It would have grow without the Herald too, all the quests that requires you to help someone to gain their trust and approval are sent by the advisors. And that means that if the Inquisitor didn't do the work someone else would have done it. The anchor just made things easier since faithful people did believe in such religious things, and it would have been very silly to not use it as an advantage to gain support.

 

Of course when thinking about the Inquisition the Herald of Andraste will come to mind, s/he is their icon, but that doesn't mean that is the higher rank. The Inquisitor doesn't have full power over the organization, s/he is the face, not the one who give the orders. 

 

As i pointed in my other post, Inquisitor power over the Inquisition is limited. Kinda ironic. 



#14598
Lulupab

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She clearly fails at tracking down the invasion on Heaven then improves on her failure and nails down Coryphes in later mission..

 

Failing and learning from it automatically OBLITERATES any "sue" traits the character has and I have bridge to sell to anyone who thinks otherwise. Its not even an opinion, its a fact. Check the definition of mary sue.


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#14599
Kukuru

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I can see why some people would put Leliana in the "Victim - Mary Sue" definition, though i wouldn't define her as that.

 

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mary+Sue

 

 

 

In addition, failed Leliana romance:

Spoiler


#14600
MissDragon

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Leliana:  : I am a woman and reserve the right to be inconsistent.


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