523 réponses à ce sujet

[zambingo]

The fact a Mage can accidentally cut themselves and suddenly notice the magic in blood, aka blood magic (everyone goes duh), doesn't invalidate the Lore that says Blood Magic was learned from a demon.

How?

Perhaps Blood Magic exists due to a pact with a demon. It started somewhere.

If so, just because it exists doesn't let other mages who make additional pacts, for [insert reasons reasons], off the "made a deal with the devil" hook.

Also just because it exists shouldn't mean it's "good" and/or fine to use, considering it's Lore origins saying it comes from demons. It doesn't matter how you come to know it personally, it wouldn't change the origin.

However there is our beloved Grey Area here... the accidental discovery, the I did it to save Conner, the [insert reasons reasons] which don't have to involve directly making a pact with a demon. It's this grey area that Morrigan and Flemeth both scoff at in the games, but don't deny it (the morally cloudy ground) exists.

Morrigan and Flemeth in this narrative are the most versed and powerful magic users who hold unknown amounts of secrets about things, Flemeth more so than Morrigan obviously. So when both warn against dealing with demons, both acknowledge the morally grey areas, then we as players should cautiously take that advice.

To argue Blood Magic is fine and dandy within the established narrative is, quite frankly, lunacy.

[LobselVith8]

Also just because it exists shouldn't mean it's "good" and/or fine to use, considering it's Lore origins saying it comes from demons. It doesn't matter how you come to know it personally, it wouldn't change the origin.

The lore also says it came from Dumat, and some scholars speculate it may have been the elves; there are multiple (and conflicting) origin stories when it comes to the inception of blood magic.

To argue Blood Magic is fine and dandy within the established narrative is, quite frankly, lunacy.

It's stated by some that blood magic isn't inherently evil, despite how it can be misused. I'm wondering if necromancy will be the equivalent of blood magic - a forbidden school of magic, and what the specialization and ramifications of Rift Mage will entail.

[KainD]

The fact a Mage can accidentally cut themselves and suddenly notice the magic in blood, aka blood magic (everyone goes duh), doesn't invalidate the Lore that says Blood Magic was learned from a demon.

How?

Perhaps Blood Magic exists due to a pact with a demon. It started somewhere.

If so, just because it exists doesn't let other mages who make additional pacts, for [insert reasons reasons], off the "made a deal with the devil" hook.

Also just because it exists shouldn't mean it's "good" and/or fine to use, considering it's Lore origins saying it comes from demons. It doesn't matter how you come to know it personally, it wouldn't change the origin.

However there is our beloved Grey Area here... the accidental discovery, the I did it to save Conner, the [insert reasons reasons] which don't have to involve directly making a pact with a demon. It's this grey area that Morrigan and Flemeth both scoff at in the games, but don't deny it (the morally cloudy ground) exists.

Morrigan and Flemeth in this narrative are the most versed and powerful magic users who hold unknown amounts of secrets about things, Flemeth more so than Morrigan obviously. So when both warn against dealing with demons, both acknowledge the morally grey areas, then we as players should cautiously take that advice.

To argue Blood Magic is fine and dandy within the established narrative is, quite frankly, lunacy.

Since we don't know how blood magic originated it is no more valid to say that it originated from demons. I say mortals know blood better than demons, blood being a physical thing. I say demons are the ones that learned about blood magic from Arlathan and the magisters of old, and now they preserve that information as they live for a very long time.

[zambingo]

The narrative says it comes from demons, the narrative establishes alternate ways to learn it (providing a lovely moral quandary for everyone to deal with), the narrative says essentially "once you start down that path forever will it dominate your destiny", Dumat seems to have been involved, in DA2 Dumat is explained to have goaded the magisters into going to the Golden City, the Lore says going to the Golden City started this entire mess with Darkspawn etc.

What more do we need the games to tell us before we understand that Blood Magic is not fine and dandy?

[Kali073]

Hmm, I'm not all that happy with those mage specs (I usually play mage). I despised the Arcane warrior spec so I'll probably never even touch the knight enchanter spec - hopefully it's more about summoning otherworldy weapons (like conjuring weapons in Skyrim) than just picking up any sword. Necromancer also doesn't sound like my cup of tea - zombies are my least favourite game monster of all time - and sounds a bit evil. Rift mage... I have no idea what that means but I'll probably end up choosing it.

 

I'm still mourning the healer spec...

[Mistic]

It's stated by some that blood magic isn't inherently evil, despite how it can be misused. I'm wondering if necromancy will be the equivalent of blood magic - a forbidden school of magic, and what the specialization and ramifications of Rift Mage will entail.

 

Those some are very few, sadly, and there's no culture in Thedas that doesn't condemn blood magic officially, according to WoT (Tevinter included, despite their blatant hypocrisy).  Blood magic was initially a way to empower common spells, but since its particular uses as a separate school of magic sound terrible (using the blood of other to heal or empower yourself, open the Veil, summon demons, mind control), I have to say that I would join the "forbid blood magic" camp.

 

I'm also interested by those two specializations. Necromancy has been mentioned since the Mortalitasi were described in WoT, and the rift mage makes me think about powers from the veil, but maybe I'm mistaken.

[KainD]

The narrative says it comes from demons, the narrative establishes alternate ways to learn it (providing a lovely moral quandary for everyone to deal with), the narrative says essentially "once you start down that path forever will it dominate your destiny",

Where does the narrative say that? Show me. I'll happily agree with you. My stance has no personal opinion behind it, I treat blood magic like I do because that's how I understood the lore. I don't even like blood magic that much.

[zambingo]

WTH? LOL

Are you serious?

I will not lead you to water, time is precious, feel free peruse the games at your leisure. Everything I said was in them.

[LobselVith8]

The narrative says it comes from demons, the narrative establishes alternate ways to learn it (providing a lovely moral quandary for everyone to deal with), the narrative says essentially "once you start down that path forever will it dominate your destiny", Dumat seems to have been involved, in DA2 Dumat is explained to have goaded the magisters into going to the Golden City, the Lore says going to the Golden City started this entire mess with Darkspawn etc.

Chantry lore, sure, but we have debates because of Corypheus' revelations (from whether or not the City was already Black to whether the Magisters were even the first darkspawn if the City was already tainted, in conjunction with the first dwarven accounts of the darkspawn making no mention of darkspawn like Corypheus), so very little is certain.

What more do we need the games to tell us before we understand that Blood Magic is not fine and dandy?

It's a tool that can be abused and misused, but not necessarily so. I think the point is that some of us don't view blood magic as black and white. Merrill certainly doesn't delve into the darker aspects of the specialization, she doesn't misuse her blood magic to harm innocent people, or mind controlling others, and Jowan's destiny can result in becoming Master Levyn, protecting refugees during the Blight, so I don't see how it will dominate their destinies.

You're entitled to disagree, of course. This forum is a bastion of disagreement.

[zambingo]

Still have to step aside on the narrative/lore issue. I do not believe I'm misrepresenting stuff there, what I said is preached by the Chantry but excluding their dogma the base concepts are supported by Flemeth, Morrigan, Marethari, even Corypheus adds to it. Blood Magic is a path riddled with peril and with dark origins. It is presented that way consistently no matter who's talking to us.

I'm with you on the debate about the Golden City possibly being black already.

A possibility I enjoy about that is that both versions are totally correct.

How can that be so?

Like Obi-Wan says, it depends on your POV.

Assuming the Fade, the spirit realm, the Golden City, wherever The Maker (if exists, if one being etc) sat, all of it has an element of eternity... Time being wibbly wobbly... touching all parts of our linear existence at all times, but our linear existence only being able to see within our POV.

In that premise the Golden City could be corrupted by the Magisters entering it, but because of it's non-linear existence it changes almost instaneously at all times at all points. The magisters being a rock thrown into a still pool of water. The magisters POV is linear, when they see the Golden City it is Black. "WTH?!" They scream, "We've been tricked it's not golden it was destroyed when we got here." But it's actually their intrusion into an existence they aren't invited to that causes the destruction.

[KainD]

WTH? LOL

Are you serious?

I will not lead you to water, time is precious, feel free peruse the games at your leisure. Everything I said was in them.

Without proof, I will just take it as your opinion.

[Texhnolyze101]

I am disappointed with the lack of evolution with the warrior class.


This is quite possibly the silliest thing I have ever read.

 

Why exactly is it silly?

[Roninbarista]

I'm looking forward to playing as a mage, then as a rogue. The specializations, I hope will be enjoyable.

At a glance, necromance sounds creepy, dark, and dangerous. I'm curious to the spells. Rift mage sounds mysterious.

With the rogue I'm looking forward to uncovering what the artificer, and tempest specializations.

[Iron Star]

I'm having a hard time believing that Bioware would make two "summoner" specializations for mages. Perhaps they'll throw a curve ball and make necromancers not raising dead corpses, but my money is on rift mages not being about summoning demons and spirits. Perhaps it'll be more about taking advantage of the fade leaking into the real world, allowing the rift mage to "bend the rules" of the physical world? Think something like a somnari, but awake. Or maybe it'll be something more like the mesmer from GW2, casting illusions and playing mind games on enemies?

[twincast]

Staying out of the Blood Mage debate.

 

To be honest, if they make each spec more in depth than previous games, id encourage only one choice per character, it would imply better/more usage out of the specs and it would add "replayability" to the game

 

That (including world reactivity) was the stated goal when they first talked about it way back when DA3 still wasn't officially in development.

 

Most of the time Necromancy is about reanimating dead corpses and manipulating death, not spirits.

 

Not so in Thedas.

 

Tempest sounds cool, but Artificer sounds meh

 

As someone who never uses traps (because precious consumables), I gotta agree. And I'm rather disappointed that there doesn't seem to be a ranged combat specialization.

 

Sooo... I'm guessing Spirit Healer isn't a specialization? So every mage gets access to healing now?

 

Did everybody forget about the Creation spell list in DA:O? Plus, healing spells were confirmed shortly after the first presentation of DA:I gameplay.

 

Maybe Tempest is like a rogue-mage cross class?

 

My immediate mental image was of a flurry of blades, and I doubt that it is a semi-mage class, but it certainly seems possible. Since my standard RPG char is a half-elf rogue/sorcerer (albeit stealth-focused with relatively few offensive spells, i.e. arcane trickster) or nearest possible equivalent, that'd be great!

[cronshaw]

undead are corpses with spirits or demons in them

It is mentioned numerous times in game and in the codex

[Klavi]

I'm having a hard time believing that Bioware would make two "summoner" specializations for mages. Perhaps they'll throw a curve ball and make necromancers not raising dead corpses, but my money is on rift mages not being about summoning demons and spirits. Perhaps it'll be more about taking advantage of the fade leaking into the real world, allowing the rift mage to "bend the rules" of the physical world? Think something like a somnari, but awake. Or maybe it'll be something more like the mesmer from GW2, casting illusions and playing mind games on enemies?

Odds are, Rift Mages can just be something like Force Mages of DAI. Mainly a good old spell caster, but with access to some really fun and unique spells. So, Rift Mage is that, Knight-Enchanter is arcane warrior, and Necromancer is the summoner. Sounds pretty balanced, anyway.

 

 

Somewhat related to specializations: maybe we'll have a chance to acquire abilities /spells through our choices? Something of Avernus's lovely drink, but with more creepy deals and blood magic, for example.

[DarthSideus2]

Can't wait to hear more about the other 2 Mage specializations.

[GrayCloak21]

Odds are, Rift Mages can just be something like Force Mages of DAI. Mainly a good old spell caster, but with access to some really fun and unique spells.

 

I hope so. That's one of the reasons I loved playing the Force Mage in DA2.

[luckyloser_62]

So, since it seems like mages are getting a work around for class restricted weapons in the form of Knight Enchanter, do you think specializations for other classes may have similar workarounds. Maybe tempest allows rogues to dual wield swords. Maybe Templar will have a more developed quasi magical spirit bolt type attack that will serve as a ranged option. 

[SilkieBantam]

Can't image what a Rift Mage might be, I'll be very curious to hear more about it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I would love if rift mages worked like elizabeth's powers in bioshock infinite.

[Todd23]

I'm having a hard time believing that Bioware would make two "summoner" specializations for mages. Perhaps they'll throw a curve ball and make necromancers not raising dead corpses, but my money is on rift mages not being about summoning demons and spirits. Perhaps it'll be more about taking advantage of the fade leaking into the real world, allowing the rift mage to "bend the rules" of the physical world? Think something like a somnari, but awake. Or maybe it'll be something more like the mesmer from GW2, casting illusions and playing mind games on enemies?

So you think the rift mage will be some kind of Day-Dreamer?

[CENIC]

Rift Mage sounds very Inquisitory.

The Warrior specs are pretty straightforward, but I'm curious about Tempest. Hopefully the rogue specs will be useful for both dagger AND bow rogues this time around.

[Zets09]

Why do I feel like warriors are gonna be boring again like the previous games? plus there's nothing new from the warrior spec. Rouges, on the other hand, can outdamage warriors while still having utility skills. And Mages, well they're kinda OP ever since the first game. I usually go for warriors in my first play-through but maybe not this time