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#501
The Baconer

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Maybe with some combinations from another specialization, but on their own? They're really not.

 

In DA:O they have far and away the best CC move in the entire game, in DA:2 you can dump willpower for con and become the 2nd tankiest party member after Aveline and have a near-infinite resource pool to cast spells.

 

... and then there's the nuke that turns your massive HP into damage while healing you. And then there's the slam-dunk potential of Blood Slave.

 

While I won't say it's straight-up better than the utility offered by Force Mage, but I mean compared to a "normal mage" you get access to the same tools with a bunch of bonuses.



#502
Tremere

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Depends on the type of necromancy.

 

It could be the evil soul enslaving kind popularized in fantasy.

 

or the more grey mage simply animating an empty shell puppet with their own magic.

Or none of the above. ;)


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#503
Dermain

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KainD if you truly believe what you wrote, please go see a professional and talk to them about how you don't see problems harming people and things you don't care about if it benefits you.

 

Thankfully, most sociopaths are not violent...they're just assholes. The only way to attempt to "treat" a sociopath is to teach them more adaptive (beneficial) ways of interacting with other people which is usually hit or miss. On a side note, you can never have a discussion with a sociopath about what is "good" or "evil" because they don't recognize either of those.

 

 

In that case, there is no such thing as insanity.

 

Insanity is a legal term used to denote whether a person knew "right from wrong" during the commission of a crime. As such someone who is legally insane would murder someone, and not try to hide the fact that they killed them. So they would get angry at someone, kill that person, and then continue about their day as if nothing had happened. This is also the reason why the insanity defense is so hard to "prove" in American (since I only know of American) courts. Insanity has the connotation of "crazy" to the public, but it is not found as a psychological diagnosis in the Diagnositic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. So yes, you are correct there is no such thing as insanity.

 

Since I seem to have gone widely off topic...
 
 

Blood Mage as a spec is gone.

 

Blood Magic? We have no idea, if the pc has a means to use it, or not.

 

For the record, the Blood Mage spec is not gone because of evilness or anything like that. Since when being evil in a game is a problem? ? It's also debatable at best if it's gone because Bioware can't implement properly the concequences, since Necromancer doesn't sound like a saint with no repercussions either, at least socially.

 

If they put themselves in a bind, making Blood Mages have severe side-effects, then i have no idea why. Blood Mages, gameplay wise, will never be stronger than other mages, simply because of balance. So why go and make evil or whatever mages needing repercussions for something they cannot bring in a game anyway, is beyond me.


 
Which is probably one of the reasons blood mage was removed as a specialization. Regardless of whether it was "evil" or not blood mage player characters (and mage player characters in general) do not have access/are affected by what other mages are.
 
Blood mages in lore are said to be widely powerful, they can mind control another person, have easier access to the fade without the use of lyrium, can easily tear holes in the veil, can summon legions of demons (with poor results), etc. Yet the player character as a blood mage can't do any of this!
 
Deciding to be a blood mage (game play wise) basically gave you access to a small set of spells, no use in conversations, and is largely ignored by the rest of the story. Granted each class is usually ignored by the story besides the "Oh you're a mage/warrior/rogue!" lines that are rarely said by any of the NPCs.
 
 

 

Other than that, i never liked Blood Magic. If it's something so special, why is everyone and his mother one? If it's so common, why do we need a whole specialization dedicated to it? Just make it a tree, and be done with it. Or an ability you can have access to, through story and decisions.

 

Well most of the mages we run into in DA2 are apostates that are desperate enough to turn to blood magic. They of course pay the price of using blood magic by dying...mostly because they use it against the PC who by default usually has to kill them. If blood magic is "so powerful!" why do we always end up successfully killing them? It seems the only ones that benefit from the "power" of blood magic are the PCs simply because they are the PC and by default they are "awesome".  :rolleyes:


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#504
Dobyk

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Unless they're doing away with stat requirements on items, then you'd still need to get the "You can use your magic stat in place of strength" that Arcane Warriors got or else be required to waste a ton of stat points on being able to equip your armour.

 

Although it does sound a lot like it will be very similar to a defensive Arcane Warrior.

 

Judging purely from the small description paragraph, Knight Enchanter sounds very similar to how I used to play my Arcane Warrior in Origins. I just build Arcane Warrior + Spirit Healer and basically went full defense and healing, with tons of auras and buffs for the party, and nothing, nothing  but the Archdemon could hit my character! So I'm thinking Knight Enchanter would be the tank/support/buffer-healer build for mages. Not that all mages won't have access to healing, but as a defensive specialization it sounds like it will synergize very well with healing and buffing spells. Although I'm not sure exactly whether we will actually equip proper heavy armor and weapons. It sounds more like we will rely on passive buffs and defensive magics instead of armor (like Arcane Warrior really). And I am SO hoping we will conjure our very own energy blade! Jedi powaaaa in Dragon Age :P  But yeah, so far this must be one of the best news for me as a player, since I thoroughly enjoy defensive and supportive mage builds, gives me a sense of being a true leader and protector of my companions. Yet, Rift Mage does sound very interesting, maybe it will be a tempting alternative :P

And with mages being the only class in the game that has actual access to healing, the only decent option for a "cleric" build in Dragon Age is either Spirit Healer or Arcane Warrior/Knight Enchanter.



#505
Adhin

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Well, I believe class no longer restricts armor type but only weapon. And unless they bring back attributes (heres hoping) and heavily tie that into the armor requirements again (kinda hope not, that was a bit much) you should be able to throw armor on your mage either way. If Warrior's still can't dual wield (99.9% sure they can't, atm but who knows, E3 could be a surprise) and Tempest is real snazzy sounding I may end up just making a tank rogue. Throw em in heavy armor and go crazy town with daggers.



#506
azarhal

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Well, I believe class no longer restricts armor type but only weapon. And unless they bring back attributes (heres hoping) and heavily tie that into the armor requirements again (kinda hope not, that was a bit much) you should be able to throw armor on your mage either way. If Warrior's still can't dual wield (99.9% sure they can't, atm but who knows, E3 could be a surprise) and Tempest is real snazzy sounding I may end up just making a tank rogue. Throw em in heavy armor and go crazy town with daggers.

 

Why do they have to bring back attributes? They were still in DA2, including the armor requirements stuff.



#507
Dobyk

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Well, I believe class no longer restricts armor type but only weapon. And unless they bring back attributes (heres hoping) and heavily tie that into the armor requirements again (kinda hope not, that was a bit much) you should be able to throw armor on your mage either way. If Warrior's still can't dual wield (99.9% sure they can't, atm but who knows, E3 could be a surprise) and Tempest is real snazzy sounding I may end up just making a tank rogue. Throw em in heavy armor and go crazy town with daggers.

 

It can be annoying, but I think having no attribute requirements for armor is a bit cheap to be honest. Why would I put a robe on my mage then, unless it has very powerful enchantments? Plus, with certain specializations, like Arcane Warrior, you could bypass and swap prerequisite attributes. You can wear whatever you want, but it doesn't make sense if you PC is flimsy and physically weak and suddenly starts wearing plate armor. Like, seriously, it's weird xD



#508
KainD

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It can be annoying, but I think having no attribute requirements for armor is a bit cheap to be honest. Why would I put a robe on my mage then, unless it has very powerful enchantments? Plus, with certain specializations, like Arcane Warrior, you could bypass and swap prerequisite attributes. You can wear whatever you want, but it doesn't make sense if you PC is flimsy and physically weak and suddenly starts wearing plate armor. Like, seriously, it's weird xD


It's the fatigue. Spells just cost more mana while wearing heavy armor, because both are physical strain. Other than that, no other problems.
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#509
Adhin

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@azarhal: Yeah they had super scaled down attributes is what I meant by 'bring them back'. They went full on Diablo-esk with DA2 when it came to that. And your class 100% determined your damage derived stat which causes a whole lot less variation in builds. You basically have Fighter Class DMG stat, Rogue DMG stat, Mage DMG stat and Health. So everyone took there main stat and health. There was no major benefit for stacking any of them for other classes.

 

@Dobyk: As KainD has pointed out, a penalty for heavier armors. The lighter you go, the less stamina costs. You can tank up as a mage all you want, attribute requirements or not, but you can have penalties involved to make it a trade off. For an example, while rogues are kinda designed with medium armor in mind I may make one that wares heavy armor with out any of the stealth stuff if Tempest is the kinda specialization I think it'll be. That is instead of making a Warrior since they lack dual wielding, i'd like to be able to tank up my Rogue a bit. Sure he wont have some of the more primary tank skills to keep aggro on him BUT he could be a hell of a skirmisher.

 

In the end all that kind of stuff can be balanced out to some extent, being in super heavy armor isn't always the best option... that's what RPG's are about, choice, and having those choices have pros and cons. That's one reason im heavily opposed to the heavy weapon restrictions, it's just another dickpunch to customization and character concepts. Concept, I may point out they have in there lore and stories... they just aren't allowing us, the players, to make characters like that.


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#510
azarhal

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@azarhal: Yeah they had super scaled down attributes is what I meant by 'bring them back'. They went full on Diablo-esk with DA2 when it came to that. And your class 100% determined your damage derived stat which causes a whole lot less variation in builds. You basically have Fighter Class DMG stat, Rogue DMG stat, Mage DMG stat and Health. So everyone took there main stat and health. There was no major benefit for stacking any of them for other classes.

 

DAO worked like that too though, unless you wanted to use a specific item that required more of your not-class related stat.



#511
Adhin

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So I was partially wrong there sorry about that. Looks like DA2 had same attributes as DAO it just heavily stream lined STR/DEX/MAG which is what I ultimately was talking about. Basically, DAO was far more open/split in what its attributes did. Each weapon had a split in dmg of str/dex depending on the kind. Daggers for instance had an even split between dex and strength, and total combined was a bit less then a sword for instance. Every attribute, ultimately, was useful for every class. Some just had more benefit depending on what you where going for. Well except most mage stuff. They're always the odd outlier.

 

Magic attribute (which I think is a dumb attribute) helped Mental Resistance for everyone but ultimately just buffed spell dmg and didn't help Fighter/Rogue in anyway outside of that mental res which wasn't super useful. That and Willpower also increased Mental Resist the same amount and was useful for all classes as it determined total Stamina/Mana. Ultimately, outside of the magic attribute every class had a reason to raise every stat unless they where doing some heavy focus or a very specific build.

 

DA2 still had all of em but they stream line and forced the issue more then in DAO. Instead of each attribute contributing 'something' to every class (except mages cause... mages, unless you go arcane warrior of course). For example Strength, effects Warrior weapons only, Warrior skills only, increase attack for warriors only. The only thing it does to a Rogue or a Mage is increase Fortitude. Same with Dex/Magic. They force these stats to be extremely one sided instead of a little more... open ended I guess.



#512
Lulupab

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Rift mage seems interesting. Possibly its the spec I always wanted for the mages. A mage using spirits to gain power and not just for healing like spirit healers but for offense too. Somehow like Anders but much more in control.



#513
KainD

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Rift mage seems interesting. Possibly its the spec I always wanted for the mages. A mage using spirits to gain power and not just for healing like spirit healers but for offense too. Somehow like Anders but much more in control.

 

I don't think Rift mage has anything to do with spirits, that's more along the lines of necromancy. If you want to be an abomination in control, then sure, I wouldn't mind that too, but almost certain it's not going to happen. 



#514
Lulupab

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I don't think Rift mage has anything to do with spirits, that's more along the lines of necromancy. If you want to be an abomination in control, then sure, I wouldn't mind that too, but almost certain it's not going to happen. 

 

No I don't want to be an "abomination" in control per se, there is a clear difference between bonding with a spirit temporarily and merging with it permanently. Rift mage possibly uses the fade in a way and I think since its obviously not demons it might as well be benevolent beings of the fade. Then again I could be completely wrong as there is no real information. Also the lack of spirit healer suggests rift mage might have healing capabilities which as the lore states is only enhanced by spirits of the fade.



#515
KainD

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No I don't want to be an "abomination" in control per se, there is a clear difference between bonding with a spirit temporarily and merging with it permanently. Rift mage possibly uses the fade in a way and I think since its obviously not demons it might as well be benevolent beings of the fade. Then again I could be completely wrong as there is no real information. Also the lack of spirit healer suggests rift mage might have healing capabilities which as the lore states is only enhanced by spirits of the fade.

 

Right, no, we will not get anything similar to spirit healer because of the new health system that now doesn't let us heal indifferently. 



#516
Adhin

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Yeah I'm curious how they're going to limit mage heals outside of just cooldowns. Mage heals still exist so... guess they could just be super expensive mana wise or its just a heavy CD or something. Either way the biggest hit is potions have a limited carrying capacity and you can only craft at crafting stations. So no mid-dragon fight crafting up 50+ potions cause you where running low heh.



#517
Lulupab

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Right, no, we will not get anything similar to spirit healer because of the new health system that now doesn't let us heal indifferently.

 
I know that but there will be healing and support of some sort in the game, I think I read somewhere that the emphasis will be on buffs rather than healing, Perhaps absorbing damage will be more dominant that healing it. I'm almost certain Rift mage is a support spec in a way.

#518
KainD

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Yeah I'm curious how they're going to limit mage heals outside of just cooldowns. Mage heals still exist so... guess they could just be super expensive mana wise or its just a heavy CD or something. Either way the biggest hit is potions have a limited carrying capacity and you can only craft at crafting stations. So no mid-dragon fight crafting up 50+ potions cause you where running low heh.

 

Every played Tekken Tag? 



#519
KainD

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I know that but there will be healing and support of some sort in the game, I think I read somewhere that the emphasis will be on buffs rather than healing, Perhaps absorbing damage will be more dominant that healing it. I'm almost certain Rift mage is a support spec in a way.

 

Knight enchanter seems like a buff/tank/support. Necromancer seems like the summoner/debuff/support. Rift mage kinda seems like the only offensive spec. But I might be wrong. 



#520
Adhin

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Yeah though I don't know what that has to do with DAI limited potions and mage heal spells. Unless you mean swapping party members out mid combat (or mid dungeon). I doubt that's a thing... least I really hope it's not a thing. I mean if you can do that why the **** isn't all 10 of you fighting at once, knida bullshit to have 6 dudes sitting around in the background twiddling there thumbs like a bad wrestling match on TV.



#521
Kage

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If I had to guess, it would be:

 

  • Champion: Grey Warden
  • Templar: Cassandra
  • Reaver: Iron Bull
  • Artificer: Varric (duh)
  • Assassin: Cole
  • Tempest: Sera
  • Knight Enchanter: Dorian
  • Necromancer: Solas
  • Rift Mage: Vivienne

 

 

Oh, no way!

Dorian was a Tevinter Magister, right? Even if he is a renegade, I would totally give him Necromancy.

And Solas is an expert in the Fade.... That screams Rift Mage for me!

So Vivienne will have to be the Knight Enchanter, which does not need to be exactly like an Arcane Warrior.

 

The rest I fully agree! Nice post!



#522
Kage

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Why do they have to bring back attributes? They were still in DA2, including the armor requirements stuff.

 

I guess he means bring them back in a meaningfull way.

In Dragon Age 2, STR, INT and DEX were exactly the same attribute, it was just a reflection of the class. They could have just changed them all to "POWER" or something like that, and it would have been the same.

 

In DA2 there was really not much of a choice when developing your character. Being mana and stamina irrelevant due to endless potions (you got more potions the more you used them, up to a cap depending on your difficulty), and being the best strat by far to do more damage instead of resisting it, due to endless waves of mobs, everybody pretty much ended putting all points in "power" and some in the secondary stat (wisdom/const) just to be able to equip.



#523
Finnn62

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Well, I'm just excited to smite more enemies as a templar again :D 



#524
In Exile

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I guess he means bring them back in a meaningfull way.

In Dragon Age 2, STR, INT and DEX were exactly the same attribute, it was just a reflection of the class. They could have just changed them all to "POWER" or something like that, and it would have been the same.

 

In DA2 there was really not much of a choice when developing your character. Being mana and stamina irrelevant due to endless potions (you got more potions the more you used them, up to a cap depending on your difficulty), and being the best strat by far to do more damage instead of resisting it, due to endless waves of mobs, everybody pretty much ended putting all points in "power" and some in the secondary stat (wisdom/const) just to be able to equip.

 

The attributes were equally meaningless in DA:O. Dumping points in CON or WIS was a waste. Mages only needed MAG. Warriors had an STR build and a DEX build if you went S/S. Rogues had STR, DEX and CUN builds. That was it.


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