15911 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I didn't feel that way. She was simply new to real relationships. My Surana Warden romanced Morrigan, and the Warden and her are still together; they were living in a different "world" for a while with their son (as she tells Alistair).

As for Leliana, I wonder if what Cassandra read from his book (about Leliana killing a man) is what actually what went into it (given Cassandra's enthusiasm in the last line delivered about being in Varric's book).

 

Surana ? You do know that Morrigan is perfectly okay with Tevinter enslavement of City Elves ? In fact, she approves if you accept Caladrius' offer and disapproves of you if you choose to fight him. Truly, the woman is heartless. She is willing to sell off innocent people to slavery in exchange of some gold and meager constitution boost.

 

Since Surana can be roleplayed as an Elf from an Alienage, whether Highever or Denerim, seeing Morrigan do that,killed most of the interest I had in having male Wardens romance her. Leliana in DAO might have weird visions, but she never advocates for Elven slavery. The worst part is that you cannot persuade Morrigan to have a different opinion, unlike the Broken Circle quest or Anvil of the Void quest where she can be persuaded out of her foolish ways of thinking.

 

Source:- http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Caladrius
 

Yet her romance worked out pretty nicely. In a way, Morrigan's romance was comparable to Jack's in ME2 in the sense that it came abruptly for her, causing her to fall for the Warden without having foreseen it. That was just how it was set up so it was never going to appeal to everyone. I personally liked it a lot.

 

I am someone who despise drama in relationships. The less drama the better it is for me. Leliana simply has to deal with Marjolaine and she's good to go whereas you have to deal with Flemeth (to prevent her from possessing Morrigan), later you have to deal with her sperm jacking attempts and next you have to deal with her theft of Dalish property in Witch Hunt.

 

Morrigan is an interesting character but as I said, has too much drama. I mean, as a Warden who is interested in romancing her, you have to deal with these facts/issues:-

 

1) Morrigan approves of slavery, evident in Anvil of the Void and Denerim Alienage questlines.

 

2) Morrigan is not very pragmatic. She really disapproves if you do not choose to save Redcliffe even though that is the pragmatic thing to do because more people saved technically equals more people who can fight against the Blight.

 

3) Morrigan original intention of joining you is to sperm jack you or Alistair or possibly Loghain. If you are a woman, try imagining Morrigan as a man who joins you with the end goal of needing your ovum for some dark fertility ritual. Worse still, she never explains why Urthemiel is even worth saving, she just want to do it and if you choose not to do it, she leaves you. She does not stay with you but instead just leaves you.

 

Sure, Morrigan's romance pans out in the end but sensible male Wardens who can think with their actual head instead of their dickhead would have serious trust issues with Morrigan by the end of DAO. No, that does not mean you have to kill her or anything but it just makes her someone who is too much trouble so you try your best to not have her in your life.
 

By contrast, Leliana has her vision and Marjolaine, two things that are nowhere near the level of Morrigan's issues.

[vertigomez]

Someone being "too much trouble" would rule out literally all of my favorite love interests. Almost everyone in this series has baggage, and I rather like it that way.

If I'm going for someone, it's because I'm charmed by the character and/or interested in how the romance arc itself plays out. Weighing the pros and cons sucks some of the emotion out of it. I think most people IRL would, if they could, choose to love someone who is "good for them" and fits nicely into their life plan - but that's not how falling in love works.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Someone being "too much trouble" would rule out literally all of my favorite love interests.

 

That's your problem.

 

Weighing the pros and cons sucks some of the emotion out of it.

 

That's called being sensible and logical. You should try it.

 

 

But that's not how falling in love works.

 

For you.

[vertigomez]

Ooookay. Have fun, I guess?

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Love this picture. I got it from DA Confessions and I plan to use it next time someone says Leliana is somehow bad or evil when she is hardened or wrong for changing the laws as Divine.

Nice apologetics here but in comparison Mar comes as saner and less petty than Leliana.Hardened Leliana is only ruthless when needs to be, Natalie and bard from war table would beg to differ.  

She did plenty selfish and harmful things like started huge war for sake of foolish woman, traded safety of majority for sake a few because of blind loyalty to 1 woman, killed a hostage for sake of revenge compromising success of the mission and changed chantry laws to fit her personal interests.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Many of us don't play RPGs to mirror our exact real-world personalities. In real life my partner of fifteen years is nothing like Morrigan or Sera, but I love their romances. In real life I'd run a mile from anyone who claimed to be guided by religious visions, but I enjoy Leliana's romance. For me the joy of role-playing is in experiencing something different without actually putting myself in physical or emotional danger.

If others play a different way, that's cool. No one is "wrong" as long as the game allows it.

[LobselVith8]

Surana ? You do know that Morrigan is perfectly okay with Tevinter enslavement of City Elves ? In fact, she approves if you accept Caladrius' offer and disapproves of you if you choose to fight him. Truly, the woman is heartless. She is willing to sell off innocent people to slavery in exchange of some gold and meager constitution boost.

 

Morrigan seems to advocate all the choices meant to empower you in the narrative since it's a time of Blight, and I imagine she thinks the Warden needs every edge he can get (particularly when you consider that Blights usually last decades, if not centuries). If Caladrius advocating doing the ritual to humans to make you stronger, she would respond in the same way.

 

Since Surana can be roleplayed as an Elf from an Alienage, whether Highever or Denerim, seeing Morrigan do that,killed most of the interest I had in having male Wardens romance her. Leliana in DAO might have weird visions, but she never advocates for Elven slavery. The worst part is that you cannot persuade Morrigan to have a different opinion, unlike the Broken Circle quest or Anvil of the Void quest where she can be persuaded out of her foolish ways of thinking.

 

Leliana and Morrigan aren't meant to be perfect; both women have flaws. You can criticize how Leliana views elves when she talks about their place in Orlesian society, and she's perfectly willing to concede that you've given her a lot to think about, which speaks a lot to her character and her willingness to grow as a person (it's something I really wish was achievable with Sera and her negative views on all elves).

 

As for the Anvil of the Void, it brought the dwarves a century of peace from the darkspawn and the golems beat back the first Archdemon Dumat, so there's a case to be made for using it if you're playing as a pragmatic character. It was the absence of the Anvil that lead the darkspawn to killing countless people and taking almost the entire dwarven kingdom (that spanned the length of Thedas itself), with the exception of only two Great Thaigs (which is like saying New York and New Jersey were spared while the rest of the United States was overrun and destroyed).

 

Morrigan can also be persuaded to accept that her view on the Circle mages isn't correct and leaves the decision up to you with no disapproval from her.

[fhs33721]

I found DA:O Leliana to be too creepy as a LI. DA:I... she's actually worse. You could make a good case for her being a homicidal schizophrenic, but hey... some people dig crazy psycho killers.

Pretty much every main character including all your comapnions and your main character are crazy psycho killers by modern standards. Except maybe Josephine.

[Lord of War]

Surana ? You do know that Morrigan is perfectly okay with Tevinter enslavement of City Elves ? In fact, she approves if you accept Caladrius' offer and disapproves of you if you choose to fight him. Truly, the woman is heartless. She is willing to sell off innocent people to slavery in exchange of some gold and meager constitution boost.

 

Since Surana can be roleplayed as an Elf from an Alienage, whether Highever or Denerim, seeing Morrigan do that,killed most of the interest I had in having male Wardens romance her. Leliana in DAO might have weird visions, but she never advocates for Elven slavery. The worst part is that you cannot persuade Morrigan to have a different opinion, unlike the Broken Circle quest or Anvil of the Void quest where she can be persuaded out of her foolish ways of thinking.

 

 

Also, being an elf doesn't mean you have to care about this. One of the many terrible things about the Circle is that it separates and alienates families, and after spending most of their life in one, a Surana could very well not see the alienage elves as his own. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Pretty much every main character including all your comapnions and your main character are crazy psycho killers by modern standards. Except maybe Josephine.

Eee, since when soldiers are crazy psycho killers? Difference lies in sanity, characters like Wynne , Alistair, Varric are normal people when it comes to this.Among all companions Leliana takes a cake when it comes to lack of sanity.

[Lulupab]

Eee, since when soldiers are crazy psycho killers? Difference lies in sanity, characters like Wynne , Alistair, Varric are normal people when it comes to this.Among all companions Leliana takes a cake when it comes to lack of sanity.

 

You need to look at this on a more grounded level and frankly don't ride a high horse.

 

Wynne, Alistair and Varric are NOT from Orlais. Plenty of people from Orlais are "psycho killers" and I doubt you are calling a whole nation psycho killers. As I said when in Rome do as Romans do. Bards are treated highly and even regarded as artists in Orlais, and yes Orlesians are well aware what they do. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

You need to look at this on a more grounded level and frankly don't ride a high horse.

 

Wynne, Alistair and Varric are NOT from Orlais. Plenty of people from Orlais are "psycho killers" and I doubt you are calling a whole nation psycho killers. As I said when in Rome do as Romans do. Bards are treated highly and even regarded as artists in Orlais, and yes Orlesians are well aware what they do. 

Being member of the country is poor excuse to be a psycho killer, seems like pure apologetics on your side.Besides being a bard wouldn't necessarily make you a psycho killer, Marjolaine if we take out her paranoia (that is healthy in her profession) was more of pragmatic and professional than Leliana that tends to be petty and driven by her psychotic episodes, not to mention delusions and her constant identity crisis.

[vertigomez]

I think you're missing out on a critical aspect of Leliana's character:

She breeds nugs. NUGS.

[Lulupab]

Being member of the country is poor excuse to be a psycho killer, seems like pure apologetics on your side.Besides being a bard wouldn't necessarily make you a psycho killer, Marjolaine if we take out her paranoia (that is healthy in her profession) was more of pragmatic and professional than Leliana that tends to be petty and driven by her psychotic episodes, not to mention delusions and her constant identity crisis.

 

Leliana's so called "identity crisis" is a fan service to give the players the choice to change her personality to either softened or hardened. Beyond this she has no identity crisis.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Leliana's so called "identity crisis" is a fan service to give the players the choice to change her personality to either softened or hardened. Beyond this she has no identity crisis.

Fanservice or not she still has identity crisis (as well i could try to refute fact that Cullen appeared in dai with that it was fanservice), not a first time anyway.

[fhs33721]

Being member of the country is poor excuse to be a psycho killer, seems like pure apologetics on your side.Besides being a bard wouldn't necessarily make you a psycho killer, Marjolaine if we take out her paranoia (that is healthy in her profession) was more of pragmatic and professional than Leliana that tends to be petty and driven by her psychotic episodes, not to mention delusions and her constant identity crisis.

Marjorlaine? Professional and pragmatic? The person that stabs her own completely devoted minions in the back for pretty much no reason? The same Marjorlane that fits the description of a psychopath more than Leliana ever could, simply because she seems to completely lack any capability to empathize with anyone that isn't herself, to a degree where she thinks everything is about her and her alone and shows a distinctive inability to feel any shame, guilt or remorse for anything she does?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Marjorlaine? Professional and pragmatic? The person that stabs her own completely devoted minions in the back for pretty much no reason? The same Marjorlane that fits the description of a psychopath more than Leliana ever could, simply because she seems to completely lack any capability to empathize with anyone that isn't herself, to a degree where she thinks everything is about her and her alone and shows a distinctive inability to feel any shame, guilt or remorse for anything she does?

Someone is biased here... Hardly no reason, she diverted blame for a treason onto Leliana allowing her to remain intact and at the same time removed potential future rival.Let's be honest here Marjolaine won big time here, she was pragmatic and knew in her profession emotional attachments are obstacle (what is professional approach).Marjolaine was hardly petty (or at least we weren't shown that side of her) she was a professional, while as i said Leliana ruthlessness often manifests in irrational emotional approach rather what makes sense (Killing Natalie or Felix).

[thats1evildude]

Marjolaine was nuttier than a brick shithouse. If she'd been smart, she'd have hired her hit squad at a location other than her hideout. In doing so, she gave Leliana the means to track her down.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Marjolaine was nuttier than a brick shithouse.

Im convinced by your vast and rational argumentation.

 

 

Marjolaine was nuttier than a brick shithouse. If she'd been smart, she'd have hired her hit squad at a location other than her hideout. In doing so, she gave Leliana the means to track her down.

You know that she wanted Leliana to find her? She even prepared an ambush, she failed only because she overestimated her chances and was unlucky by going against guy/girl that can go through tower full of abomnations.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Someone is biased here...

On that we can agree.

[TheKomandorShepard]

On that we can agree.

Any argumentation here or you just expected to sell your point by saying "Yes, you" ?

[YourFunnyUncle]

Any argumentation here or just you just expected to sell your point by saying "Yes, you" ?

Why would I argue with you? You know everything.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Why would I argue with you? You know everything.

So i guess you will hide lack of arguments behind sarcasm?

[YourFunnyUncle]

So i guess you will hide lack of arguments behind sarcasm?

Yes. That's what I'll do. Correct. As I said, you know everything.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes. That's what I'll do. Correct. As I said, you know everything.

Still not an argument, next time please come with some actual arguments so we don't waste our time, if you will come with good ones you will save your face too.