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[TheKomandorShepard]

That was beautiful. The previous comic was heart-wrenching.

 

You know, now that I stop to think about it, it's no wonder Leliana looked so bitter in the last trailer. Life has been harsh for her:

 

-Leliana's Song: her mentor Marjolaine betrays her. Thank the Maker Dorothea was there to help her.

-Before DA:O: During her retirement, Leliana was mocked by her religious ideas.

-DA:O: If she joins the Warden's group, there are several possible scenarios. Worst case scenario: the Warden defiles Andraste's ashes and Leliana is "killed". Best case scenario: the Warden becomes her best friend or even lover. Good, isn't it? Keep reading.

-After DA:O: Following the best case scenario, the Warden can either sacrifice himself or herself, breaking Leliana's heart... or they will keep a long-distance relationship until his or her mysterious disappearance. More drama.

-Books: Leliana is seen as the Divine's (Dorothea's) right hand and personal spy, doing her dirty work. But it's all good because it's for a good cause, isn't it?

-DA:I: The most popular guess so far is that the explosion will wipe out several Chantry high-ranking members, including the Divine herself. Poor Leliana. And now we know that she may end up being tortured by those crazy Tevinters. She just can't catch a break.

 

To be honest most of that is her own fault and she had it coming...

 

1.Pretty much in leliana song she got what she had coming to her she had relationship with treacherous and manipulating bard she did that to herself hell it was even poetic justice because what her mentor did to her leliana did to many peoples but i love how game treats her like innocent victim and we can't call her on that.There was 2 moments in the game where it beg for dialogue option calling her a hypocrite.

3.Well she attacked the warden herself what she expected.

4-5-6 it is again her own fault he burned first time and didn't teach on her own mistakes and she came back to do what lead her to tragedy before want to be bard leliana well you won't be happy it is your own fault my warden warned you.

[Black Jimmy]

According to TV tropes, we don't actually have to send Leliana into Redcliff to get tortured, so is breaking her optional? If so, what inevitably worse thing will happen if you keep her close at hand?

 

Another thing. Wasn't it mentioned that this Redcliff castle is a mage base because of something done during the Mage/Templar War storyline? Does making the opposite choice mean she avoids getting tortured? Or just gets tortured by Red Templars?

[Basement Cat]

So does that mean, if you were Leliana, you wouldn't let a ReaverWarden go down on you?

Considering what the Warden had to do to become a Reaver...probably not.

[Basement Cat]

To be honest most of that is her own fault and she had it coming...

 

1.Pretty much in leliana song she got what she had coming to her she had relationship with treacherous and manipulating bard she did that to herself hell it was even poetic justice because what her mentor did to her leliana did to many peoples but i love how game treats her like innocent victim and we can't call her on that.There was 2 moments in the game where it beg for dialogue option calling her a hypocrite.

3.Well she attacked the warden herself what she expected.

4-5-6 it is again her own fault he burned first time and didn't teach on her own mistakes and she came back to do what lead her to tragedy before want to be bard leliana well you won't be happy it is your own fault my warden warned you.

 

It's true that Leliana has hypocritical traits, but as for deserving what she got... I would be inclined to disagree. When she got involved with Marjolaine she was fairly young, and so trusted someone she shouldn't have. Everyone makes mistakes, especially young people. Also, many young people have a poorly developped sense of empathy combined with a sense of being invincible, so she had no problem messing with the nobles to cause chaos.

 

She freaked out when she discovered that Marjolaine was committing treason because that was way worse than anything she had done before. Kinda like a kid who goes around painting graffiti for his gang and suddenly is asked to beat up someone's mom to teach them a lesson.

 

That freak out led to Marjolaine betraying her, and everything Leliana believed to be true crashed and burned around her. So I don't think she was truly malicious, just a very, very stupid kid who got the mother of all wake up calls.

 

Attacking the Warden at the Sacred Ashes? Stupid, but understanble as it was motivated by emotion.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It's true that Leliana has hypocritical traits, but as for deserving what she got... I would be inclined to disagree. When she got involved with Marjolaine she was fairly young, and so trusted someone she shouldn't have. Everyone makes mistakes, especially young people. Also, many young people have a poorly developped sense of empathy combined with a sense of being invincible, so she had no problem messing with the nobles to cause chaos.

 

She freaked out when she discovered that Marjolaine was committing treason because that was way worse than anything she had done before. Kinda like a kid who goes around painting graffiti for his gang and suddenly is asked to beat up someone's mom to teach them a lesson.

 

That freak out led to Marjolaine betraying her, and everything Leliana believed to be true crashed and burned around her. So I don't think she was truly malicious, just a very, very stupid kid who got the mother of all wake up calls.

 

Attacking the Warden at the Sacred Ashes? Stupid, but understanble as it was motivated by emotion.

Well she was older than 20 at least what i think in Leliana song so not very young.Funniest thing that in dao she still don't mind playing with others feeling in order to get what she wants which is exactly what marjolaine did god i spend searching for dialogue option that calls her hypocrite and and best i can tell that isn't right.Devs you failed her... but of course if you have second li there is dialogue "stop playing with my feelings" oh my god... (seeks hypocrite dialogue option there is no such option).She was stupid , hypocritical and to be honest it was poetic justice as i said what marjolaine did to her she did to other peoples and still don't mind doing that in dao and after she runt to become bard well she cleary can't teach on her own mistakes she is the one who is mostly responsible for her own misfortune.

 

Shame only game forces you to treat her as innocent victim and only alternative is being di*** just because (which i don't mind but they could give us more responses).I hope at last in dai i can call her on that.

[Schreckstoff]

I got a thread deleted for asking about that. Then Mary answered it in meatspace because Mary is awesome.

The blood is 'dead' and so has no energy. You can't use it for magic.

Good to see I'm not the only messed up one here.

[FiveThreeTen]

Okay, I have to write this.

 

But it'll have to be in DA2, as you can't canonically become a Reaver in DAO without defiling the Urn of Sacred Ashes.

My warden who romanced Leliana was a Reaver But I had unlocked it before and so many people were already Berzerkers in the party!

 

I'm sure Leliana understands.

 

I don't know how she would react to a warden using blood magic since your companions don't really comment on it...but this specialization is so effective

[Mistic]

To be honest most of that is her own fault and she had it coming...

 

1.Pretty much in leliana song she got what she had coming to her she had relationship with treacherous and manipulating bard she did that to herself hell it was even poetic justice because what her mentor did to her leliana did to many peoples but i love how game treats her like innocent victim and we can't call her on that.There was 2 moments in the game where it beg for dialogue option calling her a hypocrite.

3.Well she attacked the warden herself what she expected.

4-5-6 it is again her own fault he burned first time and didn't teach on her own mistakes and she came back to do what lead her to tragedy before want to be bard leliana well you won't be happy it is your own fault my warden warned you.

 

Tragedies caused by our own mistakes are the best. That's what the Greeks loved, people falling because of their own hubris. Following Marjolaine wasn't a good idea. Ok, she was young, and impressionable, and probably in love. But when she is on the receiving end of bard treachery, suddenly life is not so fun. And choosing to work as a bard again for Dorothea is... not the career choice I would have recommended. More stress and dirty jobs. Still, I suppose she feels she owes her a lot.

 

But are you sure with number 4? I mean, how could be Leliana's fault that the Warden did the ultimate sacrifice or disappeared mysteriously?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Tragedies caused by our own mistakes are the best. That's what the Greeks loved, people falling because of their own hubris. Following Marjolaine wasn't a good idea. Ok, she was young, and impressionable, and probably in love. But when she is on the receiving end of bard treachery, suddenly life is not so fun. And choosing to work as a bard again for Dorothea is... not the career choice I would have recommended. More stress and dirty jobs. Still, I suppose she feels she owes her a lot.

 

But are you sure with number 4? I mean, how could be Leliana's fault that the Warden did the ultimate sacrifice or disappeared mysteriously?

Well my point was just that peoples or game shouldn't make her such innocent victim of the fate who punish her just because god don't like her ,she lead to most of events by very stupid choices and mistakes that she keeps repeating.I don't pitty her at all she is hypocritical and not very smart person that is unable be taught by past experiences.Touch the fire once i may pitty you keep touching fire over and over i won't.

 

About number 4 i rather meant second part about long-distance relationship (well if it is tragedy at all...) if she suffers so much because of that maybe she should stay with him after all it was her decision to come back to her old life so well...    

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Just wanna say that Leliana looks frickin good in the new engine. Too bad she's not romanceable. Won't stop me from trying, however! >=D

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Honestly why does Leliana keep getting captured and tortured?

[jlb524]

Her bosses make bad decisions.

[TheLittleBird]

Honestly why does Leliana keep getting captured and tortured?

 

Because she wants to be the damsel in distress.

[Maria Caliban]

Leliana is not innocent. She was wonderfully sweet and cute as she told my PC about the people she's seduced and killed, bragged that she could easily do it with the PC, and then totally did. It was like walking into a spider's web made of spun sugar and hoping to not get bitten. That delicious feeling that you're doing something unwise but you're willing to take the risk because the way she laughs gives you warm shivers.

Even now, I realize that I considered Anders a monster and killed him for blowing up the Chantry, but Leliana has probably killed as many as he did that day. And she didn't have the excuse of having an angry spirit in her head. She just weighed murder against making Marjolaine happy, and making happy Marjolaine won out. Also, the Game was fun, even when it ended in people dying.

I don't think she should have been betrayed by the woman she loved, abused, or executed. If a woman did what Leliana did in the real world though, I'd consider a lifetime of prison just.

Instead she got a reprieve, found God, helped save the world, and then became an agent of one of the most powerful people in the world.

That's a sweet deal.

Even knowing that she's gotten that sweet deal, I want her to have more. I want her to help save the world again, find some peace, and get a happy ending.

The wonderful thing about Leliana is that intellectually I know her hands are dirty but emotionally, she's just some innocent woobie the world is being mean to, and I want to cuddle and protect her and make everything better.

I imagine if she were real, my reaction would be mildly insulting. She's a grown woman who's been deep in serious crap and lived to see the other side.

KommanderShepard as a good point. My thoughts on the character are irrational though, so I don't care how good his point is. He could make a brilliant case for her deserving a horrible fate; I'd go '**** you' and write more bad fanfiction.

[TheLittleBird]

@Maria Caliban:

 

That was like beautiful poetry... I approve 

[Fiery Phoenix]

Maria sure has a way with words.

[Alan Rickman]

>Implying fluffy Leliana porn fanfiction could ever be bad

[TheKomandorShepard]

Leliana is not innocent. She was wonderfully sweet and cute as she told my PC about the people she's seduced and killed, bragged that she could easily do it with the PC, and then totally did. It was like walking into a spider's web made of spun sugar and hoping to not get bitten. That delicious feeling that you're doing something unwise but you're willing to take the risk because the way she laughs gives you warm shivers.

Even now, I realize that I considered Anders a monster and killed him for blowing up the Chantry, but Leliana has probably killed as many as he did that day. And she didn't have the excuse of having an angry spirit in her head. She just weighed murder against making Marjolaine happy, and making happy Marjolaine won out. Also, the Game was fun, even when it ended in people dying.

I don't think she should have been betrayed by the woman she loved, abused, or executed. If a woman did what Leliana did in the real world though, I'd consider a lifetime of prison just.

Instead she got a reprieve, found God, helped save the world, and then became an agent of one of the most powerful people in the world.

That's a sweet deal.

Even knowing that she's gotten that sweet deal, I want her to have more. I want her to help save the world again, find some peace, and get a happy ending.

The wonderful thing about Leliana is that intellectually I know her hands are dirty but emotionally, she's just some innocent woobie the world is being mean to, and I want to cuddle and protect her and make everything better.

I imagine if she were real, my reaction would be mildly insulting. She's a grown woman who's been deep in serious crap and lived to see the other side.

KommanderShepard as a good point. My thoughts on the character are irrational though, so I don't care how good his point is. He could make a brilliant case for her deserving a horrible fate; I'd go '**** you' and write more bad fanfiction.

 

Hm she didn't deserved to be betrayed? how so she did that herself many times to others... even on practical standpoint she deserved that for stupidity for having unhealthy relationship with narcissistic ruthless bard.Here she got what she cooked herself leliana betrayed many peoples who feel in love with her marjolaine did the same then we hear her story where she tries paint herself as poor innocent victim and how she was hurt by bad marjolaine then half hour later we hear her speach how it is fine to play with other feeling to get what what you want what a damn hypocrite but that isn't end if you romane her and someone else you will get speech how dare you play with her feelings...

 

Then in the end she came back to being bard again just with different master and excuse sorry lady but you had it coming pretty much i always suspected that her come back to being bard will end again on being tortured and crying how life is unfair on her side.Those time i rly hope that inq can tell her that it is her own fault.

 

You have to earn your happy ending and search for it in right place if you want happy life you don't become assassin in most corrupted country in the world. 

[Lenimph]

To be honest most of that is her own fault and she had it coming...

 

1.Pretty much in leliana song she got what she had coming to her she had relationship with treacherous and manipulating bard she did that to herself hell it was even poetic justice because what her mentor did to her leliana did to many peoples but i love how game treats her like innocent victim and we can't call her on that.There was 2 moments in the game where it beg for dialogue option calling her a hypocrite.

 

  By that logic anyone tied to Orlesian nobility that gets backed stabbed by their lover had it coming to them. When you play 'the game' it is not a direct sign of stupidity nor weakness to believe you have at least one person you can trust, since the game is based on these sort of alliances. We saw very little of Leliana and Marjoliane's relationship in Leliana's Song and it's obtuse to come to such an assumption when we saw such a small snippet of their relationship. Obviously Marjolaine was an evil and conniving ****** in hindsight to us as the player but even Leliana suggests that the actions Marjolaine were taking were beyond the normal ones of a bard, so it's more then possible that Marjolaine's goals had changed from the moment Leliana had originally fell for her. And once you are in love with someone it's usually difficult to fall out of it, often enough it takes a horrid action to make that happen.

 

 And even still there is a moment in the DLC were it is shown that Marjolaine did not originally conceive of betraying Leliana (in the bedroom when Leliana speaks of the papers). Marjolaine sits down and looks down in contemplation, and then when she asks Leliana if she is sure and states sternly, "You know there is always a cost for that," in a forboding tone that's almost like a warning. And if you pick the option that leads to Leliana saying, "You know this is the right thing to do." Marjolaine's shoulders sink and her face is visibly upset replying, "So you say.."One could argue that Leliana's biggest mistake was not being devoted to Marjolaine enough to go along with the treason papers and keep her mouth shut, and Marjolaine saw Leliana's devotion to Orlais as a threat to her own agenda and decided that her personal gain was more important over her relationship with Leliana. 

 

But these are Orlesian relationships. There's nothing 'normal' about them. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

  By that logic anyone tied to Orlesian nobility that gets backed stabbed by their lover had it coming to them. When you play 'the game' it is not a direct sign of stupidity nor weakness to believe you have at least one person you can trust, since the game is based on these sort of alliances. We saw very little of Leliana and Marjoliane's relationship in Leliana's Song and it's obtuse to come to such an assumption when we saw such a small snippet of their relationship. Obviously Marjolaine was an evil and conniving ****** in hindsight to us as the player but even Leliana suggests that the actions Marjolaine were taking were beyond the normal ones of a bard, so it's more then possible that Marjolaine's goals had changed from the moment Leliana had originally fell for her.

 

 And even still there is a moment in the DLC were it is shown that Marjolaine did not originally conceive of betraying Leliana (in the bedroom when Leliana speaks of the papers). Marjolaine sits down and looks down in contemplation, and then when she asks Leliana if she is sure and states sternly, "You know there is always a cost for that," in a forboding tone that's almost like a warning. One could argue that Leliana's biggest mistake was not being devoted to Marjolaine enough to go along with the treason papers and keep her mouth shut, and Marjolaine saw Leliana's devotion to Orlais as a threat to her own agenda and decided that her personal gain was more important over her relationship with Leliana. 

 

LoL if you rape peoples you hardly can complain that someone raped you and then brag how it is fine to rape peoples...

In fact if you bind with "bad" boy or girl you hardly can complain about i mean you wanted bad boy you have bad boy now cry...

She went for ruthless narcissistic bard for who betraying people was job.Leliana also did same thing to other peoples what Marjoliane did to her sure she got burned and learned her lesson right? No in fact it is still fine to play with other peoples feelings but not my if you do you are monster if i do it is fine... what a hypocrisy.If you play orlesian game you desserve this you are doing same **** to peoples that think that they can trust you so why peoples that you trust shouldn't betray you how it is worse?

 

It doesn't matter if she planed betray her or not he she did and that what bards are doing and that what about orlesian game is... and pretty much what leliana did to other peoples who trusted her...

[Maria Caliban]

Hm she didn't deserved to be betrayed? how so she did that herself many times to others...

Because I prefer justice to revenge.

Being caught committing a crime and facing punishment for it is fine. Being framed for a crime you didn't commit by your lover is not just, especially when the punishment is death.

It doesn't matter how many times you screw over people or what horrible things you've done, that doesn't make it right for horrible things to happen to you.

To use a real world example (and I hope this doesn't make anyone uncomfortable) some people believe that criminals who sexually assault or murder children should be abused and raped in prison. I believe that the criminal justice system should provide for the safety and well-being of everyone and that no prisoner should fear any sort of abuse. A society is judged on how it treats those it sees as monstrous, not people who are 'worthy' of good treatment.

LoL if you rape peoples you hardly can complain that someone raped you and then brag how it is fine to rape peoples...

Two rapes do not make a right.

[Lenimph]

LoL if you rape peoples you hardly can complain that someone raped you and then brag how it is fine to rape peoples...

In fact if you bind with "bad" boy or girl you hardly can complain about i mean you wanted bad boy you have bad boy now cry...

She went for ruthless narcissistic bard for who betraying people was job.Leliana also did same thing to other peoples what Marjoliane did to her sure she got burned and learned her lesson right? No in fact it is still fine to play with other peoples feelings but not my if you do you are monster if i do it is fine... what a hypocrisy.If you play orlesian game you desserve this you are doing same **** to peoples that think that they can trust you so why peoples that you trust shouldn't betray you how it is worse?

 

It doesn't matter if she planed betray her or not he she did and that what bards are doing and that what about orlesian game is... and pretty much what leliana did to other peoples who trusted her...

 

But it does matter, you can't take all the context out of a situation and focus on one finite point of a situation, which you are so fond of doing. The world is not so black or white, especially in the setting of the orlesian game. 

 

And whats this nonsense of her refusing to learn her lesson? She never went back to the game after the betrayal, unless you're talking about her work for the divine, which from what we've seen in the books is mostly talking to people, attending parties in her name and killing mostly in self defense.

[Allan Schumacher]

...oops. Sorry. :S

 

*insert 'it's been out for months though!' excuse here.*

 

I also am waiting for it to all be out so I can binge play it... :S

[Lenimph]

I also am waiting for it to all be out so I can binge play it... :S

Be glad you did episode 3 ends in a bit of cliffhanger. 

[Schreckstoff]

And eye for an eye is not justice.

Leliana saw the fault in her behaviour and tried to change, to become devoted and as such she deserves pity no matter her wrongs in the past.