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[Divine Justinia V]

She's the head of the most dominant religious organization in Thedas. You and I are going to have to disagree on how this could have been handled by the Divine and her Left Hand.

 

Please don't get me wrong. I don't hate Leliana. I really liked her in Origins and Asunder, my Warden killed Marjolaine for her, but I also can't deny that "Faith" and "The Masked Empire" did bother me, mainly due to the actions that she took at the behest of Divine Justinia V. With the Inquisition not beholden to the Andrastian Chantry, that's most likely not going to be an issue anymore. 

 

That's beside the point, however. All I'm saying is that Xil does have a point about an elven protagonist being able to take issue with Leliana if this was addressed, considering the loss of life that resulted. It's also highly possible this won't be.

 

She may be at the head but if you've read Asunder you see that bears no weight anymore. The Templars and the Seekers have disbanded and thus will be enemies in DA:I for her siding with the Mages. How much do you think she can really pull, Lob? I don't think the Elven protag would have issue with Leliana whatsoever. I will agree to disagree with you here.

[Lenimph]

Are you sincerely arguing that Leliana didn't know what would ensue when she delivered this message? Leliana isn't stupid; she's a bard. She's the Divine's representative, and has been for some time. She knew exactly what message she was delivering to the Empress, and Celene even comments on it on page 113 when she internally thinks about how she knew how the conversation would go.
 
*snip*

Followed by a paragraph talking about Celene's heart breaking, and how she had "nown within moments how the conversation would go". Considering how Leliana was referencing elves being hurt and her visible discomfort, it's clear that she knew bloodshed would ensue. Celene was the one who killed all those elves, but Leliana most certainly played a role in the eventual burning of Halamshiral.
 
Xil's point is valid - an elven Inquisitor might take serious issue with the part she played in their deaths.

I am not suggesting Leliana did not think that asking the question (not the message but question of reassurance) might make Celene result in taking violence. In fact I have already said that Leliana expresses concern for the elves because she felt it might lead to that multiple times. But the Divine is not telling Celene how to handle her own affairs, only to handle them, before the Divine helps her with the Mages. 

 

Also everything Leliana says is pro-elf, which seemingly keeps being brushed to the side by you. Leliana expresses that the Divine respects the elves and does not agree with those who discriminate against them. Why would someone who thinks that way order them to have them slaughtered as you like to conveniently insinuate. It is not without reason to think that perhaps that if Celene asked for help with the elven rebellion over the mages that Orlais might not be in as big as a political mess as it is. 

 

Thedas would still probably be a magical black hole though, that was kind of inevitable. 

[Milan92]

That's what the Inquisition is for. Solving one problem at the time!

 

So the more problems that will exist before the game comes out, the more gameplay/story we'll have.

[TheJediSaint]

That's what the Inquisition is for. Solving one problem at the time!

 

So the more problems that will exist before the game comes out, the more gameplay/story we'll have.

 

Silly NPCs always needing a Player Character to fix all their problems.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Silly NPCs always needing a Player Character to fix all their problems.

 

It's a wonder how anybody in Kirkwall got anything done before Hawke showed up.

[Milan92]

Silly NPCs always needing a Player Character to fix all their problems.

 

"Inquisitor! We need you to kill us a few bears and bring their hides!"

 

"Oh yeah, sure! Not like I got to close a few holes or solve a Mage Templar war or end the Orleasian civil war or anything. I'll do it!'

[Lenimph]

[Milan92]

I think the giggle would have worked beter after the warden failed.

[Lenimph]

http://fuckyeahvarri...om-for-one-tall

[Mistic]

More than likely because there's too much chaos happening as it is? Justinia can't show her support for someone or handle something if the country is in ruins from a civil war. There's a holy war happening, why wouldn't the Divine care about stopping a civil war?

 

Well, it wasn't a civil war, just a rebellion in Halamshiral. But yeah, maybe she just wanted Celene to be at her best, because both of them would need it to face the "real" problem of the Mage-Templar conflict (it wasn't a war yet).

 

Then it ended up in a real civil war. Damn.

 

Also everything Leliana says is pro-elf, which seemingly keeps being brushed to the side by you. Leliana expresses that the Divine respects the elves and does not agree with those who discriminate against them. Why would someone who thinks that way order them to have them slaughtered as you like to conveniently insinuate. It is not without reason to think that perhaps that if Celene asked for help with the elven rebellion over the mages that Orlais might not be in as big as a political mess as it is. 

 

That I have to agree with. TME proved that Leliana was pro-elven. Also, truth be told, a peasant uprising would be treated the same way in any era, elves or not. The Divine's words were the last straw, nothing more. Of course, the problem was that Celene had a plan already, but she herself thought it was insufficient. Maybe so, but she rushed and fell into Gaspard's hands. That was a mistake. A mistake that could have been prevented, because even Briala saw it coming.

 

I'm not saying Leliana is completely innocent. She chose to work for Justinia as her left hand. If that was a good or a bad idea it will depend on what you think of the Divine.

[LobselVith8]

I am not suggesting Leliana did not think that asking the question (not the message but question of reassurance) might make Celene result in taking violence. In fact I have already said that Leliana expresses concern for the elves because she felt it might lead to that multiple times. But the Divine is not telling Celene how to handle her own affairs, only to handle them, before the Divine helps her with the Mages. 

 

And given the inevitability of violence and death that would result, that's why I said I can see why an elven Inquisitor would take issue with Leliana in the hypothetical scenario where this meeting was revealed, which most likely won't even happen in-game.

 

Also everything Leliana says is pro-elf, which seemingly keeps being brushed to the side by you. Leliana expresses that the Divine respects the elves and does not agree with those who discriminate against them. Why would someone who thinks that way order them to have them slaughtered as you like to conveniently insinuate. It is not without reason to think that perhaps that if Celene asked for help with the elven rebellion over the mages that Orlais might not be in as big as a political mess as it is. 

 

I never said Leliana was anti-elf, I said she played a part in what happened to Halamshiral. That's it. I also pointed out her line about elves and her discomfort when she delivered the message, so I don't see how I painted her as anti-elf, either.

 

Also, Leliana never contests that the Divine isn't going to publicly say that the elves are deserving of the Maker's grace, so I'm not inclined to give Justinia much credit.

[Milan92]

Well, it wasn't a civil war, just a rebellion in Halamshiral. But yeah, maybe she just wanted Celene to be at her best, because both of them would need it to face the "real" problem of the Mage-Templar conflict (it wasn't a war yet).

 

Then it ended up in a real civil war. Damn.

 

I like to think of Celene and the Divine as Tywin Lannister during that situation.

[Lenimph]

And given the inevitability of violence and death that would result, that's why I said I can see why an elven Inquisitor would take issue with Leliana in the hypothetical scenario where this meeting was revealed, which most likely won't even happen in-game.

 

I never said Leliana was anti-elf, I said she played a part in what happened to Halamshiral. That's it. I also pointed out her line about elves and her discomfort when she delivered the message, so I don't see how I painted her as anti-elf, either.

 

Also, Leliana never contests that the Divine isn't going to publicly say that the elves are deserving of the Maker's grace, so I'm not inclined to give Justinia much credit.

Still going to disagree here. I don't see how Leliana speaking to her moments before Celene, noting positive things about the elves in almost a way to calm Celene, involves her in Celene's call on Halamshiral if anything I think it removes her from the action (it was not to say that you are saying she is anti-elf). The only way the Divine and Leliana could be involved in it is if the Divine told Celene to do what she did, which she did not. If the play had not insulted Celene the way it did, the Divine asking for her to take care of the elves before she acted on the mages would not have changed the plans she already made with Briala. 

 

Agreeing to disagree kthxbai

[TheLittleBird]

Leliana was involved in that she talked to Celene on behalf of the Divine and asked her to solve the conflict. I imagine she doesn't feel happy about the fact that that solution, in fact, meant the death of so many elves. But it wasn't her fault, because I don't think she though it'd end up this badly.

[Mistic]

And given the inevitability of violence and death that would result, that's why I said I can see why an elven Inquisitor would take issue with Leliana in the hypothetical scenario where this meeting was revealed, which most likely won't even happen in-game.

 

And why would an elven Inquisitor take issue? Remember that TME also points out that being Dalish =/= caring about the city elves. It's a matter of being pro-elf in general, not the race. Leliana cared more in the book than Thelhen did, and she is a human and Thelhen an elf.

 

I like to think of Celene and the Divine as Tywin Lannister during that situation.

 

I can't wait to play the game of thrones in DA:I. In Origins it was very entertaining. However, if that party Vivienne is going to throw happens to be a wedding, I'm running away

[Lenimph]

Leliana was involved in that she talked to Celene on behalf of the Divine and asked her to solve the conflict. I imagine she doesn't feel happy about the fact that that solution, in fact, meant the death of so many elves. But it wasn't her fault, because I don't think she though it'd end up this badly.

It's such a small  and unfair involvement. It would be like saying I helped a man kill someone because I drove the bus that got him to his hit spot.

[LobselVith8]

And why would an elven Inquisitor take issue? Remember that TME also points out that being Dalish =/= caring about the city elves. It's a matter of being pro-elf in general, not the race. Leliana cared more in the book than Thelhen did, and she is a human and Thelhen an elf.

 

Please tell me you didn't bring up Clan Caricature as an example of how the Dalish Inquisitor might act.

 

I was simply commenting on what happened, I wasn't trying to insinuate that Leliana is a supervillain.

[TheLittleBird]

It's such a small  and unfair involvement. I would be like saying I helped a man kill someone because I drove the bus that got him to his hit spot.

 

That's true. I actually think her involvement as seen by her is bigger than her actual involvement. If you understand what I mean

[Divine Justinia V]

Well, it wasn't a civil war, just a rebellion in Halamshiral. But yeah, maybe she just wanted Celene to be at her best, because both of them would need it to face the "real" problem of the Mage-Templar conflict (it wasn't a war yet).

 

Then it ended up in a real civil war. Damn.

 

A rebellion like that had the potentilal to turn into a civil war. 

[TheLittleBird]

Please tell me you didn't bring up Clan Caricature as an example of how the Dalish Inquisitor might act.

 

I was simply commenting on what happened, I wasn't trying to insinuate that Leliana is a supervillain.

 

I'd pay to see that.

 

"I came to Ferelden and the Chantry because I was being hunted. I walked where the Maker led me and he has rewarded me for my faith. I found you."

*evil laugh*

[Lenimph]

I'd pay to see that.

 

"I came to Ferelden and the Chantry because I was being hunted. I walked where the Maker led me and he has rewarded me for my faith. I found you."

*evil laugh*

But don't you know that Leliana is just an evil seductress all along and that she merely made the warden think she was in love with you as a super secret mission for the Chantry? Dorothea sent her to the Lothering Chantry for a reason 

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

The Divine just wanted to know what colour of undergarments the Warden wore. It was the plan all along.

 

To Leliana and the Dorothea's surprise, he/she wore the same ones as everybody else.

[TheLittleBird]

But don't you know that Leliana is just an evil seductress all along and that she merely made the warden think she was in love with you as a super secret mission for the Chantry? Dorothea sent her to the Lothering Chantry for a reason 

 

EVEN BETTER.

[Mistic]

Please tell me you didn't bring up Clan Caricature as an example of how the Dalish Inquisitor might act.

 

That's precisely what I did. After all, you said "might act", not "must act" or "should act", didn't you? Clan Virnehn may look like caricatures, but they are Dalish and their attitude, nasty as it was, wasn't in opposition to what we know of the Dalish. The Dalish Elves are a large enough group to have room for angels and demons. My point was that it wasn't a matter of being an elven Inquisitor or not, but about being pro-elf, since the lore itself supports other ways of understanding what being an elf in Thedas means.

 

I was simply commenting on what happened, I wasn't trying to insinuate that Leliana is a supervillain.

 

I know, I know. Let's be honest, we're all bored and would like to know our answers from the source, that is, Leliana herself in Dragon Age: Inquisition Must admit that since ME2 and Fire Emblem: Awakening I wasn't so hooked by a future release.

[Milan92]

But don't you know that Leliana is just an evil seductress all along and that she merely made the warden think she was in love with you as a super secret mission for the Chantry? Dorothea sent her to the Lothering Chantry for a reason 

 

Caramel pudding can't be evil. That's impossible.