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[TheKomandorShepard]

No, I did not.

 

Look at my quote:

 

And in Thedas, it's almost magic. It's not supposed to be that realistic.

 

[Lulupab]

All that matters to me is the morality. They both get the job done.
 
What you'll be remembered for, and what Leliana will be remembered for, and what will shape your world state is the morality.

I base my opinion on irl events and people. Queen Elizabeth I for example, pushed England a century forward in every single aspect in comparison to rival countries and she did it without starting any wars. She had a vast network of spies and assassinated right targets at the right time. She is a legend in England. I clearly saw the hardened Leliana resemblance.

She was adored by common people because she cared for them, but behind the curtains, she attempted a lot of coup attempts on leaders of her enemies. This way they fail without a lot of bloodshed since the majority are alive and only the leaders and key targets are dead. Its not a bad morality.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Bards have always been this way, in every fantasy setting I've played. They're in this weird place between magic and reality... but it's inspired by real things.

No they aren't, unless we are talking about settings where they acctualy have magical powers that come with being bard.

 

In Da bards are normal humans that can inspire people with music as musican can do in our world (add to that spy/assassin traning).

 

And no you can't fix the world because you can sing...

[TheKomandorShepard]

Maybe not you. I can say music has affected me.

 

I'm also a musician myself, so f*ck you.

Well damn then why you still didn't fixed this world.

[Mistic]

I base my opinion on irl events and people. Queen Elizabeth I for example, pushed England a century forward in every single aspect in comparison to rival countries and she did it without starting any wars. She had a vast network of spies and assassinated right targets at the right time. She is a legend in England. I clearly saw the hardened Leliana resemblance.

She was adored by common people because she cared for them, but behind the curtains, she attempted a lot of coup attempts on leaders of her enemies. This way they fail without a lot of bloodshed since the majority are alive and only the leaders and key targets are dead. Its not a bad morality.

 

I don't know if Elizabeth I is a good example. Maybe she didn't like military expeditions as much as her father, but she did send troops to France and the Netherlands, and her policies in Ireland were far from "soft". She also encouraged piracy, which ended up angering Spain so much they sent the famous Felicisima Armada (the real one, not the Antivan pirates). And when she tried to take advantage of the Spaniards' defeat by sending her own counter-armada, it ended in a complete disaster.

[Qun00]

What do you want from me anyways? Everytime the subject gets brought up, I feel like I have to defend Softened Leliana. It's not like one works better than the other. It just boils down to morality. This is the ONLY divine choice that describes what kind of person you are, on a moral level.
 
It doesn't matter how implausible it appears. It CAN happen in the game.

It's not like softened Leliana does a 180 turn as a character and becomes a delusional child.

She is simply more open-minded and considers other options beyond bloodshed.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Pretty sure Justinia wanted Leli to be softened. That's what I took from the whole the "Left Hand should lay down her burden" message was all about. Why would Justinia want Leliana to be cruel and cynical when her post-mortem messages to her was to inspire the opposite of that? Soften Leliana in my opinion plays the game better. It's like the Warden choosing to pay the Dark Wolf to crush the conspiracy rather than hold hostages. Is it tentative? yes. But it's cloak and dagger and it cows her detractors in ways that doesn't hurt her public image. The new Chantry under Leliana will be a massive spy/bard criminal network. Sure Leliana can use them as thugs, but to use it as Briala uses her elves, to ruin the reputations of her enemies in Orlais seem so much more stable and satisfying. Leliana shouldn't end up like Marjorlaine, assassinating and kidnapping all who displeases her. She is a bard, not a thug. She is seen but doesn't stand out. A bard must know history so she does not repeat it. She tells the tales but is never part of them. She watches but remains above what she sees. She inspires passions in others and rules her own. The iron fist in a velvet glove.

[thats1evildude]

Leliana has a goofy smile. (Taken with my phone)

 

Spoiler

[Lulupab]

Pretty sure Justinia wanted Leli to be softened. That's what I took from the whole the "Left Hand should lay down her burden" message was all about. Why would Justinia want Leliana to be cruel and cynical when her post-mortem messages to her was to inspire the opposite of that? Soften Leliana in my opinion plays the game better. It's like the Warden choosing to pay the Dark Wolf to crush the conspiracy rather than hold hostages. Is it tentative? yes. But it's cloak and dagger and it cows her detractors in ways that doesn't hurt her public image. The new Chantry under Leliana will be a massive spy/bard criminal network. Sure Leliana can use them as thugs, but to use it as Briala uses her elves, to ruin the reputations of her enemies in Orlais seem so much more stable and satisfying. Leliana shouldn't end up like Marjorlaine, assassinating and kidnapping all who displeases her. She is a bard, not a thug. She is seen but doesn't stand out. A bard must know history so she does not repeat it. She tells the tales but is never part of them. She watches but remains above what she sees. She inspires passions in others and rules her own. The iron fist in a velvet glove.

 

At that point, Justinia didn't know Leliana will become the divine though. As I said previous, I wholeheartedly agree with softened Leliana being better. But not a better divine.

 

Given what we know of chantry zealots, and how stubborn they are, I highly doubt they will remain stable long. A divine must think about the future as well, not just her own rule at the time.

[TheKomandorShepard]

At that point, Justinia didn't know Leliana will become the divine though. As I said previous, I wholeheartedly agree with softened Leliana being better. But not a better divine.

 

Given what we know of chantry zealots, and how stubborn they are, I highly doubt they will remain stable long. A divine must think about the future as well, not just her own rule at the time.

Considering she released walking bombs onto society she is not good with thinking about future.

[Hellamarian]

Enjoy DA2. But beware, some consider it the weakest link in the series.

 

It was surprising for me how many people claimed DA2 was great after Inquisition came out. Must've been the fact they found a new thing to hate.

 

I think it's because both games did a lot of things wrong at least compared to Origins.

 

To me neither game comes close to Origins-levels but Inquisition was definitely leagues better than 2.

[Mistic]

At that point, Justinia didn't know Leliana will become the divine though. As I said previous, I wholeheartedly agree with softened Leliana being better. But not a better divine.

 

Given what we know of chantry zealots, and how stubborn they are, I highly doubt they will remain stable long. A divine must think about the future as well, not just her own rule at the time.

 

Yes, but what is the correct path for the future? First, immediate future or a long term plan? Having problems now (and surviving them) might pave a better way than living clamly now and leaving a huge mess to the next generation. If you put the stability of the Chantry above all, doesn't it mean the organization has become the end instead of the means?

 

Cassandra had some pretty interesting conversations about the issue. After discovering the secrets of the Seekers, she wondered if that was the fate of every organization: to end up caring more about the organization itself than about their supposed goals. Then it's justified by confusing the organization's interest with the common good. "We cast aside ideals in favor of expedience and tell ourselves it was necessary. For the people".

 

Leliana puts the ideals far above the organization. Cassandra wants a balance. Vivienne wants the organization. There are pros and cons for every side.

[LadyStoneheart]

Hey guys, do you think there's a chance we could get a video interview with Corinne Kempa like the Kate Mulgrew one from a month ago, considering that she's been recording new stuff for Bioware recently? Claudia Black and Steve Valentine did one as well before DAI came out, even though Morrigan and Alistair's roles in the game turned out to be smaller than Leliana's, so now she's the only "big" VA we haven't heard about for a while. I would love to hear what she has to say about her character and her journey, especially if it's truly coming to an end (and I still hope it's not).

[introverted_assassin]

kinda wanna side with the Templars in my latest playthrough just to see more of Leli...kinda don't cause that route was boring.


....but the prizeee.

[Lulupab]

Yes, but what is the correct path for the future? First, immediate future or a long term plan? Having problems now (and surviving them) might pave a better way than living clamly now and leaving a huge mess to the next generation. If you put the stability of the Chantry above all, doesn't it mean the organization has become the end instead of the means?

 

Cassandra had some pretty interesting conversations about the issue. After discovering the secrets of the Seekers, she wondered if that was the fate of every organization: to end up caring more about the organization itself than about their supposed goals. Then it's justified by confusing the organization's interest with the common good. "We cast aside ideals in favor of expedience and tell ourselves it was necessary. For the people".

 

Leliana puts the ideals far above the organization. Cassandra wants a balance. Vivienne wants the organization. There are pros and cons for every side.

 

Killing the key people who oppose your rule (hardened) has definitely better future than persuading them, because they are zealots and we are talking about Orlais. Flower in one hand, dagger in the other.

 

Also I was comparing S Leliana to H Leliana. Not to Cassandra. Cassandra's epilogue is a lot like Leliana's provided you side with mages (either conscription or alliance). 

 

I like Leliana's mostly because of her open support for city elves, aka the most wronged people in DA universe, and her caring for common people. Its her key to success. I really liked Justinia and H Leliana is basically young Justinia. Someone who became Andrasian later and is not brainwashed like those who grow up in chantry as a child.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I like Leliana's mostly because of her open support for city elves, aka the most wronged people in DA universe, her caring for common people. I really liked Justinia and H Leliana is basically young Justinia. Someone who became Andrasian later and is not brainwashed.

The Casteless Dwarves deserve that title more than the City Elves.

[Lulupab]

The Casteless Dwarves deserve that title more than the City Elves.

 

Well they are definitely a candidate too, but their numbers are far less than city elves and surface dwarves usually live a better life than city elves.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well they are definitely a candidate too, but their numbers are far less than city elves and surface dwarves usually live a better life than city elves.

I mean the Casteless Dwarves in Orzammar. They have the worst lot of any group of people in the DA universe.

[Lulupab]

I mean the Casteless Dwarves in Orzammar. They have the worst lot of any group of people in the DA universe.

 

Thinking about it, you are right. They are like always in worst situation of alienages. I mean alienages get better sometimes, but its always the same hell for casteless.